The Turbos+EU5+LiftKit thread

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by RSXDC5

Local shop has recently had multiple sets of Kratos fail, the evo's I believe…this was on built and non-built engines.

Really surprised me to hear this but want to pass it along to the community.

To set the record straight, this information is simply not true. One of the 2 sets of EVO's from a dealer of ours in Arizona failed due to loss of oil lubrication to the turbo and the other set did not fail. The one set that failed due to loss off oil lubrication to one turbocharger happened immediately after install and was replaced free of charge, even though it was a non-warranty failure. This set has been back on the car since August running strong with no issues. This was the stock engine car.

The second set on the built engine never failed or showed any signs of smoking, loss of power, noise, etc. Customer had issues with boost target which can be attributed to quite a few things outside the turbo unit failing. So, to state that this set has failed is just not true.

This same local Arizona shops has installed and sold quite a few sets of KRATOS turbos over the years that are all performing well including a set of KRAS55Bi's that have been in the owner's personal M4 for over 2 1/2 years now. Not posting all the details and just stating that a local shop in Arizona had several sets fail is very misleading.

[RSXDC5]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

To set the record straight, this information is simply not true. One of the 2 sets of EVO's from a dealer of ours in Arizona failed due to loss of oil lubrication to the turbo and the other set did not fail. The one set that failed due to loss off oil lubrication to one turbocharger happened immediately after install and was replaced free of charge, even though it was a non-warranty failure. This set has been back on the car since August running strong with no issues. This was the stock engine car.

The second set on the built engine never failed or showed any signs of smoking, loss of power, noise, etc. Customer had issues with boost target which can be attributed to quite a few things outside the turbo unit failing. So, to state that this set has failed is just not true.

This same local Arizona shops has installed and sold quite a few sets of KRATOS turbos over the years that are all performing well including a set of KRAS55Bi's that have been in the owner's personal M4 for over 2 1/2 years now. Not posting all the details and just stating that a local shop in Arizona had several sets fail is very misleading.

You are correct, I should have been more specific in my wording, but I do not have all details and provided what I did have.

TY for the commentary/response.

Can you expand on what WOULD cause (high?)boost target issues in the turbo units themselves (short of an actual failure)?

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by RSXDC5

You are correct, I should have been more specific in my wording, but I do not have all details and provided what I did have.

TY for the commentary/response.

Can you expand on what WOULD cause (high?)boost target issues in the turbo units themselves (short of an actual failure)?

No problem at all, glad we were able to clarify things!

High WGDC target issues, not related to turbo failures, are usually caused by boost leaks or actuators not being calibrated within the required tolerance. This can then create failure issues if continually pushed or driven hard since the turbocharger would be operating in an overspeed condition. Of course, a damaged rotor group with blades or material missing from the compressor/turbine wheel, as a result of it becoming elliptic, can also cause high WGDC target or very sluggish response. However, in the turbo failure case you will typically hear significant howling and see quite a bit of smoking if those conditions were present.

[Commanderwiggin]

Stock rods have bent on stock turbos as some food for thought.

[Wanted_M]

Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin

Stock rods have bent on stock turbos as some food for thought.

Interesting, was that due to poor tuning or too much TQ down low?

[Commanderwiggin]

Originally Posted by Wanted_M

Interesting, was that due to poor tuning or too much TQ down low?

A friend of mine wanted to push everything to the limit so yes, all the torque.

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin

A friend of mine wanted to push everything to the limit so yes, all the torque.

Jeez… Good warning that stock motor and stock turbos can be pushed too far with a tune.

I've seen other guys talk around it (blame a tuner) instead of just saying they asked for more power.

[TopJimmy]

I got the M4 back from BMB and am going through a soft break-in, but this build is INSANE! Even on a base tune power comes on like a monster. Once the weather gets warm enough for tires to stick we're headed for "Ludicrous Speed". Lookin' for 9.xxET in the 1/4mi. Was 10.8@124 before engine build.

The build as it is now:
F82 Exec, Mineral White, Silverstone, Tint
Kratos KRAS55EVOs with TurboSmart filters
CP Carrillo rods, coated pistons, studs
BMB CNC head, 1-piece Hub and CBC
SuperTech valves and springs
EOS manifold smoothed & polished by Me
Dorch Engineering hi-lift vacuum pump kit
Bosch EU5 (250cc) injectors cleaned by RC
Flex-Fuel plugs, 4 & 3.5-bar sensors, BMCs
Dodson SP+, XHP, PowerFlex, Rogue, DSS
ARM Silicone CPs and ceramic Res DPs
Vargas line-lock, Apex wheels, Hoosier DR2s
Tunes by F80Paul (93 street & E85 drag)
Build work by Billy Mason, BMB Autowerks
Fueled by VP and Stinger Racing Fuels
Lubed with Motul 300V 5w30 (2K OCI)

Special thank yous for great advice to
Carguy1994 landonvan FriedPiston F80MGod Commanderwiggin chetrickerman whitstap edycol Sales@KRATOS mike@x-ph.com and F80Paul

[MJ6]

TopJimmy

Psyched for your build results man.
Ludicrous speed ahead!

[E92inSG]

I just had my car tuned on the new EU5 injectors (stock pumps) by Bend Calibration on Ecutek. After the initial EU5 calibration I logged a couple of pulls on the street to ensure the calibration was fine, fuel trims were spot on.

We then put the car on a local Mustang dyno for remote tuning (I'm in Asia), and picked up about 40whp from the base EU5 calibration on E65. That's about the limit of my fueling even with port injected meth. In any case I'm super happy with the results and more than recommend Bend Calibration to anyone who might be looking to go a different route than BM3/ MHD. Will save some money on the fuel pump upgrades lol

Setup: Built bottom end, PS2 HF, PI Meth, M5 injectors, E65

Sorry the times are all 100-200kmh, we deal with metric here.

[whitstap]

Beautiful Jimmy stoked for ya enjoy be safe

[M4Viper]

Hello All,
Ok so goal is to join the 1000+whp club.

Current setup:
Kratos Evos (TurboSmart oil filters)
CarBahn Stage 3 engine (CBC)
EOS w/fueling intake manifold with Port Injection
950cc Injectors (New)
Motiv ReFlex+
BMS 4 Bar TMAP
SSP Spec R Clutches
Snow 2.5 WMI kit (50/50)
Fuel-It Stage 4 fuel pump (replaced secondary pump Walbro 450 to 525)
Fuel-It Fuel-Lab FPR set to 65psi on idle (Will be upgrading new FPR)
Fuel return system
Hobbs Switch at 13psi to trigger secondary pump
Dinan heat exchanger
CSF top intercooler
CSF DCT Cooler
Stock DI EU6
Stock HPFPs
Eldor Coils (500 miles)
NGK 2 Step Cold 97506 (.018) (500 miles)
Full E85 tune

Please check datalog and see if there's any issues...boost leak, fueling, etc...

E sensor indicates E80+...pump E mixed with E98

Base Map:
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=621b...90c627e152dbf8

950cc flow report

[TopJimmy]

M4Viper looks like a nice build! Instead of M5 injectors you have OEM plus PI and WMI. That's a lot of fueling.

I wonder how Mile High affects your power output. Maybe get over to the Springs and let Rickerman dyno it.

Since you have an advanced build I can't really comment on the logs. Things look pretty good from my novice eye.

[M4Viper]

TopJimmy
Rickerman Tune is few blocks from me.
Will be great to have a map tuned by Chet…and will very soon.
Car was leaning out, Chet and Billy Orton (ColoradoN5X) gave valuable pointers. Finally got the fueling system issues resolved.

Have a long overdue map with Paul and I can't cancel the tune. Will be finishing this map with Paul on a dyno tune in 2-3 weeks.

Looking forward to see your awesome built also.

Thank you

[TopJimmy]

Finally finished the daily driver 93 tune with Paul. The E50 tune just began. The winter and cold dragged on, and this car needs warm tires not to be deadly. Finally this week brought a little good weather. Here's a video with some ear candy for you, and a quick clip from the rained-out dragstrip car show. Engine pix…

Hopefully this coming weekend brings home some low time slips.

[E92inSG]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

Finally finished the daily driver 93 tune with Paul. The E50 tune just began. The winter and cold dragged on, and this car needs warm tires not to be deadly. Finally this week brought a little good weather. Here's a video with some ear candy for you, and a quick clip from the rained-out dragstrip car show. Engine pix…

Hopefully this coming weekend brings home some low time slips.

What a sleeper! looking forward to some good results!

[TopJimmy]

Just an update… I finished the 93 map with Paul and then we went for an E50 map, but the stock LPFP had trouble keeping up. I was getting HPFP crashes and sputter at the top of gears. At least I got a 10.45ET out of it.

Then we reduced the mix to E45…no sputter but LPFP was still falling near 40PSI and the HPFPs had a little trouble staying on target. When we reduced the mix to E40 the LPFP maintains about 50PSI even during the hardest use, and HPFPs stay on or above target.

The summary: with a stock/OEM LPFP the hottest E-mix is E40 for supplying big turbos+Dorch+EU5 injectors. I was hoping for E50, it's easier to mix.

After I get these 2 tunes polished up I hope the E40 mix will get me a 9.xxET pass. Kies will also dyno both my tunes with Paul doing some glory tweaks.

[Wanted_M]

^^Nice run Jimmy but you need moar fuel to release the Shirley Kraken

[astris]

Originally Posted by BYT_M4C

I read through the installation instructions for that lift pump kit, WOW! If you are doing this mod and haven't addressed the crank hub in anyway, this would be the perfect opportunity to knock out both things at the same time!

Edit, sorry, wasn't addressed to you Jimmy! I meant for anyone reading this considering the lift pump upgrade.

Originally Posted by Bluer2

shit might as well do a turbo upgrade at the same time. kill 3 birds with one stone.

Haven't seen the instructions. Is there really that much overlap? Was going to do this in separate phases just due to up front cost, but if it's going to save a bunch of time in labor costs, I might just have to rethink things.

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by astris

Haven't seen the instructions. Is there really that much overlap? Was going to do this in separate phases just due to up front cost, but if it's going to save a bunch of time in labor costs, I might just have to rethink things.

You need to get the manifold out to access the HPFPs, and then the Vac Pump below them. It seems you need a LPFP to run higher than E40. Might as well be one big build.

[astris]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

You need to get the manifold out to access the HPFPs, and then the Vac Pump below them. It seems you need a LPFP to run higher than E40. Might as well be one big build.

Chatted with Bend and they said weren't really happy with any of the aftermarket LPFPs out there and mentioned testing something new. Didn't get any details though.

[heitzke]

That's all really good to know TopJimmy re: the LPFP. When I talked to Bend a while back (before the Cobra motor started having issues) they were suggesting to use the PR LPFP setups - but now that I look at their site they now have a Stage 3 brushless option?

I pinged them via email to learn more, but that seems interesting.

Anyway, looking forward to you getting the 9's out of your setup once the tune is all wrapped up!