Preferred track setting - DSC, MDM or OFF?

[97supratt]

I gotta be honest, I don't know what MDM is but turn everything OFF! If you know what you're doing the f80 rewards you. If you don't, you're toast but it's managable haha unlike some other cars (ferrari, porsche, lambo, etc).

Get a proper alignment, change the pads, and practice with the f80.

[ptyf80]

I just bought my f80 on June 16, coming from a Lexus ISF i can tell that this car is something else. I got it with 7,000miles and loaded with Dinan S2, M Performance Titatunium Exhaust, fabspeed downpipes and x-pipe (these last two are not installed currently, since with the downpipes previous owner got an "overboost check message" during a track day.

I used to track my ISF and the M3 will be used for the same. So on july the first went to our local (only one track in the entire country, I live in Panama). Got the car with the second pair os wheels (also came with the car), i removed the hoosiers that were installed and installed a DOT Toyo´s R888R 245 35 19 and 275 35 19.

first laps took it slowly and used DSC full on, but its amazing how much power get lost when DSC is on, so a few laps later switched to MDM. I think tires were too narrow because the car was power sliding all over the place, so DSC full off was not an option.... at least for now.

Maybe in my next track day with wider tires ( im considering going to 18 with 10.5 and 11 wheels and 275 35 and 305 30 with maybe the same R888R´s or might evaluate NT01 or even but expensier Trofeo´s R.

I need more grip and then ill will turn the DSC full off.

Thoughts???

This is my first post. here is a video of a few laps during that track day

PTYF80
2016 F80 M3 - Mineral Gray - DinanS2
Panama City, Panama

[MasterP]

It is faster with DSC and MDM off.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ptyf80

Toyo´s R888R 245 35 19 and 275 35 19.

I need more grip and then ill will turn the DSC full off.

I think it's worth it to use your current tires and figure it out. More grip just means you'll be going faster when the power oversteer happens?

[ptyf80]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I think it's worth it to use your current tires and figure it out. More grip just means you'll be going faster when the power oversteer happens?

they´re gone, i used on two track days with the ISF and on this one with the F80 they ended up almost as a slick tire. So anyways i need to buy replacement ones.

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I think it is a question of perception. I actually prefer the Sport+ engine setting for the track. I find it more direct, immediate and precise which allows me to better control the attitude of the car, whereas Sport has some artificial dampening in the response.

IMO, the Sport+ engine setting can only be truly enjoyed with DSC completely off.

On tight turns Sport Plus dumps too much torque imo, where with Sport i can get on the power much earlier without upsetting the car!
The Support plus makes the throttle too sensitive like a on off switch

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by anglo

On tight turns Sport Plus dumps too much torque imo, where with Sport i can get on the power much earlier without upsetting the car!
The Support plus makes the throttle too sensitive like a on off switch

That's the thing, your foot might "be getting on the throttle earlier", but the engine is not delivering the power any earlier because of the damping effect, so what's the point? I rather have my foot control the power delivery than the software, like this I can get either smooth or sharp transitions depending on what I want. Sport+ is far from being an on/off switch, it is in fact very linear, but it does respond immediately to any movement. It is only a question of properly calibrating your right foot.

As a tidbit, I often notice that when students struggle with smooth throttle control it is related to the foot position on the throttle pedal. On throttle pedals that are hinged at the bottom like we have on our cars, it is preferable to have the entire foot resting flat on the pedal with the heel against the hinge. If the heel is away from the hinge with only the toes pressing on the middle of the pedal, a smaller foot movement will result in a larger pedal movement making it more difficult to be precise. Also, it is difficult to position the heel at exactly the same distance from the pedal when the foot is moved from the brake to the throttle, so depending on the heel position, a different foot movement will result in a different pedal movement, making it very challenging to program muscle memory. Further, when the heel rest away from the hinge, the toes need to slip up and down the pedal as the pedal is moved and the friction between the shoe sole and the pedal can cause jerkiness in the movement. Might not be the case for you, but worthwhile mentioning.

[Caliboy951]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

So - what is your preferred track setting? Full DSC, MDM or DSC fully off?

This depends on your driving skill and ability. My advice is to get used to the track in MDM mode and once you're comfortable with the track then turn everything off.
This is what I did and now I'm turning laps fast enough to get 2 different companies to sponsor my car (Torco Oils and Bimmerworld).

Get used to the track then unleash the hounds!!!

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Never going 10/10ths, and not using data to benchmark will also make it difficult to learn and progress

And, if we are being honest, starting to track in a powerful car like f80 makes the learning curve steeper

I don't need to go 10/10s to have fun, it's not like we are pro racing drivers. I drive hard where there is room..when there is a wall or other hazard, I back off especially with an expensive road car

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Kbueno

I don't need to go 10/10s to have fun, it's not like we are pro racing drivers. I drive hard where there is room..when there is a wall or other hazard, I back off especially with an expensive road car

Agreed on all counts.

That's why I decided to stop tracking in expensive road cars and go to cheapo competition cars, so I can improve myself with less $ on the line and with more safety

My personal revelation came when I borrowed my brother's GT4 at mosport and I was only keeping up with a Miata NC modified to mx5 cup specification. I was driving hard where there was room and backed off in the sketchier areas like T2 and the result was mx5 cup caliber of times in a Gt4

Edit: Aiming to do my first endurance race this sept. Should be super fun. Fingers crossed.

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Agreed on all counts.

That's why I decided to stop tracking in expensive road cars and go to cheapo competition cars, so I can improve myself with less $ on the line and with more safety

My personal revelation came when I borrowed my brother's GT4 at mosport and I was only keeping up with a Miata NC modified to mx5 cup specification. I was driving hard where there was room and backed off in the sketchier areas like T2 and the result was mx5 cup caliber of times in a Gt4

That's a very smart move..I need to do the same.

[shaftwhy]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That's the thing, your foot might "be getting on the throttle earlier", but the engine is not delivering the power any earlier because of the damping effect, so what's the point? I rather have my foot control the power delivery than the software, like this I can get either smooth or sharp transitions depending on what I want. Sport+ is far from being an on/off switch, it is in fact very linear, but it does respond immediately to any movement. It is only a question of properly calibrating your right foot.

As a tidbit, I often notice that when students struggle with smooth throttle control it is related to the foot position on the throttle pedal. On throttle pedals that are hinged at the bottom like we have on our cars, it is preferable to have the entire foot resting flat on the pedal with the heel against the hinge. If the heel is away from the hinge with only the toes pressing on the middle of the pedal, a smaller foot movement will result in a larger pedal movement making it more difficult to be precise. Also, it is difficult to position the heel at exactly the same distance from the pedal when the foot is moved from the brake to the throttle, so depending on the heel position, a different foot movement will result in a different pedal movement, making it very challenging to program muscle memory. Further, when the heel rest away from the hinge, the toes need to slip up and down the pedal as the pedal is moved and the friction between the shoe sole and the pedal can cause jerkiness in the movement. Might not be the case for you, but worthwhile mentioning.

Just tried this today on public roads and wasn't very successful.

My usual heel position is in front of brake pedal (or very close). When I switch between brake and throttle back and forth I don't change heel position at all. I just flip my foot over with heel as an anchor.

This position has a few advantages to me:
1. Hard to mistake throttle for brake (for public road) because they have different foot positions. Brake is forward and hard, throttle is a little side way and gentle.
2. Quick switch between brake and throttle as heel doesn't need to move.
3. Consistent heel position on track. Since the switch from brake to throttle normally happens mid-turn (trail brake) with quite a bit lateral g, keeping heel anchored helps to achieve consistent movement from brake pedal to throttle pedal. Before using this position, I have experienced quite a few switches with inconsistent heel position which gave totally wrong feeling sometimes. Similar applies switch from throttle to brake: If the heel position changes during brake, then it is harder to modulate the brake, especially for trail brake.

I understand if you always anchor the heel against throttle hinge, then the heel position for throttle is indeed consistent. However it doesn't really give a consistent heel position for brake. Also it really feels the switch between pedals is slower as you need to find different heel positions for brake and throttle. Also for me, I can have too much movement and end up stepping on the foot well a little bit as well.

CanAutM3 , any further tips for this?

I suppose the best might be left foot braking so each foot has its permanent anchor

[jacobe92]

Originally Posted by Caliboy951

This depends on your driving skill and ability. My advice is to get used to the track in MDM mode and once you're comfortable with the track then turn everything off.
This is what I did and now I'm turning laps fast enough to get 2 different companies to sponsor my car (Torco Oils and Bimmerworld).

Get used to the track then unleash the hounds!!!

. Great. Also, who did your partial vinyl wrap? Thanks

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by shaftwhy

Just tried this today on public roads and wasn't very successful.

My usual heel position is in front of brake pedal (or very close). When I switch between brake and throttle back and forth I don't change heel position at all. I just flip my foot over with heel as an anchor.

This position has a few advantages to me:
1. Hard to mistake throttle for brake (for public road) because they have different foot positions. Brake is forward and hard, throttle is a little side way and gentle.
2. Quick switch between brake and throttle as heel doesn't need to move.
3. Consistent heel position on track. Since the switch from brake to throttle normally happens mid-turn (trail brake) with quite a bit lateral g, keeping heel anchored helps to achieve consistent movement from brake pedal to throttle pedal. Before using this position, I have experienced quite a few switches with inconsistent heel position which gave totally wrong feeling sometimes. Similar applies switch from throttle to brake: If the heel position changes during brake, then it is harder to modulate the brake, especially for trail brake.

I understand if you always anchor the heel against throttle hinge, then the heel position for throttle is indeed consistent. However it doesn't really give a consistent heel position for brake. Also it really feels the switch between pedals is slower as you need to find different heel positions for brake and throttle. Also for me, I can have too much movement and end up stepping on the foot well a little bit as well.

CanAutM3 , any further tips for this?

I suppose the best might be left foot braking so each foot has its permanent anchor

So you're saying that you are pressing on the throttle pedal with you right foot angled to the side with the heel in front of the brake pedal? No wonder you find Sport+ too jerky .

Ideally, your foot should not be hinged at the heel when threshold braking. The heel should be off the footwell with the ball of the foot firmly planted on the brake pedal so you can use your entire leg muscles to apply force and use the finer calf muscles to control modulation. Further, with the heel off the footwell, it is much easier to quickly flick the heel to the right to blip the throttle when downshifting while the ball of the foot stays firmly on the brake to not vary braking force in the process.

[Caliboy951]

Originally Posted by jacobe92

. Great. Also, who did your partial vinyl wrap? Thanks

Thank you, 1Day wraps in Murrieta did it.

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That's the thing, your foot might "be getting on the throttle earlier", but the engine is not delivering the power any earlier because of the damping effect, so what's the point? I rather have my foot control the power delivery than the software, like this I can get either smooth or sharp transitions depending on what I want. Sport+ is far from being an on/off switch, it is in fact very linear, but it does respond immediately to any movement. It is only a question of properly calibrating your right foot.

As a tidbit, I often notice that when students struggle with smooth throttle control it is related to the foot position on the throttle pedal. On throttle pedals that are hinged at the bottom like we have on our cars, it is preferable to have the entire foot resting flat on the pedal with the heel against the hinge. If the heel is away from the hinge with only the toes pressing on the middle of the pedal, a smaller foot movement will result in a larger pedal movement making it more difficult to be precise. Also, it is difficult to position the heel at exactly the same distance from the pedal when the foot is moved from the brake to the throttle, so depending on the heel position, a different foot movement will result in a different pedal movement, making it very challenging to program muscle memory. Further, when the heel rest away from the hinge, the toes need to slip up and down the pedal as the pedal is moved and the friction between the shoe sole and the pedal can cause jerkiness in the movement. Might not be the case for you, but worthwhile mentioning.

I've never said Sport plus delivers the power earlier.
Based on my personal experience and others that co drove my car, Sport is more linear and less erratic than Sport Plus.

[hwalk]

Good Thread and interesting discussion regarding the foot position. I agree with CanAutM3 basically but it's sometime a question of discipline to re-adjust your foot fast and properly after braking. My KW suspension Guru (a rallye and successful racer) suggested to learn braking with the left foot like with race Karts so you can be faster and don't have to move your right foot. But it's very tricky to get the same "feeling" into the left foot when braking like with the right one. In my first attempts i hit the brakes way to hard...

BTT: MDM at the first two laps to check conditions and warm up tires, then brain, no DSC off... Engine S+, steering S

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by anglo

I've never said Sport plus delivers the power earlier.

I do. There is a damping effect in Sport, so there is a delay between throttle movement and power delivery.

Originally Posted by anglo

Based on my personal experience and others that co drove my car, Sport is more linear and less erratic than Sport Plus.

I have 80+ track days with my car and never felt Sport+ to be “erratic”. Quite the contrary.

In the end, it is a question of preference. That is the beauty of the F8X, is that you can set it up as you prefer

[shaftwhy]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

So you're saying that you are pressing on the throttle pedal with you right foot angled to the side with the heel in front of the brake pedal? No wonder you find Sport+ too jerky .

Ideally, your foot should not be hinged at the heel when threshold braking. The heel should be off the footwell with the ball of the foot firmly planted on the brake pedal so you can use your entire leg muscles to apply force and use the finer calf muscles to control modulation. Further, with the heel off the footwell, it is much easier to quickly flick the heel to the right to blip the throttle when downshifting while the ball of the foot stays firmly on the brake to not vary braking force in the process.

I am not OP so there might be a bit confusion. This position doesn't give me jerky feeling for Sport+ throttle. Okay, maybe a bit jerky in first gear, but first gear is almost useless for HPDE anyway.

Nevertheless, I think I need to try the recommended way and maybe just more practices.

[shaftwhy]

Originally Posted by hwalk

Good Thread and interesting discussion regarding the foot position. I agree with CanAutM3 basically but it's sometime a question of discipline to re-adjust your foot fast and properly after braking. My KW suspension Guru (a rallye and successful racer) suggested to learn braking with the left foot like with race Karts so you can be faster and don't have to move your right foot. But it's very tricky to get the same "feeling" into the left foot when braking like with the right one. In my first attempts i hit the brakes way to hard...

BTT: MDM at the first two laps to check conditions and warm up tires, then brain, no DSC off... Engine S+, steering S

The definite guide of left braking from Scott Mansell (not related to the F1 champion though):

https://driver61.com/uni/left-foot-braking/

[shaftwhy]

Originally Posted by shaftwhy

The definite guide of left braking from Scott Mansell (not related to the F1 champion though):

https://driver61.com/uni/left-foot-braking/

So when Scott talks about how to practice left foot braking, one of the tips he gave is:

When you’re beginning, ensure your left heel has a good, solid base on the floor of your car – this will increase stability and enable better accuracy with the movement.

This contradicts with what CanAutM3 shared earlier that at braking the heel is not on the floor.

Granted the guide is for left foot brake, but I suspect Scott would say similar thing for right foot brake as well.

[shaftwhy]

Originally Posted by shaftwhy

So when Scott talks about how to practice left foot braking, one of the tips he gave is:

When you’re beginning, ensure your left heel has a good, solid base on the floor of your car – this will increase stability and enable better accuracy with the movement.

This contradicts with what CanAutM3 shared earlier that at braking the heel is not on the floor.

Granted the guide is for left foot brake, but I suspect Scott would say similar thing for right foot brake as well.

Never mind. It is probably just Manual vs DCT. No way to have a solid base for heel during brake if you need to blip the throttle.