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      09-23-2013, 11:13 AM   #23
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Always makes me smile this thought that BMW pump out cars with hugely more power than they report. I had my car dyno'd and it was bang on OEM.
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      09-23-2013, 11:14 AM   #24
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      09-23-2013, 11:16 AM   #25
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With the bump in torque and small bump in power aslong as it loses 100lbs it's probably .5sec faster in 1/4
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      09-23-2013, 11:17 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesal@IND View Post
Pretty exciting news since its been mentioned the car will weigh less than the E9X M3!

Less weight and more power? Whats not to like!
This, plus the fact that a simple ECU flash will instantly gain another (hopefully) 80-100hp . . . and that's all before aftermarket DP/exhaust or larger turbochargers! I think the gainsayers are forgetting how easy it will be to get more power out of these engines, even when starting with only 425hp.

Now, let's talk E9x M3 trade-in value . . .
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      09-23-2013, 11:17 AM   #27
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These 425hp better be magical or the joke will not be funny...
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      09-23-2013, 11:19 AM   #28
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Hi Jason, are we going to find out more about the actual powerplant this week? I am referencing this:
"Please see the following thread for details and for more technical coverage of the F80 M3 / F82 M4 this week."
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      09-23-2013, 11:20 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
These 425hp better be magical or the joke will not be funny...
If the car weighs less than 3300 pounds, those 425hp will be magical!
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      09-23-2013, 11:21 AM   #30
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Sub'd! Exciting news!
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      09-23-2013, 11:23 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
You know that means 460hp and 400tq though right?
+1. If it is underrated like the 1M, it will be a minimum 450 hp anyway with a minimum 400tq. Stock 1M was advertised as 335hp (340ps) and 369tq where nobody has seen anything less than 350-360hp and 400tq, and usually more than those were on tap.

If the powerplant is overall like the 1M's N54T in character but with an extra 80ish peak hp, and a rev limiter cutting in at least 500 rpms later (7500 or higher) plus an even better throttle response, then it is going to be a much better performer than the previous M3 since the car will weigh less too.

Important is if the engineers still prefered a low and mid range capable engine like the 1M (works good overall but may not be enough for S65 veterans) or if they extended the juice higher up as well; this and giving it a sharp throttle and a special exhaust note would suffice.

I am way much more curious about how it will drive, handle and feel.
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      09-23-2013, 11:32 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viciousfire View Post
If the car weighs less than 3300 pounds, those 425hp will be magical!
The C7 Corvette is 3300lbs. For the "basic" M3/M4 to hit that it will require a massive amount of aluminum and CF in the chassis. And a massive increase in base price.

I can see the same ~100lbs reduction as in the F30/F32 but not 300lbs in the "regular" model, though.
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      09-23-2013, 11:38 AM   #33
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Next thing it will be announced that the M4 will weigh 3500 and these same HP nuts will say "well BMW always overrates its curb weight, its more like 3300lbs in real life!!".

Why cant you guys just take the numbers for what they are?
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      09-23-2013, 11:42 AM   #34
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If this engine is rated as conservatively as all the other BMW petrol turbo engines have been, it is going to be one hellacious power plant.

There has been a lot of speculation as to why BMW is publishing such conservative numbers. It reminds me of about 30 years ago when no manufacturer would publish a horsepower spec over 300 for fear the insurance companies would spank them.
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      09-23-2013, 11:43 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM3S View Post
Next thing it will be announced that the M4 will weigh 3500 and these same HP nuts will say "well BMW always overrates its curb weight, its more like 3300lbs in real life!!".

Why cant you guys just take the numbers for what they are?
It is a habit of wittnessing BMW underrating its turbo engines, in some cases greatly. That's why. I agree that there is nothing underrated about the S65 or previous S engines though.

It does not mean that it will be the case with the new engine, just that it is possible.

More important is the weight, feel of the new steering, handling balance etc. No one should be worried about the engine numbers and performance since it sure will outperform the S65 underrated or not.
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      09-23-2013, 11:45 AM   #36
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Not that it matters much, but interested in whether the 425hp is SAE or DIN...would need to get to 3,350 lbs to get a power/weight ratio below 8.0 if you convert to SAE at 420 hp (M5 is 7.6-7.7).
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      09-23-2013, 11:49 AM   #37
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Booya. Reasonable numbers and should be way more than enough power for going wild on the streets. I bet curb wt will be just shy of 3500 lbs. Anyone who thinks it will be 3300 lbs is fooling themselves.

Honestly I'm more interested in the new performance features than the engine. It will have more than ample power but what about everything else? Suspension, brakes, cooling, ride comfort, interior materials...
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      09-23-2013, 11:51 AM   #38
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Okay so the only thing that those numbers mean are that it will not make 425hp and 370 ft-lbs of torque.
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      09-23-2013, 11:51 AM   #39
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I am happy with the information and I am glad that concrete details are starting to come out. I can't wait to see what people say after they get a chance to be a passenger in the vehicle. This is a great start to the week and thank you Jason for keeping us in the loop.
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      09-23-2013, 11:51 AM   #40
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Wish it was a bit more on the HP side but if it aims for 3,300 (or less) that would be awesome
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      09-23-2013, 11:53 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
It is a habit of wittnessing BMW underrating its turbo engines, in some cases greatly. That's why. I agree that there is nothing underrated about the S65 or previous S engines though.

It does not mean that it will be the case with the new engine, just that it is possible.

More important is the weight, feel of the new steering, handling balance etc. No one should be worried about the engine numbers and performance since it sure will outperform the S65 underrated or not.
I agree. After having spent a day driving the 6s ( 650 & M6 GC, Vert and Coupe ), The 7s ( 750i, 750 iL, B7 ) on track, autocross and drag strip I cemented my own view that power means nothing to me as long as it's "sufficient". I would not trade the S65 for any of those more powerful engines. Why? Throttle lag, low rpms and lack of in cabin engine note. To me it's the character of the new engine that means everything, the power figures was to be honest totally uninterresting to me. I knew it would be above 400 hp and that's all I need to know. It would be very interresting to hear details on what BMW has done in order to reduce lag and increase pull at top rpm for the F8X.
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      09-23-2013, 11:53 AM   #42
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I am ok with the HP number but I was hoping for a little more tq. Hopefully those numbers are conservative. That being said, this is going to be crazy with a tune!!!
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      09-23-2013, 11:55 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NuclearSymphony View Post
This, plus the fact that a simple ECU flash will instantly gain another (hopefully) 80-100hp . . . and that's all before aftermarket DP/exhaust or larger turbochargers! I think the gainsayers are forgetting how easy it will be to get more power out of these engines, even when starting with only 425hp.

Now, let's talk E9x M3 trade-in value . . .
80-100hp from a "simple tune" will not happen. BMW is starting with a low displacement motor to begin with and is taking much more effort in preventing significant power from aftermarket tuners. Just look at the n55 motor vs the n54. And look at the new M5/M6.
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      09-23-2013, 11:56 AM   #44
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looking at these numbers, i bet they went to extreme in trying to gain response and minimize lag. should be a exciting car
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