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      09-23-2013, 01:57 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
The C7 Corvette is 3300lbs. For the "basic" M3/M4 to hit that it will require a massive amount of aluminum and CF in the chassis. And a massive increase in base price.

I can see the same ~100lbs reduction as in the F30/F32 but not 300lbs in the "regular" model, though.
Agreed. And really the Corvette with the Z51 package is at 3400lbs. BMW will have to pull a rabbbit out of a hat to get the M3/4 down to that weight.
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      09-23-2013, 01:58 PM   #68
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The weight reduction and torque increase will make this car great. But yeah that number does seem a tad low.

The good thing is that the tune on this car is going to make it INSANE! Don't you guys remember every boosted 335 on this board!?!??!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
80-100hp from a "simple tune" will not happen. BMW is starting with a low displacement motor to begin with and is taking much more effort in preventing significant power from after-market tuners. Just look at the n55 motor vs the n54. And look at the new M5/M6.
I am not say this is what I would do, but I know a TON of people with 335s with a $400 tune that are running 400hp/450tq on the stock 3.0L. A few upgrades and they are at like 450hp/500tq. My 335 friend's toast my M3 in a straight line all day long! I kill them on the corners, but still, these BMW turbos have easily tunable power!

I can't even imagine the numbers tuners will put out starting at 425hp / 370 ft-lbs!!!
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      09-23-2013, 02:00 PM   #69
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The turbo should make the m3 a better daily and something to be reckoned with on track, especially with dct. I think the news of a turbo m3 is only bad news for those who primarily track there cars, but that was never the purpose of the m3. There's better cars for those who are looking for a track only car.

I'm excited for the change and look fwd to owning one as my dual purpose vehicle.
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      09-23-2013, 02:01 PM   #70
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Sub'ed. Will be interesting to see the final figures
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      09-23-2013, 02:09 PM   #71
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M3/4 vs B3

What are the numbers for the Alpina B3, just as a reference? I understand the motors are not identical, but I think we can approximate the TQ based off this model alone.

Either way: I honestly thought the HP was going to match, if not come very close to TQ numbers. This is an obvious decision made by M engineers. And as a previous poster noted It will have to do with a Higher Redline or perhaps, or in addition to, a decrease in lag (hopefully elimination)
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      09-23-2013, 02:11 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kardboard
What are the numbers for the Alpina B3, just as a reference? I understand the motors are not identical, but I think we can approximate the TQ based off this model alone.

Either way: I honestly thought the HP was going to match, if not come very close to TQ numbers. This is an obvious decision made by M engineers. And as a previous poster noted It will have to do with a Higher Redline or perhaps, or in addition to, a decrease in lad (hopefully elimination)
Alpina B3 has 410 hp / 443 lb-ft
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      09-23-2013, 02:12 PM   #73
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Fingers crossed on weight reduction and huge radiators
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      09-23-2013, 02:14 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
Agreed. And really the Corvette with the Z51 package is at 3400lbs. BMW will have to pull a rabbbit out of a hat to get the M3/4 down to that weight.
Don't count on it being that low. The vette with the Z51 is going to be a tough contender. ZO6/7.... forget it. I love BMW but we need to understand that the Corvette (especially in ZO6/7 format) is a dedicated track car, where as an M3 (M4 especially) is turning to be more of a blend of track car and luxury (read weight and amenities to better suit daily driving.)
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      09-23-2013, 02:15 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalS2k View Post
Alpina B3 has 410 hp / 443 lb-ft
Ouch there goes that theory... I highly doubt we will see that over 370 TQ
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      09-23-2013, 02:22 PM   #76
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Thats it ,any spec ? the Audi will the 450 looks good now
Next RS5 will ditch it's V8 in favor of the TT V6 used in Panamera S and that engine makes almost the same numbers as the M3. So powerwise, they are pretty close. And since the TT V6 is actually heavier than the 4.2 in RS5, so unless Audi do some magic with aluminum the next RS5 will end up in 4xxx lbs range again.
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      09-23-2013, 02:23 PM   #77
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Thanks for the "preview" of the preview.

I'm also strongly betting on some underrating about 25 hp is probably right about where it will be, thus 450 hp. BMW will want to boast how they best competitors with much more power due to chassis "magic".

To those that said composite suspension arms: Like I said, not a chance. But speaking of that where the heck did this picture come from?

Very nice steel tubular subframe with aluminum forgings mixed in!

Carbon fiber strut brace: Any bets on this being stock or a really overpriced accessory?

Once we know weight we will know just about exactly how this car will perform.
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      09-23-2013, 02:28 PM   #78
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Looking at the bigger picture... BMW has been underrating their numbers on FI cars. So 440-450 could be the real numbers. And think about how many 335s are rolling around with 400hp just off of a tune. So that means that 500hp should not be hard to reach at all. And having a base of almost 400tq, the thing will be moving and will be a great car around town! All that plus some stock weight reduction, this is a win!!
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      09-23-2013, 02:28 PM   #79
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As I'm not into drag racing and also believe that the M cars where not designed with drag racing in mind, 0-100(km/h) and 1/4mile times isn't that important to me. Neither is if it has 422, 425, 445 or 460hp... (in some sense it do, but not besides for bragging rights).

To me, the important information will be;

Is it fun to drive, is it faster on a track (the 'Ring), does it make me smile to drive it on a twisty road, does it sound good and will it leave the MB's and Audi's behind me on the twisties.

If it ticks those boxes, it doesn't matter (to me) whether some fat MB might out accelerate it in a straight line. Let them enjoy going fast straight ahead while we enjoy the M3/M4 when the roads have corners.

If it does the above, then I don't care if it only had 300hp... Low weight and an agile engine is what I hope we will get
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      09-23-2013, 02:31 PM   #80
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Is there where BMW USA will say 425 and while its actually 450 in BMW GmbH
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      09-23-2013, 02:36 PM   #81
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I'm off to M5.

Alpina B3 sounds also like a good alternative, with much more torque and AWD.
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      09-23-2013, 02:43 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Thanks for the "preview" of the preview.

I'm also strongly betting on some underrating about 25 hp is probably right about where it will be, thus 450 hp. BMW will want to boast how they best competitors with much more power due to chassis "magic".

To those that said composite suspension arms: Like I said, not a chance. But speaking of that where the heck did this picture come from?

Very nice steel tubular subframe with aluminum forgings mixed in!

Carbon fiber strut brace: Any bets on this being stock or a really overpriced accessory?

Once we know weight we will know just about exactly how this car will perform.
Jason said they were participating in some workshops, assume one of the people attending (dealer?) may have posted that.
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      09-23-2013, 02:46 PM   #83
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lmao at all the "just get a tune" comments. No one bothers to think about the fact that this engine is probably already near maxed for cooling and that maybe M division might have already put a good within limits tune on it. Also, a powertrain warranty is a nice thing to have on an $80k car with unproven reliability and what will likely be a very complicated powerplant.

Why do so many people feel they need 500hp? I'm sure they can't properly drive a 500hp RWD car. I just don't get it. Above 350-400 hp, it's the experience that matters, not the power.
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      09-23-2013, 02:47 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brava09 View Post
I'm off to M5.

Alpina B3 sounds also like a good alternative, with much more torque and AWD.
AWD for an M Sedan!?
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      09-23-2013, 02:51 PM   #85
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There are workshops for the media with the new M3 and M4 with the media even getting rides only in the new car with the drivers from DTM.

In a way similar to the BMWi ride along.
So although the only finished car there is the M4 Concept Car the rest are still disguised prototypes.

Bimmerpost's South is there.

Most of you will never drive at the top speed of their M3 or M4 and only a minority will track the car. Everything is not about speed , that is why the outgoing M3 remained at the top. It was that level of precision that made the car memorable.
And as I mentioned before, when the standard chassis is transformed into an M it has to be outstanding or else you get the Audi RS 5 which for an M3 rival , sure it has the numbers but still retains the abysmal carry overs from the A5.

The new M3 and M4 focus on precision but take it to a new level thanks to weight reduction, Reducing weight and engineering precision is more important to BMW M than prolonging the Horse Power war. We lost that but became much better at other things, the important things , the things people want when they get behind the wheel of an M3. And now the new icon for BMW M. The BMW M4.

The BMW M3 Coupe is Dead. Get ready for the new BMW M4.
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      09-23-2013, 02:52 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Why do so many people feel they need 500hp? I'm sure they can't properly drive a 500hp RWD car. I just don't get it. Above 350-400 hp, it's the experience that matters, not the power.
Bragging rights! I guarantee you a lot of M3,5,6 owners NEVER seen a track in their lives. Even the 335/535 for that matter do people really "need" 300+HP. Some people spend thousands of dollars to get their car to get 400HP and never been to a track as well.

I go to the track here and there for fun but nothing serious.
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      09-23-2013, 02:53 PM   #87
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Very nice number indeed. Not exceptional, but I could definitely use a torque increase from 295. I might be ready to turn over my lease in 3 years, we'll see. Or just supercharge and stick with the beasty V8.
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      09-23-2013, 02:53 PM   #88
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Scott - Will there be an embargo on pics and notes from that testing or can we expect news and first impressions soon? I know Jason said this week for some additional stats but also hoping for driving (riding along?) impressions from the media more broadly.
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