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      09-23-2013, 02:54 PM   #89
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      09-23-2013, 02:54 PM   #90
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I think we'll see again the same scenario Alpina B5 vs M5:
* Unladen: 1920 kg vs 1945 Kg;
* Max output: kW/ HP/ 1/min: 397/540/5200 - 6250 vs 412/560/ 6000 - 7000;
* Max torque: Nm/1/min: 730/2800 - 5000 vs 680/ 1500 - 5750;
* Acceleration 0-100 km/ h (s): 4.3 vs 4.3;
* Top speed (km/h): 323 vs 305.

As for Alpina B3 vs M3 we have the following specs:
* Unladen: 1610kg vs ??;
* Max output (kW/ hp/ 1/min): 301/410/ 5500 - 6250 vs 313/425/ ??;
* Max torque( Nm/ 1/min): 600/ 3000 - 4000 vs 500/ ??;
* Acceleration 0 - 100km/h (s): 4.2 vs ??;
* Top speed (km/h): 305 vs ??.
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      09-23-2013, 02:54 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2
Thanks for the "preview" of the preview.

I'm also strongly betting on some underrating about 25 hp is probably right about where it will be, thus 450 hp. BMW will want to boast how they best competitors with much more power due to chassis "magic".

To those that said composite suspension arms: Like I said, not a chance. But speaking of that where the heck did this picture come from?

Very nice steel tubular subframe with aluminum forgings mixed in!

Carbon fiber strut brace: Any bets on this being stock or a really overpriced accessory?

Once we know weight we will know just about exactly how this car will perform.
If BMW subscribes to a rating philosophy similar to that of the 1M, wouldn't even 450hp be low? From the bit of research I've done over lunch, most 1M's were dyno'ing their factory rating which could have the F80/82 pushing 480+hp at the crank (depending on your assumed drivetrain loss).

Am I crazy?
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      09-23-2013, 02:56 PM   #92
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Jason,

Any word on if there will be a competition package and if so, will it be available right away or a couple years in.
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      09-23-2013, 02:57 PM   #93
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Pretty disappointing #s imo.

Losing NA V8 which sounded great and had instant throtle response for almost no hp gain???? Thats weak.
BMW turbo motors are notorious for limp mode once turbos are too hot also.

Not a big improvement over E92 M3.

Lexus RC F will have V8 with more HP and torque.
Cadillac ATS will have more HP/tq
MB C63 as well

New M4 will be around 80k with options - lots of sports cars in that price range.
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      09-23-2013, 03:07 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
Scott - Will there be an embargo on pics and notes from that testing or can we expect news and first impressions soon? I know Jason said this week for some additional stats but also hoping for driving (riding along?) impressions from the media more broadly.
Yes there will be a press release , and the media sites will be reporting what they are permitted to. But no one will be driving the car , so no actual driver impressions unless they ask the drivers , engineers etc?
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      09-23-2013, 03:08 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
There are workshops for the media with the new M3 and M4 with the media even getting rides only in the new car with the drivers from DTM.

In a way similar to the BMWi ride along.
So although the only finished car there is the M4 Concept Car the rest are still disguised prototypes.


Bimmerpost's South is there.

Most of you will never drive at the top speed of their M3 or M4 and only a minority will track the car. Everything is not about speed , that is why the outgoing M3 remained at the top. It was that level of precision that made the car memorable.
And as I mentioned before, when the standard chassis is transformed into an M it has to be outstanding or else you get the Audi RS 5 which for an M3 rival , sure it has the numbers but still retains the abysmal carry overs from the A5.

The new M3 and M4 focus on precision but take it to a new level thanks to weight reduction, Reducing weight and engineering precision is more important to BMW M than prolonging the Horse Power war. We lost that but became much better at other things, the important things , the things people want when they get behind the wheel of an M3. And now the new icon for BMW M. The BMW M4.

The BMW M3 Coupe is Dead. Get ready for the new BMW M4.
This should be a good indication of limp mode problems. I know the DTM drivers will be pushing the car thus heating the turbos and testing the cooling system the new M3/4 has. South hopefully will be able to report on whether cars are being swapped, if cars are parked for an extended period for cool down, etc. Great news Scott. As for BMW and the "horse power war" unfortunately we will be beating that horse until people actually test drive the car themselves.
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      09-23-2013, 03:08 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
lmao at all the "just get a tune" comments. No one bothers to think about the fact that this engine is probably already near maxed for cooling and that maybe M division might have already put a good within limits tune on it. Also, a powertrain warranty is a nice thing to have on an $80k car with unproven reliability and what will likely be a very complicated powerplant.

Why do so many people feel they need 500hp? I'm sure they can't properly drive a 500hp RWD car. I just don't get it. Above 350-400 hp, it's the experience that matters, not the power.
Exactly. I'l consider adding an M4 to my garage after LCI comes out and most of the lessons, factory or tuner oriented, have been learned from the early cars.
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      09-23-2013, 03:09 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FogCityM3 View Post
Assuming 3,400lbs, that's a weight to power of 8.0 lbs per hp. Looks like will not be trampling on M5/M6 straight line performance.
Can't help but wonder if they're holding it back. Reminds me of the Cayman in Porsche's lineup.
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      09-23-2013, 03:09 PM   #98
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Lack of actual car knowledge really shows when we start talking numbers. Looking at half of these responses, you'd think horsepower is the be-all and end-all of performance figures.

We're still gaining 11 hp and 70 lb-ft of torque. Consider the weight reduction, severe underrating on BMW turbo engines, and ease of power gains with a turbo engine.

Save your negativity for abominations like the 3 series GT with 15 ///M badges slapped all over it.
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      09-23-2013, 03:11 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy
Obviously a $70k BMW M is not supposed to beat a $120k BMW M in straight line performance. Porsche does the same thing with the boxster/cayman and the 911
Agreed...
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      09-23-2013, 03:13 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedez
Ouch I dreamed at least 450...
You know that means 460hp and 400tq though right?
Exactly, what the actual numbers are and what BMW states are usually a bit off...who cares about numbers anyhow, lets dig into the handling and performance enhancements!
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      09-23-2013, 03:14 PM   #101
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what is the sense about underrating engine numbers? Why does BMW quote a 0-100 in 4,4sec for the M5, when many magazines/ journalists and you forum guys clock the M5 in under 4,0sec's.
Maybe a silly question.. but what is the benefit of underrating engine numbers and performance figures?
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      09-23-2013, 03:15 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
There are workshops for the media with the new M3 and M4 with the media even getting rides only in the new car with the drivers from DTM.

In a way similar to the BMWi ride along.
So although the only finished car there is the M4 Concept Car the rest are still disguised prototypes.

Bimmerpost's South is there.

Most of you will never drive at the top speed of their M3 or M4 and only a minority will track the car. Everything is not about speed , that is why the outgoing M3 remained at the top. It was that level of precision that made the car memorable.
And as I mentioned before, when the standard chassis is transformed into an M it has to be outstanding or else you get the Audi RS 5 which for an M3 rival , sure it has the numbers but still retains the abysmal carry overs from the A5.

The new M3 and M4 focus on precision but take it to a new level thanks to weight reduction, Reducing weight and engineering precision is more important to BMW M than prolonging the Horse Power war. We lost that but became much better at other things, the important things , the things people want when they get behind the wheel of an M3. And now the new icon for BMW M. The BMW M4.

The BMW M3 Coupe is Dead. Get ready for the new BMW M4.

Always love your posts.

As you mentioned, the competition always had more horsepower but the E92 M3 still always ended up on top.
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      09-23-2013, 03:22 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
Pretty disappointing #s imo.

Losing NA V8 which sounded great and had instant throtle response for almost no hp gain???? Thats weak.
BMW turbo motors are notorious for limp mode once turbos are too hot also.

Not a big improvement over E92 M3.

Lexus RC F will have V8 with more HP and torque.
Cadillac ATS will have more HP/tq
MB C63 as well

New M4 will be around 80k with options - lots of sports cars in that price range.
Ah as much as I love the looks of the M3/4 I have to agree. I'll take the new cayman s 981c. Just sayin. Power is nice but i can probably have much more fun with a 325hp mid engine car at the track. EDIT: @ 2980lbs
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      09-23-2013, 03:22 PM   #104
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I am dissapointed. I was expecting more .

Sure the rumors were there, but I was still hoping for more power. Now we can just hope they did some miracle on the weight side .

The E46 was only 150lb or so lighter than the E9X. Bringing the F8X to E46 levels will just not cut it to match the competition in terms of power to weight.

I purchased my E46 and E92 before even driving one. It will not be the case for the F82...

Last edited by CanAutM3; 09-24-2013 at 10:21 AM.
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      09-23-2013, 03:23 PM   #105
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I just hope it revs to 8+k. Even then, I will be curious to see how the M stacks up to a heavily modified (track spec) 335i (N54)... They seem very similar in statistics (weight, possible power after tuning, size, etc).

-Mike
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      09-23-2013, 03:23 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecom32 View Post
Lack of actual car knowledge really shows when we start talking numbers. Looking at half of these responses, you'd think horsepower is the be-all and end-all of performance figures.

We're still gaining 11 hp and 70 lb-ft of torque. Consider the weight reduction, severe underrating on BMW turbo engines, and ease of power gains with a turbo engine.

Save your negativity for abominations like the 3 series GT with 15 ///M badges slapped all over it.
Best comment thus far! Well put.
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      09-23-2013, 03:23 PM   #107
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so thats equals to 225WHP lol.

car looks amazing tho jaw dropping
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      09-23-2013, 03:24 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caneaddict View Post
Jason,

Any word on if there will be a competition package and if so, will it be available right away or a couple years in.
Looks like there will be a performance/competition pack:

"a much stronger version is also offered as part of a performance or competition package. Official information with exact numbers follow soon"

http://www.bimmertoday.de/2013/09/23...ne-orange-rot/
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      09-23-2013, 03:27 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
lmao at all the "just get a tune" comments. No one bothers to think about the fact that this engine is probably already near maxed for cooling and that maybe M division might have already put a good within limits tune on it. Also, a powertrain warranty is a nice thing to have on an $80k car with unproven reliability and what will likely be a very complicated powerplant.
Why should the engine be "maxed for cooling"?

And obviously BMW M have put a within limits "tune" on it, they allways do (just like any manufacturer).

If BMW M have put a engine that is within 90-100% of it's limits from the factory, that would be odd. To be on the safe side with regards to component reliability etc, a manufacturer allways have quite a substantial amount of margin. If this engine doesn't, it would be a industry first and the first car engine that doesn't leave room for higher outputs/stresses.

Or maybe I misunderstood you?
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      09-23-2013, 03:27 PM   #110
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M4 = Glorified 4 Series

Just kidding

But seriousluy the Gap is getting narrower between Bimmers these days

Power:
spend about 2k on a 435 you can get equivalent or more power of the engine

Looks:
M sport looks very similar to the M4 body kit (to the untrained eye), especially the M-performance body parts looks almost identical

Tranny:
ZF8 on 435/335 F30 etc is almost as fast and precise as a DCT. And now it even has launch control.

Price:
Still a HUGE Gap, while all other gaps are narrowing

Back in the day, an M3 was light years ahead of the 335. Engine, tranny (DCT vs regular garbage 6 speed auto), etc

Now the gap is so narrow in looks, power, transmission etc

Again we all get it, its not just engine HP numbers, the handling bla bla bla but still, alot of people who purchase an M3/M4 do so for the differentiation/exoticness vs a regular 3 series or 4 series. I think very few track the car.

Now that the GAP is this narrow, I think only truly hardcore enthusiasts/track drivers would go for an M4.

Just my $.2
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