Chris Harris reviews the W205 C63 (also Car & Driver, Motor Authority, etc.)

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Those statements were certainly the worst things he said about the C63 and the best things he said regarding the M3. In his written review (posted above), he stated that the C63 will be the fastest of the German competitors.

He also said that, compared to BMW M, AMG did a better job with its new motor, in terms of replicating the excitement of the previous powerplant. He also stated there might be quite a few folks which pick the C63 because of the sound alone.

He left the question of which is the better overall performer open, subject to a back-to-back comparison.

He seemed pretty darn excited about the seats, cabin, technology, throttle response, torque, and sound. The recurring theme I noticed was that he was impressed with the sheer speed of the thing. Another positive was that the ride was sublime both on road and track.

Seems that both the M3 and C63 share the trait of setting off the TC constantly. I quite liked that characteristic in the F8Xs I've driven.

I thought these comments from the written reviews to be interesting:

"Comparing the C63 S to its nearest natural competitor, the BMW M3, is perhaps one of the most enlightening revelations for the brand-agnostic performance enthusiast: where once the BMW would have had the superior ride quality, steering feel, and sport seats, the pendulum has swung completely to Mercedes-AMG’s side."

"Where the BMW feels leaden and lifeless (read: anything below about 100 mph), the C63 S feels lithe and limber. Above 100 mph, both cars are a joy to drive, but the BMW still feels more like a surgeon’s laser scalpel, while the C63 S is a back-alley switchblade—in hoonistic respects, at least."

Yeah, I gave a detailed rundown of the video in the other thread. Other than the points noted above, there wasn't a whole lot of other direct M3 to C63 comparison in the videos (other than he thought C63 exterior to be a bit 'meh')

As for the quotes from the other wrotten review you have (motor authority), the concept of the M3 being leaden or lifeless is very different from their review of the F80 itself (I love when concerns get raised in this indirect way....so....legitimate. Ish.) and saying the car that EVO complained has too much torque is 'lifeless' makes me wonder what the driver was on.

Harris has driven the M3 enough I will respect his comparisons when they come. These guys....well, I didn't think much of either review (M3 or C63) to be honest. But everyone wants to sell copy and make headlines so, sure, stir up controversy gents......

As I think many people expected, people will like the AMG engine but whether the car overall is better will likely be a very individual decision. Expect it isnt a slam dunk either way as it hasn't been since AMG picked up their game and your 507 was released.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Yeah, I gave a detailed rundown of the video in the other thread. Other than the points noted above, there wasn't a whole lot of other direct M3 to C63 comparison in the videos (other than he thought C63 exterior to be a bit 'meh')

As for the quotes from the other written review you have (motor authority), the concept of the M3 being leaden or lifeless is very different from their review of the F80 itself (I love when concerns get raised in this indirect way....so....legitimate. Ish.) and saying the car that EVO complained has too much torque is 'lifeless' makes me wonder what the driver was on.

Harris has driven the M3 enough I will respect his comparisons when they come. These guys....well, I didn't think much of either review (M3 or C63) to be honest. But everyone wants to sell copy and make headlines so, sure, stir up controversy gents......

As I think many people expected, people will like the AMG engine but whether the car overall is better will likely be a very individual decision. Expect it isnt a slam dunk either way as it hasn't been since AMG picked up their game and your 507 was released.

I thought your transcript of the video review was very accurate. As you indicated, there weren't a lot of direct comparisons. Although Harris did emphatically state that he felt AMG did a better job in terms of replicating the excitement of the previous motor. Of course, BMW faced a stiff challenge going from the 4.0L NA V8 to the turbo'd I6 (and it still turned out fine).

And he noted that the sound of the V8 was still immense, despite the presence of two turbos.

And I think you're absolutely spot-on with your concluding paragraph.

I'm glad that the M3 and C63 have different personalities. Variety is the spice of life. The M3 should be the surgical, twitchy (in a good way), brash (also in a good way, referring to the exterior), well-rounded athlete that it has always been.

The C63 should be the faster, more stealthy/sedate, more luxurious Autobahn barnstormer that it always has been. It's just exciting to see that AMG has rectified some of the issues that the past generation suffered from (e.g., the transmission) and has taken further steps in making the C63 a more well-rounded performance car (rather than just a luxury car with big motor).

Both cars are now more competent performers than their predecessors. Both manufacturers are at the top of their game.

The Corvette (with the C7) has made similar strides toward becoming more dynamic but some folks (certainly not you) seem reluctant to accept that the AMG cars' personalities have changed a bit, while still retaining the positive attributes that made them unique.

Prior to the W204 C63, one of the criticisms was that the C-Class AMGs shared too much in common with the standard cars. Now, the W205 has been designed virtually from the ground up (more akin to the production of the M3). Compared to the standard C-Class, it has a bespoke rear axle assembly, front axle assembly, suspension, differential, etc.

[Stevens21234]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

I'll agree the styling goes to m3 by far but heck I don't buy the car for styling (within reason) . I'm shocked st how far ahead amg killed the m3 this generation. Wow.

I notice Kenny is super defensive in every thread lately. Usually insecurity so continuing to feed it will only ignite further buyers remorse

Your lack of substance is just as bad as any insecurity on here. Way to proclaim defeat when harris is unsure.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

And as I mentioned above, the W205 Black Series will likely pack quite a bit more power and much wider front/rear rubber.

A version of the W205 with massive front and rear fender flares has been lapping the 'ring for quite some time now.

The Black Series usually comes as a last 'Hoorah' of an AMG model. Don't expect it anytime soon.

[Damasconian]

All Chris Harris does is put out the best automobile review videos online today. He's proven to be the very best of his profession.

[dkhm3]

In my very subjective opinion-I think it will be close, but same story-

C will be faster 0-60, and 1/4 mile by a bit.

M will be faster around the track, by a bit.

There is a lot of substance behind that interior that MB makes and having owned several MB products, I can attest to the quality, but the materials weigh things down and I am apt to believe in the 4k estimated weight of the C. That plus I suspect the chassis of the C class will have some limitations on the track- due to the fact that they wanted to build a baby S.

Really getting interesting.

again subjectively, my neighbor has a C300 (No it is not ybbiz34) and I have tried looking at every angle to like it. rear and rear quarter panels are not doing it for me. Like the front a lot though.

[dkhm3]

There is a lot of pent up excitement since the reviews are trickling out. Good times we are living in when you can choose between

RS5/M4/C63S/ATS-V

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

There is a lot of pent up excitement since the reviews are trickling out. Good times we are living in when you can choose between

RS5/M4/C63S/ATS-V

You forgot Volvo Polestar and RC-f

[M3guy3]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Game over bmw. Timing didn't allow me to wait for this car so I'll stick iylt out for 2.5 years with my f80 but I'll be anxiously waiting to dump it for a new c63.

Honestly giys, when am wins in handling and steering, it's game over as they always have had more potent engines.

Bmw, needed to go turbo v8 to be competitive and they botched the sound.

Bmw really is as behind this new c63 as Lexus new rcf is behind the m3

i dont think BMW needed to go turbo V8. They just needed to make a good 6 cylinder. yet they gave us a typical turbo, that is the same as most of there engines, and added fake sound in the speakers. Not to mention the real sound isnt anything to talk about.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by M3guy3

i dont think BMW needed to go turbo V8. They just needed to make a good 6 cylinder. yet they gave us a typical turbo, that is the same as most of there engines, and added fake sound in the speakers. Not to mention the real sound isnt anything to talk about.

I am very happy with this engine. It loves to rev, pulls to redline, linear, lots of torque.

I am coming from a 6.2 liter v8.

Not sure where to improve on, besides the sound- but I have never liked any of the m3 sounds before. Would love the amg sound, but not a requirement.

[Blksnowflake]

Awesome car just really not aggressive enough. I want aggression in design too not really into the sleeper look.
If both these cars were available when I was looking to buy, the choice would be agonising....I think the AMG might have won by a slight margin because of hp and interior, I don't know but the transmission kind of kills it for me a little, just can't accept it as performance based enough.
I drove an RCF and that thing is a slush box although reviewers praise it.

[Vectors2final]

Well, I'll say that I love the car. Very nice, and while some probably love the interior/exterior styling of the car, it doesn't get me excited. I do like the front end, but I prefer sharper lines. I also think that the interiors are square in my mind. Both have things that I really like, but I like the dash more in the F8X. I think they were on point with the seats, but I don't like certain things. Too many similarities across the line. The CLA dash looks pretty close from what I remember. I was looking at a CLA, but that was partially because I wanted to settle on a car. I think I'd love the open pore wood trim over the CF in the F8X. I think BMW executed the nav location and appearance better, and I don't like the use of aluminum/chrome all over. Same goes for the seat adjustment being on the door, which might have to do with the seat design? If I recall, the seats are Recaro. The car looks like a hoot with great power and a similar sound/dynamic that you've always come to love with the C63. I like that the BMW isn't as "refined" as some are saying, when speaking of dynamics and characteristics.

It's going to be a great comparison, and it will be exciting to see what the boys at M will come up with for the ZCP. In before all the reviews compare the C63S vs M3/4 and not the standard C63.


It is indeed a good time to be in a market for a car in the segment. A segment I think I'll most likely remain in for at least another decade, quite possibly longer depending on where technology goes with the next rung up(M5/E63).

[Falafel Combo]

Seems like a great car which also makes some brutal power! I would love to drive one someday.

The deal breakers for me are no manual option and the exterior looks. I just can't get over the droopy exterior (flame surfaced?). The f80 looks far more aggressive and does a better job at projecting youth and sportiness, IMO.

The interior on the other hand is purely art! I think BMW has a lot to learn here.

Also, it seems that MB AMG had no problems creating delicious engine and exhaust sounds despite the turbocharging (looking at you BMW M).

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Damasconian

All Chris Harris does is put out the best automobile review videos online today. He's proven to be the very best of his profession.

I like that he is genuine. Not pretentious at all.

[ss134]

Great review as always by Chris. The new C63 is clearly a great car and the S version packs a potent 500hp V8 motor - who doesn't love a V8. I love the fact that AMG went to such lengths to make the car sound so good ( BMW take note!) and the fact that it's more fuel efficient makes it a compelling car.

But, and it's a big but for me .......when I saw the first pictures of the M3 I was in love straight away, I would have sold a kidney to get one, it looked so mean and purposeful with it's flared arches, stance and CF roof- I wanted one badly and every time I drive it heads turn and people do a double take. The fact is the M3 looks like a sporty machine and the C63 just doesn't .

When I look at the C63 it does nothing to me, it looks like a regular C Class with nice wheels. It stirs no emotion in me whatsoever.

This car would have to absolutely blow me away with it's steering, chassis and motor on a test drive for me to be even slightly tempted. Based on just this review and what I've read I feel the engine and sound are superior to the M3 and I would have to drive one to gauge the steering and feel of the car but my thoughts at the moment are that I prefer the looks, gearbox , interior and attitude of the M3.

Real shame about the styling, the old one looked great to my eyes.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Damasconian

All Chris Harris does is put out the best automobile review videos online today. He's proven to be the very best of his profession.

This one was his best in a while....because it featured the least amount of drifting!

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I thought your transcript of the video review was very accurate. As you indicated, there weren't a lot of direct comparisons. Although Harris did emphatically state that he felt AMG did a better job in terms of replicating the excitement of the previous motor. Of course, BMW faced a stiff challenge going from the 4.0L NA V8 to the turbo'd I6 (and it still turned out fine).

And he noted that the sound of the V8 was still immense, despite the presence of two turbos.

And I think you're absolutely spot-on with your concluding paragraph.

I'm glad that the M3 and C63 have different personalities. Variety is the spice of life. The M3 should be the surgical, twitchy (in a good way), brash (also in a good way, referring to the exterior), well-rounded athlete that it has always been.

The C63 should be the faster, more stealthy/sedate, more luxurious Autobahn barnstormer that it always has been. It's just exciting to see that AMG has rectified some of the issues that the past generation suffered from (e.g., the transmission) and has taken further steps in making the C63 a more well-rounded performance car (rather than just a luxury car with big motor).

Both cars are now more competent performers than their predecessors. Both manufacturers are at the top of their game.

The Corvette (with the C7) has made similar strides toward becoming more dynamic but some folks (certainly not you) seem reluctant to accept that the AMG cars' personalities have changed a bit, while still retaining the positive attributes that made them unique.

Prior to the W204 C63, one of the criticisms was that the C-Class AMGs shared too much in common with the standard cars. Now, the W205 has been designed virtually from the ground up (more akin to the production of the M3). Compared to the standard C-Class, it has a bespoke rear axle assembly, front axle assembly, suspension, differential, etc.

Accurate synopsis. Both cars are better then their predecessor, except the F8X is lacking in The aural department. But the C63 is really lacking in the aggressive looks department. Their one weak spot each.

Both excellent cars.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by ss134

Great review as always by Chris. The new C63 is clearly a great car and the S version packs a potent 500hp V8 motor - who doesn't love a V8. I love the fact that AMG went to such lengths to make the car sound so good ( BMW take note!) and the fact that it's more fuel efficient makes it a compelling car.

But, and it's a big but for me .......when I saw the first pictures of the M3 I was in love straight away, I would have sold a kidney to get one, it looked so mean and purposeful with it's flared arches, stance and CF roof- I wanted one badly and every time I drive it heads turn and people do a double take. The fact is the M3 looks like a sporty machine and the C63 just doesn't .

When I look at the C63 it does nothing to me, it looks like a regular C Class with nice wheels. It stirs no emotion in me whatsoever.

This car would have to absolutely blow me away with it's steering, chassis and motor on a test drive for me to be even slightly tempted. Based on just this review and what I've read I feel the engine and sound are superior to the M3 and I would have to drive one to gauge the steering and feel of the car but my thoughts at the moment are that I prefer the looks, gearbox , interior and attitude of the M3.

Real shame about the styling, the old one looked great to my eyes.

I'll need to drive one too. Reviews are great as a starting point but there's no substitute for a proper test drive.

Also, at least for me, seeing the F8X in person cemented it as a good-looking car. At first, I thought it looked a bit too similar to the M Sport F30/F32 3/4-Series variants. But, in person, the details really pop (especially the beefy fender flares). As I mentioned in my initial review, the only letdown was the blandness of the rear (including lack of diffuser) and the new, slant-cut exhaust tips. The aftermarket has taken care of both of those issues, fortunately.

I think that the W205 will look better in lighter colors. It seems that darker shades hide some of the signature details. For example, this white W205 seems to show off some of the W205's unique design cues, like the twin power domes on the hood and the carbon fiber inlays on the A-wing front splitter:

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Accurate synopsis. Both cars are better then their predecessor, except the F8X is lacking in The aural department. But the C63 is really lacking in the aggressive looks department. Their one weak spot each.

Both excellent cars.

Thanks. And agreed. It's kind of a case of reversal. Whereas the E9X M3 was a somewhat conservative design (at least, in my eyes), the F8X became much more aggressive looking. Before, it seemed like the M3 had been the sleeper performance gem.

Now, the C63 has become a little less radical in terms of design, borrowing several cues from the E63 and S63 Coupe (which was actually very well-received, stylistically). It will be interesting to see what the coupe version of the W205 looks like down the road.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

Seems like a great car which also makes some brutal power! I would love to drive one someday.

The deal breakers for me are no manual option and the exterior looks. I just can't get over the droopy exterior (flame surfaced?). The f80 looks far more aggressive and does a better job at projecting youth and sportiness, IMO.

The interior on the other hand is purely art! I think BMW has a lot to learn here.

Also, it seems that MB AMG had no problems creating delicious engine and exhaust sounds despite the turbocharging (looking at you BMW M).

Uhm yeah cause its still a V8. No wonder they can make it sound like a v8..............

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Thanks man. I truly appreciate the kind words.

The comical thing is that I will likely own an F8X at some point (and a W205 as well). Both cars have attributes I like/dislike. I just don't feel the need to tear down other cars to prop up whatever purchase I made. I'd rather appreciate them both for their respective strengths and weaknesses.

On other boards (which I won't reference by name as my only concern here is this community), the F8X gets slammed for sounding like a "lawnmower" and for having "Active Sound." And I go to great lengths explaining that the car sounds very purposeful and aggressive in person and that there is no way that one could differentiate "real sound" from "Active Sound."

Not that you or the C63 need any defending, but the general nature of the the attacks and complaints in this thread show MB has a hit. Previous gens could be easily dismissed because of sloppy handling and poor transmission. Not this time around.

Unless there is a hidden Achilles heel the reviews haven't shown, the C63 is more than a match for the M3/4.

This thread is turning into an Apple/Android discussion. If you are truly an auto enthusiast and not a fanboy, you have to admit the C63 has hit the mark.

Styling could be better and the MCT may be less pleasing, but neither are atrocious and come down more to personal taste. Between the ATS-V, M3/M4, and C63 are all fantastic cars and as far as the latter two either one is a great choice.

I still plan on getting the M3 for various reasons, but most are purely subjective and there are some aspects on the C63 that I will wish were on the M3.

In the end I am really happy the C63 is this good as it will force BMW to keep their full focus on continued M development.

[Fahrvergnügen]

No Manual? What's the point? It's a good alternative to Cadillac though.

4,000 pounds without an AWD system? What did they put in there?

No coupe yet?

Also, from the pictures and the two auto shows I have been to this year, it is hard to distinguish this from a regular C-class.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by OneRib

Not that you or the C63 need any defending, but the general nature of the the attacks and complaints in this thread show MB has a hit. Previous gens could be easily dismissed because of sloppy handling and poor transmission. Not this time around.

Unless there is a hidden Achilles heel the reviews haven't shown, the C63 is more than a match for the M3/4.

This thread is turning into an Apple/Android discussion. If you are truly an auto enthusiast and not a fanboy, you have to admit the C63 has hit the mark.

Styling could be better and the MCT may be less pleasing, but neither are atrocious and come down more to personal taste. Between the ATS-V, M3/M4, and C63 are all fantastic cars and as far as the latter two either one is a great choice.

I still plan on getting the M3 for various reasons, but most are purely subjective and there are some aspects on the C63 that I will wish were on the M3.

In the end I am really happy the C63 is this good as it will force BMW to keep their full focus on continued M development.

And just like those ridiculous Apple versus Android discussions, it ultimately boils down to user preference.

At this point, both cars are entirely competent in areas that they previously weren't over their past generations. The result means that they're closer as a product with fewer separating points to highlight strength and weakness. It's not a comparison of a ballerina and a hobbling fat man; it's not a torqueless scalpel versus a brute musclecar; they're both so close in competency and overall nature that it's "whose sounds better," "whose looks better," and "which one would I enjoy driving around the most."

You can't point out any glaring faults these days. I think they're both appealing propositions, despite the two taking the segment further away from my personal preferences with the whooshie mills and ridiculous performance envelopes that aren't able to be fully enjoyed on a public backroad.

If only these sedans weren't measured and sold based on how fast they are, and instead you could just focus on how fun they are. The whole one-upping track stats and lap times is ruining the categories IMO (and others for that matter).