World Motorsports: VF HEX Tune with Dyno

[World Motorsports]

We tuned a customers M4 the other day with the Stage 1 VF HEX Tune and we were very happy with the results.

We can do all HEX Tune ECU tunes in house at our facility in Los Angeles. This tune was done on a completely stock BMW M4. We also have a complete installation and fabrication facility so we can handle any of your needs.

Take a look at the before and after graph. This customer is extremely happy with the results and more impressed with how the car feels.

[Sleeper]

Good deltas, but that dip at 3,500 is disappointing. That's dramatic enough that you'd feel it during a pull.

[BMW M4 PWR]

Am I reading this graph right or there no net power increase by 6900rpm on... lol? :/

[chewbakam4]

Not bad in midrange but too wavy down low and only 19whp gained from stock to tuned up top?

[BMW M4 PWR]

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

Not bad in midrange but too wavy down low and only 19whp gained from stock to tuned up top?

Umm, even worst, ZERO power/or torque gain from 6900rpm on up! Wtf!? lol

[1FastS4]

The peak numbers and the area under the curve still look really good. I just wonder if the fact that this particular dyno has an amazing fan system has anything to do with the stock numbers being better than average?

Overall it's hard to be disappointed with 457 horsepower and 514 foot pounds of torque on a Mustang 4 wheel drive dyno. A lot of tunes and piggybacks don't even get anywhere near that on a Dynojet 2 wheel drive.

[World Motorsports]

Don't look at the dyno graph as making less tuned power up top, look at it as making more power stock up top. I will explain why.

You start to see a lot of changes to dyno graphs when you start using a dyno that can simulate true airspeed into the cars engine as simulated on the street. Since we installed the wind tunnel side of our dyno operation, everything that we see on the dyno graph has changed a lot. All of a sudden our (Heartbreaker) Mustang Dyno isn't so much of a heartbreaker anymore.

The easiest thing to see that is different is the intake air temperature as this can be monitored on the screen while the car is making its dyno run. On our cars (mostly turbo AMG's) we used to see the intake air temperature go up as high as 140°F during a run. This was before we had the wind tunnel and we just used large industrial fans like most dyno shops. Now, we see these temperatures DROPPING during a run, we see the intake air temperature drop as much as 30°F as the RPM increases and the windspeed increases to match the cars speed on the dyno. This is exactly what is happening to your intake air temperature as you are driving on the street.

What do you think happens when you are driving in 4th or 5th gear at 6500-7000RPM and your intake air temperature is at 75°F? Now what do you think happens when you do the same scenario with your intake air temperature at 140°F? As you can imagine, you are going to be way down on horsepower and torque when the temperature is that high. Many cars will start to pull timing when your cars intake temperature gets that high.

It is very hard to compare what you see on our dyno as opposed to what you will see on another dyno. The fans used in our dyno room were the most expensive part of our dyno facility. We spent that kind of money on the fans because we know how important they really are.

Compare our dyno graphs to other dyno graphs available and you will see the what's going on. Without proper airflow you are really hurting the cars efficiency which becomes obvious.

The factory turbos are likely also maxed out. When you start increasing the air temperature significantly they are working really hard to compress that air and they are having a very hard time doing it. Once the boost is turned up with a tune they manage to compress more air but imagine how much more heat they are making.

In todays car business, the most important goal for a car manufacturer is efficiency. This all comes down to fuel mileage and emissions. The turbos that are on these cars are built to work efficiently in the operating range of the engine, they are not designed to be used outside of that range. This is why you see all the power from these turbos before peak. Our stock run makes more power up top simply due to our ability to control the air in our dyno room. I would wait for a few weeks until we have some bigger turbos on this car and then we can see what the dyno graph will look like, that's when things should start getting interesting.

Please feel free to ask me any questions. I am learning a lot with this new set up too but I am very open to hear everyones opinions.

[EALm4]

Who's on first Mike, is this consistent with your numbers or are you rocking the stage 2?

[VF-Engineering]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

The results are what you see here. Torque is falling-off hard after peak, to almost stock levels at rev-limiter. The low timing is also going to cause higher EGTs and couple that with stock downpipes (added back pressure), you have yourself an issue.

World Motorsports can correct me if I am wrong, but all of the stock and
tuned runs would have been performed with 91 Octane.


The results you see here are absolutely unique to this dyno, and in no other
circumstance (on any other dyno) have we seen stock horsepower levels
that are as consistent or optimistic as their wind tunnel dyno cell seems to
produce.

(IE: The S55 motor typically produces higher torque values than horsepower,
and in this particular scenario it is the other way around by a large margin.)

This is a result of the conditions within the dyno cell/wind tunnel creating a
particularly impressive stock power curve due to the decreasing IAT's as the
run progresses, (and with all due respect) more so than it is a validation of
your assessment.


You are correct that improved fuel quality will yield even better results, but
we have flashed HUNDREDS of Stage ONE cars for use with 91 Octane since
May of 2015, and have nothing but stellar reviews.

That being said, these engines do have particularly sensitive knock detection
and are highly susceptible to fuel quality, which is why we thoroughly test all
of our Stage Levels on 91 Octane, which is notoriously "not great".

Our thorough on-road & dyno testing, along with dozens of customer
reviews, independent dyno results, track results (time slips), and real world
experiences are proving themselves day in and day out more than the
scrutiny of this singular dyno result.

We'll see more and more F8X cars run in this dyno cell over the next few
weeks/months, which I'm certain will further prove consistent and reliable
power delivery and continued customer satisfaction.

[clutchdj]

Is this plot on the latest stage 1 (updated) file?

[VF-Engineering]

Originally Posted by clutchdj

Is this plot on the latest stage 1 (updated) file?

Yes.

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by EALm4

Who's on first Mike, is this consistent with your numbers or are you rocking the stage 2?

Just running Stage 1. Got the new phone last Friday, and haven't put my photos back on this one yet.

I'll get my 2nd (good fuel) run uploaded this evening.

I know we did a stock and Stage 1 back to back with 10% load.. delta was
74hp
83tq

If I'm remembering correctly.

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by EALm4

Who's on first Mike, is this consistent with your numbers or are you rocking the stage 2?

Here's my dyno runs on a loaded, properly ventilated, dyno.

Two Stock
Three Stage 1

EDIT--- My car was running a steady 6.5-7.0 degrees of positive timing.

Right in line with what a tuned car should do.

[BMW M4 PWR]

Originally Posted by clutchdj

You have to take what it said as a grain of salt when deciding on tunes or just mods in general and continue to do your homework. Anyone can identify something that's "wrong" and discet it. What I mean is talk to folks that actually have the tune or that mod you're persuing; speak with the engineers that have actually written the file then make your decision based on that.

The inevitable fallacy with THAT^ course of action is the "engineer," as you want to call them, aren't going to publicly (or privately in many cases) admit their tunes issues. Or in many cases understand the concern themselves otherwise they wouldn't of written it that way in the first place. No offense, but *IF* HEX is making their power by running these astronomically high boost numbers (24#'s on 91oct lol) and desensitizing the knock thresholds and other factory safeguards then I would not only caution anyone on buying it, but moreover would consider what they're doing highly wreckless* Personally I don't think they've removed the important safeguards though, which is WHY the car on the dyno is dying up top lol. (Again, without being able to see exactly what they changed in the software I cannot say that. Cary's observations on the dyno are as accurate as one could infer from just looking at the chart and having limited information. I came to the same obvious conclusions. That's two different people with extensive tuning experience not in contact coming to the same conclusion)

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by BMW M4 PWR

The inevitable fallacy with THAT^ course of action is the "engineer," as you want to call them, aren't going to publicly (or privately in many cases) admit their tunes issues. Or in many cases understand the concern themselves otherwise they wouldn't of written it that way in the first place. No offense, but *IF* HEX is making their power by running these astronomically high boost numbers (24#'s on 91oct lol) and desensitizing the knock thresholds and other factory safeguards then I would not only caution anyone on buying it, but moreover would consider what they're doing highly wreckless* (But again, without being able to see exactly what they changed in the software I cannot say that. Cary's observations on the dyno are as accurate as one could infer from just looking at the chart and having limited information. I came to the same obvious conclusions. That's two different people with extensive tuning experience not in contact coming to the same conclusion)

Here's a serious question. You were there when my car was pulling timing, due to bad fuel.

If my tune was desensitizing knock thresholds, would that still have happened?

[BMW M4 PWR]

Originally Posted by Who's on first

Here's a serious question. You were there when my car was pulling timing, due to bad fuel.

If my tune was desensitizing knock thresholds, would that still have happened?

No, I don't believe it would of... your timing dropped to literally -2 degrees at one point. Then back up to 6 degrees after the E85 mix we put in your car, so there's "some" safeguards certainly there. Have they ALL been untouched we cannot know without looking at the file..? I actually mentioned this part of it in my "edited" dissertation above lol. Mike are you going 'stage 2' with catless DP's as well?

[Skasol]

Originally Posted by clutchdj

You have to take what it said as a grain of salt when deciding on tunes or just mods in general and continue to do your homework. Anyone can identify something that's "wrong" and discet it. What I mean is talk to folks that actually have the tune or that mod you're persuing; speak with the engineers that have actually written the file then make your decision based on that.

I definitely agree and understand this. I have a couple friends with the tune that experience some of the same issues experience here on the thread, at that point I pumped my brakes waiting to see when and if HEX was going to do anything to support their clients, which they did update the file. So at least when it comes to actively listening to the feedback of customers they are doing that. I want to get this tune as I missed on ordering the competition package but not at the expense of any safety concerns or drivability. The "engineer" is going to say their file is good, their intention is to sell their file.

[Skasol]

Originally Posted by BMW M4 PWR

The inevitable fallacy with THAT^ course of action is the "engineer," as you want to call them, aren't going to publicly (or privately in many cases) admit their tunes issues. Or in many cases understand the concern themselves otherwise they wouldn't of written it that way in the first place. No offense, but *IF* HEX is making their power by running these astronomically high boost numbers (24#'s on 91oct lol) and desensitizing the knock thresholds and other factory safeguards then I would not only caution anyone on buying it, but moreover would consider what they're doing highly wreckless* Personally I don't think they've removed the important safeguards though, which is WHY the car on the dyno is dying up top lol. (Again, without being able to see exactly what they changed in the software I cannot say that. Cary's observations on the dyno are as accurate as one could infer from just looking at the chart and having limited information. I came to the same obvious conclusions. That's two different people with extensive tuning experience not in contact coming to the same conclusion)

Thank you.

[Skasol]

Originally Posted by BMW M4 PWR

No, I don't believe it would of... your timing dropped to literally -2 degrees at one point. Then back up to 6 degrees after the E85 mix we put in your car, so there's "some" safeguards certainly there. Have they ALL been untouched we cannot know without looking at the file..? I actually mentioned this part of it in my "edited" dissertation above lol. Mike are you going 'stage 2' with catless DP's as well?

This was my intention, stage 2 catless DP but I had to brake on all of this.
Mike, are you going stage 2? Which exhaust system do you have?

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by BMW M4 PWR

No, I don't believe it would of... your timing dropped to literally -2 degrees at one point. Then back up to 6 degrees after the E85 mix we put in your car, so there's "some" safeguards certainly there. Have they ALL been untouched we cannot know without looking at the file..? I actually mentioned this part of it in my "edited" dissertation above lol. Mike are you going 'stage 2' with catless DP's as well?

Stage 1 and done baby. Had DP's on the last one.

Just not worth it to me anymore.

With the tune/MPE.. that's all the sound I need.

[BMW M4 PWR]

Originally Posted by Who's on first

Stage 1 and done baby. Had DP's on the last one.

Just not worth it to me anymore.

With the tune/MPE.. that's all the sound I need.

Damn, I would of liked to go back to that same dyno to measure exactly the net differences. And log the timing figures with Frank's tool too..

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by BMW M4 PWR

Damn, I would of liked to go back to that same dyno to measure exactly the net differences. And log the timing figures with Frank's tool too..

Alrighty.

Buy the DP's.. and I'll do it.