M3/M4 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by IS350

Thanks for the review! Great stuff. Think you'd get similar times in the BMW, assuming no faults?

Appreciate the supercharge info. Think the South Carolina per minute charge is comparable to the per KW charge? Just want to make sure I'm crunching numbers correctly. Guessing 60K miles would equate to around the $5k credit?

Still, something lucrative about never paying for a charge if I keep the car for 6 or 7 years.

I think it's track dependent. On a track with more high speed sections, like laguna seca, m3/m4 should be quite a bit faster. On a track that's slower like streets of willow I expect it would be close.

There's a Canadian company developing parts for model 3 and they are putting in great times at their local track,TMP, but that's a relatively short and lower speed track.

As I've said before, it's not a good idea to get one planning for it as a "dual use" car. 4000lb is just too much. And I doubt supercharger coverage is as good in most places as Ca.

Sc speed varies based on how charged the battery is, how hot it is outside, etc. I think you need to ask owners living in SC how long it takes them to get a full charge.

i think you might be overestimating the value of unlimited sc. tesla used to sell it for $2k

[IS350]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I think it's track dependent. On a track with more high speed sections, like laguna seca, m3/m4 should be quite a bit faster. On a track that's slower like streets of willow I expect it would be close.

There's a Canadian company developing parts for model 3 and they are putting in great times at their local track,TMP, but that's a relatively short and lower speed track.

As I've said before, it's not a good idea to get one planning for it as a "dual use" car. 4000lb is just too much. And I doubt supercharger coverage is as good in most places as Ca.

Sc speed varies based on how charged the battery is, how hot it is outside, etc. I think you need to ask owners living in SC how long it takes them to get a full charge.

i think you might be overestimating the value of unlimited sc. tesla used to sell it for $2k

Thanks for the detail!

How long Ago did Tesla offer unlimited supercharging for $2k?

Meanwhile, here is a very non-technical comparison video I did on my BMW and Tesla, mostly just appearance, but hopefully this helps people who are on the fence. If able, please like and comment, thanks!

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by IS350

Thanks for the detail!

How long Ago did Tesla offer unlimited supercharging for $2k?

Meanwhile, here is a very non-technical comparison video I did on my BMW and Tesla, mostly just appearance, but hopefully this helps people who are on the fence. If able, please like and comment, thanks!

Enjoyed the video. If you still have access to both a good interior comparison would be nice. Specially seating position. I found from our test drive of the M3P that I felt I was sitting too high and couldn't get low enough to out the steering wheel in a comfortable position (kind of like driving a truck). Although the test drive was rather quick. Have you found the same? In my F80 I feel like I am sitting on the floor, and for someone with my height it's perfect.

[IS350]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Enjoy the video. If you still have access to both a good interior comparison would be nice. Specially seating position. I found from our test drive of the M3P that I felt I was sitting too high and couldn't get low enough to out the steering wheel in a comfortable position (kind of like driving a truck). Although the test drive was rather quick. Have you found the same? In my F80 I feel like I am sitting on the floor, and for someone with my height it's perfect.

Thanks! I've not noticed a lack of depth in the Tesla, but definitely less bolster support, and overall much less firm. That said, on trips, I like the comfort. On the track, I'm sure I'd miss the BMW's seats, I just seldom track much, lately.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by IS350

Thanks for the detail!

How long Ago did Tesla offer unlimited supercharging for $2k?

Meanwhile, here is a very non-technical comparison video I did on my BMW and Tesla, mostly just appearance, but hopefully this helps people who are on the fence. If able, please like and comment, thanks!

How long will you keep your bmw ? Drag race them!

I looked at the time of use charts for Charleston SC (not sure where you live) and it seemed like it's $.105 per kWh off peak. So driving 60k miles would cost you about $2k. Factor in $1k if you have to pay for a L2 charger and install without any rebates

It's going to be a lot of mileage to make keeping your unlimited SC worth it

You are right about the seats. They are definitely comfort oriented. I had to brace myself with my left leg when driving at the track, and had to hang on with the steering wheel also. Not ideal, and the vinyl lets you slide too much. The f80 cloth seats were much better for sport driving

[IS350]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

How long will you keep your bmw ? Drag race them!

I looked at the time of use charts for Charleston SC (not sure where you live) and it seemed like it's $.105 per kWh off peak. So driving 60k miles would cost you about $2k. Factor in $1k if you have to pay for a L2 charger and install without any rebates

It's going to be a lot of mileage to make keeping your unlimited SC worth it

You are right about the seats. They are definitely comfort oriented. I had to brace myself with my left leg when driving at the track, and had to hang on with the steering wheel also. Not ideal, and the vinyl lets you slide too much. The f80 cloth seats were much better for sport driving

Unfortunately the BMW is gone. Happily, I have just one payment. And, a quicker car, at most legal speeds, lol.

Thanks for the calculations, so in Myrtle Beach I just need to find out what my power company charges me per kilowatt hour to get your math? The 60,000 miles was based on all supercharging to get $2k?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by IS350

Unfortunately the BMW is gone. Happily, I have just one payment. And, a quicker car, at most legal speeds, lol.

Thanks for the calculations, so in Myrtle Beach I just need to find out what my power company charges me per kilowatt hour to get your math? The 60,000 miles was based on all supercharging to get $2k?

Yes that's correct. You need to review the time of use plans and get the $ per kwh your company will charge you.

In 3k miles of driving, I have been averaging 285wh per mile, or 3.5 miles per kilowatt

60000 miles / 3.5 miles per kwh x $0.105 per kwh = $1,800

I used the cost to charge at home, because that's what you'd be doing most of the time if you gave up the free super charging.

In SC, the Super charger cost is per minute, not per kwh, so that's a trickier calculation. My estimate is $0.158/kwh, based on $6 cost to charge for 30 minutes at an SC and getting about 38kwh in that time

Edit: fun fact... I got about 22mpg combined in my f80 so 60k miles would cost $10.4k assuming $3.80/gallon fuel cost.... 5x cost of EV!

[Gavyne]

Since you guys track, you may enjoy this: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...ov-8-9.133736/

Cameron Rogers is going to drive a Performance Model 3 at the Global Time Attack event Superlap @ Buttonwillow Raceway. The P3D is going to get modded by Mountain Pass Performance, so it should be a nice competition.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Gavyne

Since you guys track, you may enjoy this: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...ov-8-9.133736/

Cameron Rogers is going to drive a Performance Model 3 at the Global Time Attack event Superlap @ Buttonwillow Raceway. The P3D is going to get modded by Mountain Pass Performance, so it should be a nice competition.

Oh man, I'm traveling to ATL those days

Thanks for the heads up

[IS350]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Yes that's correct. You need to review the time of use plans and get the $ per kwh your company will charge you.

In 3k miles of driving, I have been averaging 285wh per mile, or 3.5 miles per kilowatt

60000 miles / 3.5 miles per kwh x $0.105 per kwh = $1,800

I used the cost to charge at home, because that's what you'd be doing most of the time if you gave up the free super charging.

In SC, the Super charger cost is per minute, not per kwh, so that's a trickier calculation. My estimate is $0.158/kwh, based on $6 cost to charge for 30 minutes at an SC and getting about 38kwh in that time

Edit: fun fact... I got about 22mpg combined in my f80 so 60k miles would cost $10.4k assuming $3.80/gallon fuel cost.... 5x cost of EV!

Thanks for crunching those numbers!

I'm leaning toward your advice on the free supercharging return, was hoping to just use my dryer outlet but it doesn't use the same outlet as the Tesla adapter, so I will need to probably get a hold of an electrician.

As much as I love that F80, I really don't miss it as much as I thought I would. Especially after this Tesla nearly drove me 150 miles yesterday, without much intervention. It's like a place of zen, when I'm not ripping 0-60 runs in 3.2 tics or so. [IMG][/IMG]

[shay2nak]

Other than the fact the TM3 looks like this...



I wouldn't mind having a black one as a DD.

[IS350]

Haha, I can see a small resemblance. There is a more aggressive front fascia out there:
https://unpluggedperformance.com/pro...ascia-model-3/

Meanwhile here is my comparison of the interiors/seating heights of these cars. Please subscribe to this channel if you enjoyed the topic.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by IS350

Thanks for crunching those numbers!

I'm leaning toward your advice on the free supercharging return, was hoping to just use my dryer outlet but it doesn't use the same outlet as the Tesla adapter, so I will need to probably get a hold of an electrician.

As much as I love that F80, I really don't miss it as much as I thought I would. Especially after this Tesla nearly drove me 150 miles yesterday, without much intervention. It's like a place of zen, when I'm not ripping 0-60 runs in 3.2 tics or so. [IMG][/IMG]

Just get a different adapter. https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-s_x_3-gen-2-nema-adapters.html

Electric dryer outlet + the charger that came with the car is ideal.

Agreed. My 70 miles drive to and from the track were super comfy.

Have you gotten the latest software yet? The navigate on autopilot is pretty neat. My car suggests lane changes and takes the highway exit by itself.

The things I miss about f80, are the cloth seats, with more bolstering and more thigh support.

[IS350]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Just get a different adapter. https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-s_x_3-gen-2-nema-adapters.html

Electric dryer outlet + the charger that came with the car is ideal.

Agreed. My 70 miles drive to and from the track were super comfy.

Have you gotten the latest software yet? The navigate on autopilot is pretty neat. My car suggests lane changes and takes the highway exit by itself.

The things I miss about f80, are the cloth seats, with more bolstering and more thigh support.

Thanks, probably need to rewire my outlets since even with the adapter of my dryer is inside my home not in my garage would probably be a pain to run an extension cord to the garage every night.

Yes, I was on able to try out Navigate in Autopilot just once since sadly there aren't a lot of highways inear my house. I tried Mad Max mode it didn't seem to be all that aggressive but I love the concept, did you see that updated auto summon detail for next year?

As much as I miss the BMW bolstering I love how comfy these seats are on long trips.

Btw, thoughts?
https://unpluggedperformance.com/pro...ascia-model-3/

[nicknaz]

IS350 good call on electrician. Don't use an extension cord in any way shape or form to charge your car

Wheels and tires will be my first mod. Not sure how I feel about reducing the ground clearance of the battery by lowering the car.

Unlikely to get a body kit. I'm not even sure I'll use the carbon spoiler... want to keep my car as sleeper as possible.

[IS350]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

IS350 good call on electrician. Don't use an extension cord in any way shape or form to charge your car

Wheels and tires will be my first mod. Not sure how I feel about reducing the ground clearance of the battery by lowering the car.

Unlikely to get a body kit. I'm not even sure I'll use the carbon spoiler... want to keep my car as sleeper as possible.

Thanks, yes. Electrician is my only likely option, beyond supercharging.

I hear ya on mods. I'll likely stay stock.

Do you think we'll ever get the spoiler? 😂

[Gavyne]

Track Mode rolls out today officially: https://www.tesla.com/blog/how-track..._medium=social

With a raving Motor Trends review of the official release version of Track Mode: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...ersion-review/

--snip--
Nearby, the Tesla engineers have more of a look of cool relief. Earlier, a Model 3 Performance—software-flashed with its latest Track mode nervous system and mounted with 10mm-wider Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s and track-friendly Brembo brake pads—had lapped the course in a 1:21.49. That hammers the 1:23.90 it set six weeks ago on its standard 235/35-20 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires under the software supervision of Track mode's earlier, wobblier prototype code.

What no one is quite saying out loud, though, is that a 1:21.49 snips a lifetime-like 1.29 seconds from Randy's recent lap in the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio. The new time essentially matches a 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4 and even beats a former Best Driver's Car winner, the 2011 Ferrari 458 Italia (1:22.30). Until the new BMW M3 shows up, that perches the Model 3 atop the podium as the world's quickest sport sedan—at least around this track.

[IS350]

Thanks for posting! This looks compelling, even without the tire upgrades.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Gavyne

Track Mode rolls out today officially: https://www.tesla.com/blog/how-track..._medium=social

With a raving Motor Trends review of the official release version of Track Mode: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...ersion-review/

--snip--
Nearby, the Tesla engineers have more of a look of cool relief. Earlier, a Model 3 Performance—software-flashed with its latest Track mode nervous system and mounted with 10mm-wider Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s and track-friendly Brembo brake pads—had lapped the course in a 1:21.49. That hammers the 1:23.90 it set six weeks ago on its standard 235/35-20 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires under the software supervision of Track mode's earlier, wobblier prototype code.

What no one is quite saying out loud, though, is that a 1:21.49 snips a lifetime-like 1.29 seconds from Randy's recent lap in the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio. The new time essentially matches a 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4 and even beats a former Best Driver's Car winner, the 2011 Ferrari 458 Italia (1:22.30). Until the new BMW M3 shows up, that perches the Model 3 atop the podium as the world's quickest sport sedan—at least around this track.

Woot. Thanks for posting. I'm definitely making sure my car is hooked up to wifi for the next couple of evenings.

Gt4 also uses cup2 tires. Crazy that a 4000lb EV can do a flying lap similar to a Porsche "GT" car.

Did Randy ever lap Big Willow with M4 CS or GTS? All I can find are m3 with PSS tires, not a fair comparison

[FC4]

Wait for it... “It can only do it for 3 laps.”

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by FC4

Wait for it... “It can only do it for 3 laps.”

No one with a 458 is rushing to trade in their Italian exotic for a Model 3.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

No one with a 458 is rushing to trade in their Italian exotic for a Model 3.

Is anyone with an exotic gas sports car rushing to trade it in for an f80 m3 CS, or Alfa QV or any of the 4 dr sports sedans?

Anyone who is seriously into tracking will keep a competition prepped car (of whatever type their budget allows) around anyway, and just plays around tracking street cars because it's fun to track your street car commuter sometimes. Doesn't matter if it's a F80, or c63 or model 3 or whatever.

You are right btw, model 3 can lap until the battery runs out, and engineers have told owners to expect 3% worsening in times. So a 1:21 would be a 1:23 or so.