Custom E85 & FlexFuel Tuning: Reviews of Different Tuners (MHD, BM3, & EcuTek))

[ShopVac]

Originally Posted by F80RN

I’m Bend tuned via BM3/PTF Flexfuel

That being said, depending on your goals vs setup (current and/or future) Ian will also recommend what is worth your time and money. When he asked me to inform him of my future upgrade plans “so you aren’t throwing money away” on necessary vs unnecessary purchases is where I was sold on. I don’t have endless pockets, so it was actually refreshing to have someone take that into consideration when looking at where to spend money.

Are their costs about the same as others? May reach out to them...

[F80RN]

Originally Posted by ShopVac

Are their costs about the same as others? May reach out to them...

I’d say reach out to them. I haven’t compared the price I paid to others, however I think it’s fair to say what I paid and the response throughout the tuning process I received was worth the price.

[hellokitty]

Which one of ya’ll did this? LMAO

[F80RN]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Which one of ya’ll did this? LMAO

Sorry man…ridiculous that I have to fill out a questionnaire about my car so the tuner can identify my goals.

[slaughter.mode]

That's wild. LOL.

[Wanted_M]

F80RN It's setting the expectations between you and the tuner. I agree with Bend, if you don't list the mods and your goals, how can they achieve your target?
You'll end up disappointed and pissed at the tuner for wasting your time and for taking your hard earned $$... I've seen this plenty of times, my car only did X but should have done Y.. Well, choose your mods wisely. These guys know what works and what doesn't, trust the process and you'll end up with a solid tune. You only get back what you put into it.
My .02c.

[F80RN]

Originally Posted by Wanted_M

F80RN It's setting the expectations between you and the tuner. I agree with Bend, if you don't list the mods and your goals, how can they achieve your target?
You'll end up disappointed and pissed at the tuner for wasting your time and for taking your hard earned $$... I've seen this plenty of times, my car only did X but should have done Y.. Well, choose your mods wisely. These guys know what works and what doesn't, trust the process and you'll end up with a solid tune. You only get back what you put into it.
My .02c.

Oh I know that. I went with Bend; to say I was very happy with their service is an understatement. Wasn’t sure if my sarcasm translated well

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by F80RN

Oh I know that. I went with Bend; to say I was very happy with their service is an understatement. Wasn’t sure if my sarcasm translated well

😂 guess not everyone knows the history like some of us. I knew you were joking.

[slaughter.mode]

Had an update to my Bend tune (2 revisions, so now 5 total). I had filled up with full E85 one day (result was E72) and afterwards while driving home I noticed it was not idling too smoothly and received two DME codes for mixture too rich and large deviation. Car even stalled on me after choking at almost every stop then go situation. Sent the logs in and Bend sent a new revision same day. Did a bit more logging and sent it in and I just received another revision and was asked to verify how it feels now. Now I'm at E79 and I believe it's fully dialed in, just waiting on confirmation on their end with the logs.

The reason I went out of my way to mention this is because we already called it a wrap months ago and they still took the time give me further revisions which is just great customer service and another big +1 from me for Bend.

Before anyone thinks "well, why did you even need to get this done at all if you were done?" I can explain. I was at the 5K mark and decided to swap my spark plugs (NGK F8S). Upon removal there was a bit of residual coolant from the engine swap. The used motor I had purchased had damage to the TMIC resulting in a bunch of coolant making it's way into the combustion chamber. The shop cleaned it up as much as they could but some dried up coolant remained. I'm sure it's mostly 'cooked' off from what I could see last time I poked around in there. The plugs were not super smooth to back out or re-install either but I'm just going to bet that it's again due to the residuals of the coolant. Will know more the next swap interval. The main thing about the plugs, some were gapped at .010! I definitely requested they be gapped at .019 so I'm not sure how/why that happened but I can confirm the new plugs @ .019 drive night and day different (in a good way) and I'm pretty sure that the gap variations may have had some negative impact on my initial tune and hence the need to change it. I had told them they were F8S plugs at .019 so they tuned accordingly. I'm sure the gap had some part to play in the high E content issues along with the fact they were slightly covered in coolant gunk.

[slaughter.mode]

Interesting update from Bend. I installed new engine + transmission mounts yesterday (RevShift 80A/Stock Feel) and had let Bend know about it since we were fine tuning idling. Poly mounts have a bit of NVH so it's harder to really gauge idle quality by feel anymore. Their response was that we need to do more WOT logging to make sure the NVH doesn't cause unwanted timing corrections (due to knock). Say what? I never considered that poly mounts would contribute to knock but I guess I'll find out later today when I WOT log.

Anyone else ever heard of that? I always viewed poly bushings on a pro:con scale of hardness:comfort but never considered this.

[Commanderwiggin]

I've seen solid engine mounts and my open wastegate dump increase the noise on my knock sensors for my S54 so this is totally normal. Depends on the knock detection frequency. For the engine mounts I think the only thing I'd ever upgrade is the GT4 style reinforcement brackets. https://www.bimmerworld.com/Engine/E...82-M4-GT4.html

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin

I've seen solid engine mounts and my open wastegate dump increase the noise on my knock sensors for my S54 so this is totally normal. Depends on the knock detection frequency. For the engine mounts I think the only thing I'd ever upgrade is the GT4 style reinforcement brackets. https://www.bimmerworld.com/Engine/E...82-M4-GT4.html

Makes sense. Ran a few random rips (2nd-4th) and I see no timing corrections. Bend concurs. Phew.

[n8dgr84]

Originally Posted by Idfkman

Does anyone have any experience with any of these tuners for a custom flex tune by chance?

AB Performance
HCP
F80Paul
PETuned
Egor’s Garage

Having a hard time choosing a BM3 tuner.

I’m leaning towards Bend but I’d like to stay on BM3 with EU5 injectors. Bend has some concerns with running EU5’s on BM3 which I appreciate. He’d need me to swap to Ecutek.

I really like the ability to quickly flash to stock when need be on BM3 for emissions and what not. Also the price to swap to Ecutek is a consideration too.

I have the F80Paul Flex Fuel tune.
Overall I'd say I'm a 7/10 with the service.
Paul doesn't communicate with anyone anymore so after he revises the initial tune, you get his sidekicks. They are ok at responding but don't do much to help.
They don't do many revisions (like Bend) even if you have timing corrections without more money which is a bit disappointing. IE They want $350 to look over dyno runs.
That said, the only thing that hasn't been resolved is the cold start rough idle, as hellokitty documented, but that goes away for me after the 30 second cat warmup cycle.

Doing a full multimap setup with them is probably $2k so I just went with the Flex Fuel and it is doing a decent job.

The ability to go to an OTS CS map for road racing or stock for valet is nice.

Any questions lmk.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by n8dgr84

I have the F80Paul Flex Fuel tune.
Overall I'd say I'm a 7/10 with the service.
Paul doesn't communicate with anyone anymore so after he revises the initial tune, you get his sidekicks. They are ok at responding but don't do much to help.
They don't do many revisions (like Bend) even if you have timing corrections without more money which is a bit disappointing. IE They want $350 to look over dyno runs.
That said, the only thing that hasn't been resolved is the cold start rough idle, as hellokitty documented, but that goes away for me after the 30 second cat warmup cycle.

Doing a full multimap setup with them is probably $2k so I just went with the Flex Fuel and it is doing a decent job.

The ability to go to an OTS CS map for road racing or stock for valet is nice.

Any questions lmk.

That's rough. Flex tunes are not easy to approach. They must be approached pragmatically which could even mean spanning seasons to complete depending on your climate range and maintenance quality. I actually started dealing with an egregious idle issue about a month ago with my once flawless Bend tune. I hit them up and they actually made a 4th and 5th revision, now I'm dialed in. They didn't ask me for a penny, they just got it right and quickly. The problem was actually mine. When I had my motor swapped I asked them to gap the F8S plugs @ .019 but upon recently swapping them at 5K, some of them were at .011 and even smaller. Not sure how the hell that happened but after I installed new F8S plugs at the right gap, my car HATED high E content. I'm fully dialed in now and it's flying even faster than it did before.

I've also raised a lot of fuss in ProTuningFreaks direction and they've been releasing big updates to the platform over the last few months that's keeping me engaged. I have spent bands on different tunes but I can say that if you go the Bend route you'll be very happy with what they produce, no question.

[Hotflare]

Originally Posted by slaughter.mode

That's rough. Flex tunes are not easy to approach. They must be approached pragmatically which could even mean spanning seasons to complete depending on your climate range and maintenance quality. I actually started dealing with an egregious idle issue about a month ago with my once flawless Bend tune. I hit them up and they actually made a 4th and 5th revision, now I'm dialed in. They didn't ask me for a penny, they just got it right and quickly. The problem was actually mine. When I had my motor swapped I asked them to gap the F8S plugs @ .019 but upon recently swapping them at 5K, some of them were at .011 and even smaller. Not sure how the hell that happened but after I installed new F8S plugs at the right gap, my car HATED high E content. I'm fully dialed in now and it's flying even faster than it did before.

I've also raised a lot of fuss in ProTuningFreaks direction and they've been releasing big updates to the platform over the last few months that's keeping me engaged. I have spent bands on different tunes but I can say that if you go the Bend route you'll be very happy with what they produce, no question.

What kind of updates?

[M2_MEDUSA]

Interesting, F80 paul gave me 8 revisions.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by Hotflare

What kind of updates?

Mostly updates to the interfacing with their V3 Wifi adapter but also some other issues with flashing, dashboard sync issues, and the list goes on and on. Oddly, they stopped posting their release notes on their website. The tl;dr is the V3 adapter has been unusable for almost 6 months, now it finally works on the F8X platform and it doesn't cause battery DTC codes. There's still issues, though. One is that you can't even read DTC codes via iOS (I have to use MHD, still). There's also performance synchronization issues that are making it take way too long to even start showing dashboard data. There's also an issue on the iOS app where custom tunes do NOT have the 'original' option for many of the configuration parameters. This is actually critical for my custom tune to be able to use it. 'OEM' does not give me a proper cold start (for example). I have to use my Windows machine with the BM3 desktop agent + run a super long ethernet cord from my office to the car just to tune it. Not ideal. It's at the point where I'm praising basic functionality where it should've just worked to begin with. Not ideal but I'm still supportive of the platform.

[Idfkman]

I’ve finally made up my mind on a tuner and setup. Originally I planned to go with Bend. However, I would have needed to swap to EcuTek to run EU5’s on his tune. He mentioned tables were missing with BM3 to properly calibrate EU5’s. With my car already having BM3 and their flex fuel module, switching to EcuTek and paying for the tune on top of that was more than I was willing to pay at this time. (My BM3 license isn’t transferrable.)

I chatted with quite a few tuners and have landed on working with Avtandil at AB Performance (ABP.) He’s tuned a ton of these cars from fully built single turbo cars to FBO E85 cars and his communication has been good.

I’ll be installing and calibrating new EU5 injectors and installing new 97506 (D8S) plugs hopefully this weekend then beginning the tuning process next week.

One unique point ABP made in our communications that I hadn’t seen before was that he recommended against the F8S “flex fuel plugs” for the reason qouted below.

“I recommend using this: OEM Part Number: 12120039664, NGK Part Number:SILZKBR8D8S spark plug instead of Flex-fuel F8S. I would get from the dealer with OE part number and gap to 0.024inches.

Flex Fuel Plug is 2mm higher reach than D8S and flex fuel one overheats and melts.
Under 0.024inch spark plug gap car can misfire and have poor idle.”

This was new to me but his logic makes sense and could be a reason for some of the cold start issues some have mentioned in this thread.

Looking forward to getting the tuning process started and reporting back results. Once we reach the final revisions I’ll get some dyno time to get some numbers for fun.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by Idfkman

I’ve finally made up my mind on a tuner and setup. Originally I planned to go with Bend. However, I would have needed to swap to EcuTek to run EU5’s on his tune. He mentioned tables were missing with BM3 to properly calibrate EU5’s. With my car already having BM3 and their flex fuel module, switching to EcuTek and paying for the tune on top of that was more than I was willing to pay at this time. (My BM3 license isn’t transferrable.)

I chatted with quite a few tuners and have landed on working with Avtandil at AB Performance (ABP.) He’s tuned a ton of these cars from fully built single turbo cars to FBO E85 cars and his communication has been good.

I’ll be installing and calibrating new EU5 injectors and installing new 97506 (D8S) plugs hopefully this weekend then beginning the tuning process next week.

One unique point ABP made in our communications that I hadn’t seen before was that he recommended against the F8S “flex fuel plugs” for the reason qouted below.

“I recommend using this: OEM Part Number: 12120039664, NGK Part Number:SILZKBR8D8S spark plug instead of Flex-fuel F8S. I would get from the dealer with OE part number and gap to 0.024inches.

Flex Fuel Plug is 2mm higher reach than D8S and flex fuel one overheats and melts.
Under 0.024inch spark plug gap car can misfire and have poor idle.”

This was new to me but his logic makes sense and could be a reason for some of the cold start issues some have mentioned in this thread.

Looking forward to getting the tuning process started and reporting back results. Once we reach the final revisions I’ll get [...]

Never heard that about the F8S plugs, I have almost 200k miles combined between two engines on my F82 and my F80 and never seen any melt or even show that they couldn’t go a few more thousand miles. I also gap mine at .019 per Bend’s recommendation. Curious to see how the tune ends up for you, hopefully very well! 🤞🏽

[Idfkman]

Originally Posted by slaughter.mode

Never heard that about the F8S plugs, I have almost 200k miles combined between two engines on my F82 and my F80 and never seen any melt or even show that they couldn’t go a few more thousand miles. I also gap mine at .019 per Bend’s recommendation. Curious to see how the tune ends up for you, hopefully very well! 🤞🏽

New to me as well. We shall see 🤞🏽

[Commanderwiggin]

The information ABP has given you is inaccurate.

Both plugs are an 8 heat range:
N20 Flex - SILZKBR8F8S
97506 - SILZKBR8D8S

Putting the plugs side by side you can see the N20 Flex plug has the same overall length, the same threads, just a longer shell which offers better heat transfer away from the insulator and center electrode in addition this is protecting the ceramic insulator which is extremely fragile.

I've tried all the plugs in addition to the NGK Racing Plugs 97537 which are a 9 heat range (*colder) plug which is overkill unless you're up into the 900+ range on these cars...it still ran decent but the Flex plugs were definitely better. I run a Racing plug on my E46 M3 with the slant/angled ground strap type that has the insulator inside the shroud and you can't even see it from the side. Even the S58 plugs which are the 96206 have the protective shroud over the insulator.

They're both good plugs...basically the same thing except one is slightly better

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin

The information ABP has given you is inaccurate.

Both plugs are an 8 heat range:
N20 Flex - SILZKBR8F8S
97506 - SILZKBR8D8S

Putting the plugs side by side you can see the N20 Flex plug has the same overall length, the same threads, just a longer shell which offers better heat transfer away from the insulator and center electrode in addition this is protecting the ceramic insulator which is extremely fragile.

I've tried all the plugs in addition to the NGK Racing Plugs 97537 which are a 9 heat range (*colder) plug which is overkill unless you're up into the 900+ range on these cars...it still ran decent but the Flex plugs were definitely better. I run a Racing plug on my E46 M3 with the slant/angled ground strap type that has the insulator inside the shroud and you can't even see it from the side. Even the S58 plugs which are the 96206 have the protective shroud over the insulator.

They're both good plugs...basically the same thing except one is slightly better

Nice. I was going to take a pic and upload it, saves me the trouble. OE is Bosch though, isn’t it? I have a bunch of old Bosch ones in here in my plug bin. It’s been so long I forgot.