S55 Blown Engine Failure *****UPDATE FROM BMWNA 9/28/15 *****

[yosman8]

Originally Posted by tcpsoft

I'm sorry, 150+ for any number of minutes doesn't seem that big of a deal to me for a car that was designed and built in the country that has the Autobahn, so I think they have no argument there. The car may have been at 152 and a lot of rpms at some point (whose hasn't ) but if you have a video showing the failure occurring at another speed / rpm that would seem like enough to put the burden of proof back in their court.

Manufacturers will do everything to avoid paying a major claim, just like an insurance company. If you're sure you're in the right, get a lawyer. Hopefully one letter with the video will settle things.

Even if it isn't an exclusion now, I'd stay away from submitting a claim with the insurance company until it becomes a last resort. Once they know you track the car they'll require you either stop tracking the car or cancel you. Or at least that's what I hear from the internet....

Good luck.

Trying to find a lawyer for this sort of thing, not having much luck. Where should I look?

[Taibeast]

Originally Posted by erind

Oh ok, So they wont pay for the engine?Warranty?
I know there was a similar topic here somewhere about a guy who "moneyshifted" and BMW paid for a new engine. He only paid 120$.

Believe that'd be me, mis-shifted after a 3rd gear redline meant to go into 4th but hit 2nd. I'm still undergoing the process of this with my insurance since warranty is out of the question the moment they see an over rev. I over rev'd to 9500 rpm though. The OP over rev'd only to 7700? To cause this much damage? That's insane. Take it up with your insurance asap as long as you have full coverage they should either full rebuild your engine or get you a brand new engine. Good luck.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by yosman8

Trying to find a lawyer for this sort of thing, not having much luck. Where should I look?

If you are a member of BMW CCA, contact an Ombudsman.

[yosman8]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

If you are a member of BMW CCA, contact an Ombudsman.

I'm not, should I become one?

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

An over-rev of only 150rpm is NOT going to cause this type of damage on a properly working high performance engine like the S55.

Something is amiss.

OP, are you sure of the RPMs BMW is saying you over-revved to?

[yosman8]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

An over-rev of only 150rpm is NOT going to cause this type of damage on a properly working high performance engine like the S55.

Something is amiss.

OP, are you sure of the RPMs BMW is saying you over-revved to?

Positive, spoke with the service and parts manager about it.

[erind]

Originally Posted by Taibeast

Believe that'd be me, mis-shifted after a 3rd gear redline meant to go into 4th but hit 2nd. I'm still undergoing the process of this with my insurance since warranty is out of the question the moment they see an over rev. I over rev'd to 9500 rpm though. The OP over rev'd only to 7700? To cause this much damage? That's insane. Take it up with your insurance asap as long as you have full coverage they should either full rebuild your engine or get you a brand new engine. Good luck.

Lol not a day passes by that I don't hit the rev limiter when changing gear. I hit the redline constantly. Heck one time I forgot to upshit while talking on the phone. . Can't imagine they would void my warranty for that

[mlovernotafighter]

This is ridiculous, over of 150rpms is nothing. People bounce off the rev limiter all the time. Regardless, you should build the case with evidence and then call / submit a complaint to that dealership's GM, and if you get nothing, go to BMW NA to escalate.

Why did you admit and document here you were on the track? not the best thing to say. People in Germany for example hit 150 mph or redline on the street, so what you drove fast on public roads very early one morning...that should have been the story, NOT, I was racing on the track revving the hell out of it.

[SakhirM4]

His answer should be honest - not made up to garner sympathy and money.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by yosman8

I am completely stock, and BMW is saying (after the Data Dump they did) that the car was over revved at 7722 rpm at 152 mph. I had the car in Sport throttle setting, not Sport+. For those F8X savvy owners out there, or 6MT owners, you'll know that in Sport the car won't rev match if the selected gear will result in an over rev of the engine on the downshift. It will leave the rpms at 0 and make you wind the engine to meet the gear by grinding your clutch basically, but in that time your speed will have dropped and hopefully you will be within the rpms of that selected gear. Now, I never did that. I'm not stupid. The point that I'm making is that with Sport throttle setting, it is damn near impossible to over rev the engine unless you straight clutch dump at high speed to a lower gear. WHICH I DID NOT DO. Nor did I downshift to a gear that the car did not auto-rev match itself.

Are you sure about that? I almost money shifted my 6MT going from 5th to 2nd gear instead of 4th while in sport and the car tried to rev match past redline. In fact, it was the super high RPM rev match that made me realize I had the shift lever in 2nd gear rather than 4th so I thankfully kept the clutch in.

I've never heard that rev match would drop your RPMs to zero if you're in too low of a gear. In fact, I know that is impossible as that would mean your engine would be turned off for the RPMs to be at zero. It could only go as low as idle (like 700 RPM).

[yosman8]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

Are you sure about that? I almost money shifted my 6MT going from 5th to 2nd gear instead of 4th while in sport and the car tried to rev match past redline. In fact, it was the super high RPM rev match that made me realize I had the shift lever in 2nd gear rather than 4th so I thankfully kept the clutch in.

I've never heard that rev match would drop your RPMs to zero if you're in too low of a gear. In fact, I know that is impossible as that would mean your engine would be turned off for the RPMs to be at zero. It could only go as low as idle (like 700 RPM).

Correct, I meant 700 not 0. Corrected in OP

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by yosman8

Correct, I meant 700 not 0. Corrected in OP

OK, but where is the source that indicates rev match won't work if you're in a gear that is too low? As I indicated, in my experience, my car tried to rev match past redline when I moved the gear lever from 5th to 2nd.

[yosman8]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

OK, but where is the source that indicates rev match won't work if you're in a gear that is too low? As I indicated, in my experience, my car tried to rev match past redline when I moved the gear lever from 5th to 2nd.

I guess I just haven't encountered the same scenario as you. I thought I remember it doing nothing, but I don't throw it into 2nd by accident anyway which is why I don't understand this problem.

[Vigilant]

OP...I do recall reading your previous thread about the road debris and the subsequent injury to your vehicle. I am not a mechanic, but can we consider the possibility that your engine and tranny were not "made whole" after the repair? The s55 engine has shown by many accounts to be a resilient engine with regards to track usage. Let's assume only 10% of folks with F8xs use the forum regularly, we should still hear/read about more engine failures with this activity.

I would recommend reviewing your previous repair work and see if any connection can be made with your current predicament.

[F83]

Originally Posted by Vigilant

OP...I do recall reading your previous thread about the road debris and the subsequent injury to your vehicle. I am not a mechanic, but can we consider the possibility that your engine and tranny were not "made whole" after the repair? The s55 engine has shown by many accounts to be a resilient engine with regards to track usage. Let's assume only 10% of folks with F8xs use the forum regularly, we should still hear/read about more engine failures with this activity.

I would recommend reviewing your previous repair work and see if any connection can be made with your current predicament.

My theory also. Your car encountered a hell of a lot of damage. What's more likely, overreving by 150 RPM, or the fact that when your entire underside was shredded (including your drive shaft) they missed some damage to the engine block that eventually went Nova?

Either way, your situation SUCKS! Good luck! Good advice here for you.

[Labeef]

Sounds like a money shift. Slowing for a corner after accelerating hard, it could happen. But I'm not here to judge. What mods do you have that would void warranty?

[Labeef]

Originally Posted by Vigilant

OP...I do recall reading your previous thread about the road debris and the subsequent injury to your vehicle. I am not a mechanic, but can we consider the possibility that your engine and tranny were not "made whole" after the repair? The s55 engine has shown by many accounts to be a resilient engine with regards to track usage. Let's assume only 10% of folks with F8xs use the forum regularly, we should still hear/read about more engine failures with this activity.

I would recommend reviewing your previous repair work and see if any connection can be made with your current predicament.

It's pissing coolant out of the oil drain, not the side of the blox which would be the case if the item the OP ran over did damage to the block.

[BEMR]

My 2.4 cents, after reading your stated facts, where you where, what you were doing, the computer log, temperatures, speeds, etc etc couldn't imagine BMW under those circumstances covering a motor warranty, my god you were on a track, and under those circumstances they'll call you out on the fine print "under normal driving conditions" you'll loose. And as far as an Attorney, waste of money and time, and as far as insurance, the motor failure would have to lead to some sort of catastrophic failure that the motor caused, and it caused nothing. Even the fact that you had a mechanic outside of BMW perform a diagnostic and services, also throws out an additional dynamic out of your favor. Sorry but that's just how I see it.

[Kortho]

Not to get off topic, but is there a way to go into the log history and delete over reving events?

[Reid]

Originally Posted by yosman8

I am completely stock, and BMW is saying (after the Data Dump they did) that the car was over revved at 7722 rpm at 152 mph. I had the car in Sport throttle setting, not Sport+. For those F8X savvy owners out there, or 6MT owners, you'll know that in Sport the car won't rev match if the selected gear will result in an over rev of the engine on the downshift. It will leave the rpms at 700 and make you wind the engine to meet the gear by grinding your clutch basically, but in that time your speed will have dropped and hopefully you will be within the rpms of that selected gear. Now, I never did that. I'm not stupid. The point that I'm making is that with Sport throttle setting, it is damn near impossible to over rev the engine unless you straight clutch dump at high speed to a lower gear. WHICH I DID NOT DO. Nor did I downshift to a gear that the car did not auto-rev match itself.

Any car with a manual transmission can be mechanically over revved by putting the car in too low of a gear for a given road speed. However, in your case, an over rev of 7722 is very minor and should not even be looked at as a cause of the current problem. On an interference engine that is significantly over revved, the valves will be bent due to contact with the pistons, and the damage will usually be restricted to those parts.

How long was your engine running without oil pressure after the first accident? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only repair made to the engine was a new oil pan. It sounds like the catastrophic failure of your engine is a result of previous damage the engine suffered due to lack of lubrication. It doesn't take much of a problem with lubrication to start wiping bearings.

I would contact your insurance company and let them know that the engine that they repaired previously has let go. Obviously it wasn't completely repaired the first time, and I would expect the insurance company to make your car whole again.

Good luck, and hopefully you'll be back on track soon.

[yosman8]

Originally Posted by Reid

Any car with a manual transmission can be mechanically over revved by putting the car in too low of a gear for a given road speed. However, in your case, an over rev of 7722 is very minor and should not even be looked at as a cause of the current problem. On an interference engine that is significantly over revved, the valves will be bent due to contact with the pistons, and the damage will usually be restricted to those parts.

How long was your engine running without oil pressure after the first accident? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only repair made to the engine was a new oil pan. It sounds like the catastrophic failure of your engine is a result of previous damage the engine suffered due to lack of lubrication. It doesn't take much of a problem with lubrication to start wiping bearings.

I would contact your insurance company and let them know that the engine that they repaired previously has let go. Obviously it wasn't completely repaired the first time, and I would expect the insurance company to make your car whole again.

Good luck, and hopefully you'll be back on track soon.

Definitely possible, my only question would be why has it taken 8,000 miles since that catastrophic accident for the issue to occur? We didn't get to the side of the road instantaneously obviously after hitting the object, so the engine was definitely running for a bit with little oil pressure. But BMW of Dallas' diagnostic tests all showed that the engine was fine. Again, I could believe that it had something to do with the accident, my only question would be: why now? There's definitely been spirited driving since the repair.

[F83]

Originally Posted by Reid

Any car with a manual transmission can be mechanically over revved by putting the car in too low of a gear for a given road speed. However, in your case, an over rev of 7722 is very minor and should not even be looked at as a cause of the current problem. On an interference engine that is significantly over revved, the valves will be bent due to contact with the pistons, and the damage will usually be restricted to those parts.

How long was your engine running without oil pressure after the first accident? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only repair made to the engine was a new oil pan. It sounds like the catastrophic failure of your engine is a result of previous damage the engine suffered due to lack of lubrication. It doesn't take much of a problem with lubrication to start wiping bearings.

I would contact your insurance company and let them know that the engine that they repaired previously has let go. Obviously it wasn't completely repaired the first time, and I would expect the insurance company to make your car whole again.

Good luck, and hopefully you'll be back on track soon.

Best advice here.