Problems with wheel studs rusting

JMon · 05-12-2017, 02:18 PM

On my pcars that were daily drivers that sometimes got taken out to the track for fun, I never used wheel studs. I just stuck with high quality 2 piece wheel/lug bolts. (My race cars had proper center locks)
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...-lug-bolty.jpg

But not finding anything like that for the F80 I went the wheel stud route. Got the best. MSI Studs and Zinc coated nuts. On my winter wheels, they don't stick out too far. On my stock rims, wow! but hey, only cosmetic.

Anyway, my issue is the maintenance of them. They are kind of maybe rusting.... not on the thread but the bull nose. Anyone else have this happen?

Are studs over rated? Was this probably one MOD too far for a street car that gets sometimes tracked?

tom @ eas · 05-12-2017, 02:21 PM

Are you using abrasive wheel cleaners? This will eat away at the zinc coating just like you have pictured.

JMon · 05-12-2017, 02:39 PM

Nope, just normal car soap.
The Studs are supposed to be "manganese phosphate finish" rather than zinc
The nuts are zinc (and not rusting)

tom @ eas · 05-12-2017, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMon

Nope, just normal car soap.
The Studs are supposed to be "manganese phosphate finish" rather than zinc
The nuts are zinc (and not rusting)

You're following the right steps, email to the supplier would be next in order.

SD ///M4 · 05-12-2017, 03:21 PM

My wife and I have stud conversion kits on all three of our BMWs and haven't had this problem. The sets for the 335is and the Z4 M Roadster were ordered about 5 years ago from Motorsport Hardware, owned by a friend of a friend. When I ordered the Apex EC-7 wheels as my track wheels about 9 months ago, I got their stud conversion kit because it was convenient and they shipped with the wheels.

I'm not sure that your experience would indicate that the MSI studs are "the best".

It probably rains a lot less here than VA though. I'd contact MSI.

I'm pretty sure that almost anyone that sells stud conversion kits sources them from the same overseas sources.

-JLT- · 05-13-2017, 05:31 AM

I've had my Macht Schnell studs for years now and no rusting issues. I'm in Chicago with snow/salt on the streets with no problems.

Fugazii · 05-15-2017, 05:49 PM

I wouldn't go with Zinc coated try and find anodized for the future. That word coated scares me.

tom @ eas · 05-15-2017, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugazii

I wouldn't go with Zinc coated try and find anodized for the future. That word coated scares me.

BMW uses factory zinc-coated lugs. As long as abrasive cleaners aren't used, you shouldn't see any problems.

Fugazii · 05-17-2017, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

BMW uses factory zinc-coated lugs. As long as abrasive cleaners aren't used, you shouldn't see any problems.

These are MSI not BMW.

I don't know how much you paid but price usually determines the quality in the coating. IND has some nice sets.

jmg · 10-15-2017, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

BMW uses factory zinc-coated lugs. As long as abrasive cleaners aren't used, you shouldn't see any problems.

I've noticed rust on my OEM lugs.

I've been using Adams Wheel cleaner, but I've also had to take the car to the local car wash (a sin, I know) so they might be causing it as well. Anyone recommend non-coated nuts?

x.shell · 10-16-2017, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugazii

I wouldn't go with Zinc coated try and find anodized for the future. That word coated scares me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugazii

These are MSI not BMW.

I don't know how much you paid but price usually determines the quality in the coating. IND has some nice sets.

You're reply here makes no sense. First you imply that MSI studs are not as good quality as BMW with an eyeroll towards Tom@EAS. Then you say that the quality is usually determined by pricing by pointing to IND having some nice studs.

I don't know if you know this, but the "nice sets" that you mention about IND selling, are Macht Schnell studs. Macht Schnell is practically sold exclusively through EAS. And if price is the determining factor and Macht Schnell are "nice sets", then you'll be shocked to find out that a Macht Schnell kit costs $150 while an MSI kit costs $430. That's because MSI kits are used across major motorsport events including NASCAR and ISMA racing series. I'm pretty sure MSI studs are a quality product.

And anodized stud kits? Really? I'd never use an aluminum wheel stud kit over a steel one.

OP, as Tom said, you should contact the supplier.

Fugazii · 10-24-2017, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exo-shell

You're reply here makes no sense. First you imply that MSI studs are not as good quality as BMW with an eyeroll towards Tom@EAS. Then you say that the quality is usually determined by pricing by pointing to IND having some nice studs.

I don't know if you know this, but the "nice sets" that you mention about IND selling, are Macht Schnell studs. Macht Schnell is practically sold exclusively through EAS. And if price is the determining factor and Macht Schnell are "nice sets", then you'll be shocked to find out that a Macht Schnell kit costs $150 while an MSI kit costs $430. That's because MSI kits are used across major motorsport events including NASCAR and ISMA racing series. I'm pretty sure MSI studs are a quality product.

And anodized stud kits? Really? I'd never use an aluminum wheel stud kit over a steel one.

OP, as Tom said, you should contact the supplier.

Try reading the post it will make sense. The top page shows MSI rusting is what you call quality? Sorry if you have a crush on Tom my bad.

I ordered a nice set from IND not (Macht Schnell) Pricy no problems no rust goodday!

x.shell · 10-25-2017, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugazii

Quote:

Originally Posted by exo-shell

You're reply here makes no sense. First you imply that MSI studs are not as good quality as BMW with an eyeroll towards Tom@EAS. Then you say that the quality is usually determined by pricing by pointing to IND having some nice studs.

I don't know if you know this, but the "nice sets" that you mention about IND selling, are Macht Schnell studs. Macht Schnell is practically sold exclusively through EAS. And if price is the determining factor and Macht Schnell are "nice sets", then you'll be shocked to find out that a Macht Schnell kit costs $150 while an MSI kit costs $430. That's because MSI kits are used across major motorsport events including NASCAR and ISMA racing series. I'm pretty sure MSI studs are a quality product.

And anodized stud kits? Really? I'd never use an aluminum wheel stud kit over a steel one.

OP, as Tom said, you should contact the supplier.

Try reading the post it will make sense. The top page shows MSI rusting is what you call quality? Sorry if you have a crush on Tom my bad.

I ordered a nice set from IND not (Macht Schnell) Pricy no problems no rust goodday!

Cool man.

jacobe92 · 12-10-2017, 08:58 AM

MSI

MaX PL · 03-25-2018, 10:31 AM

i'm having the same problem with my MSI studs.

they got very rusty during the winter. i used some 000 steel wool to take a bulk of the rust off but would like to figure out a way to coat them to prevent this in the future. some say to use anti seize while others say not to.

they were fine through most of last year as i did more frequent washes of the car, but it sat for longer periods during the winter and the rust developed.

i'm going to try contacting MSI for an opinion as non of my google searches have helped.

Woodengun · 03-25-2018, 11:10 PM

I have MSI studs and they have surface rust. I'm not worried at all. I got them because I track and do frequent wheel changes. Heat cycling during track days is what really stresses wheel bolts or studs.

I think the surface rust might be caused because I use a citrus (acidic pH I would think) based soap for washing. Car is washed weekly...sometimes a bit less frequent. Acid and salt will both make steel rust more quickly.

DB323 · 03-28-2018, 06:08 PM

Damn this sucks. I just purchased MSI studs as well for frequent wheel swaps. Anybody speak to MSI regarding this issue?

Also, is 20-25 ft pounds the correct torque specs for the 14x1.25 studs and 103 ft pounds for the lug nuts?

MasterP · 04-02-2018, 10:18 PM

MSI studs are Motorsport parts. I wouldn't expect them to cave to cosmetic oxidation complaints.

You buy MSI studs if you're concerned about fatigue from track use.

Shifteck, apex, MS, vorshlag, MSI, MRG, I've used them all. They all start to form a little bit of surface rust. I change them out every year or sooner when they break anyway.

If you're not really tracking and corrosion is an issue get titanium.

MasterP · 04-02-2018, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DB323

Damn this sucks. I just purchased MSI studs as well for frequent wheel swaps. Anybody speak to MSI regarding this issue?

Also, is 20-25 ft pounds the correct torque specs for the 14x1.25 studs and 103 ft pounds for the lug nuts?

22-24 ft lbs for the studs.

90 ft lbs for the nuts. Check torque more frequently (approx 200 street miles).

103 is too much. You're getting really close to yield which on one brand I found out the hard way was 110.

DB323 · 04-03-2018, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterP

22-24 ft lbs for the studs.

90 ft lbs for the nuts. Check torque more frequently (approx 200 street miles).

103 is too much. You're getting really close to yield which on one brand I found out the hard way was 110.

Thanks for the reply. The MSI studs used on my Porsche didn't have any issues with surface rust in the last 2 years. That's why I was wondering why these BMW specific MSI would rust. Maybe MSI used a different coating?

You are right in that we shouldn't care about slight surface rust considering these are meant for track use. My car will be used as a daily and weekend DE car so I do mind slightly that the studs will rust. Guess we have to just deal with it if we cant find a solution.

JMon · 04-03-2018, 05:10 PM

FYI. After having these on a while, I suspect it is "winter" related. Either from road salt or running the car though the car wash. See last summer they didn't look as bad as they did last winter. Now this winter they look bad again. Why they "improved" during last summer I don't know. Weird.

JMon · 04-03-2018, 05:11 PM

Ohh and I wish someone would just make a proper 2 piece bolt like Porsche has.

05-12-2017, 02:18 PM	#1
JMon FAST 371 Rep 574 Posts Drives: Porsche GT3 Cup Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Charlottesville VA iTrader: (0)	Problems with wheel studs rusting On my pcars that were daily drivers that sometimes got taken out to the track for fun, I never used wheel studs. I just stuck with high quality 2 piece wheel/lug bolts. (My race cars had proper center locks) https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...-lug-bolty.jpg But not finding anything like that for the F80 I went the wheel stud route. Got the best. MSI Studs and Zinc coated nuts. On my winter wheels, they don't stick out too far. On my stock rims, wow! but hey, only cosmetic. Anyway, my issue is the maintenance of them. They are kind of maybe rusting.... not on the thread but the bull nose. Anyone else have this happen? Are studs over rated? Was this probably one MOD too far for a street car that gets sometimes tracked? Attached Images
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05-12-2017, 02:21 PM	#2
tom @ eas BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 8158 Rep 18,821 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Anaheim, CA iTrader: (19) Garage List 2018 BMW i3s [0.00] 2010 BMW M3 [6.50] 2015 BMW M4 [5.25]	Are you using abrasive wheel cleaners? This will eat away at the zinc coating just like you have pictured. __________________ Tom G. \| european auto source (eas) email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22 GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
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05-12-2017, 02:39 PM	#3
JMon FAST 371 Rep 574 Posts Drives: Porsche GT3 Cup Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Charlottesville VA iTrader: (0)	Nope, just normal car soap. The Studs are supposed to be "manganese phosphate finish" rather than zinc The nuts are zinc (and not rusting) Last edited by JMon; 05-12-2017 at 02:45 PM..
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05-12-2017, 03:21 PM	#5
SD ///M4 ///Multiple 2992 Rep 4,243 Posts Drives: M4 Coupe \| M3 \| Z4M Roadster Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: San Diego, CA iTrader: (1) Garage List 2006 BMW Z4 M Roadster [8.81] 2016 BMW M4 Coupe ( ... [10.00] 2018 BMW M3 (Euro D ... [0.00] 2011 BMW 335is Coup ... [10.00]	My wife and I have stud conversion kits on all three of our BMWs and haven't had this problem. The sets for the 335is and the Z4 M Roadster were ordered about 5 years ago from Motorsport Hardware, owned by a friend of a friend. When I ordered the Apex EC-7 wheels as my track wheels about 9 months ago, I got their stud conversion kit because it was convenient and they shipped with the wheels. I'm not sure that your experience would indicate that the MSI studs are "the best". It probably rains a lot less here than VA though. I'd contact MSI. I'm pretty sure that almost anyone that sells stud conversion kits sources them from the same overseas sources. __________________ The Coupe: 2016 M4 \| Sakhir Orange \| Black Full Merino Leather \| CF Trim \| M-DCT \| More \| ED 5/13/16 The Sedan: 2018 M3 \| San Marino Blue \| Black Full Merino Leather \| CF Trim \| M-DCT \| ZCP \| ED 7/18/18 The Roadster: 2006 Z4 \| Interlagos Blue \| Black Extended Nappa Leather \| Carbon Leather Trim \| Purchased 7/19/12
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05-13-2017, 05:31 AM	#6
-JLT- Brigadier General 3446 Rep 4,186 Posts Drives: '22 X4M COMP, '23 iX xDrive50 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: CHITOWN iTrader: (1)	I've had my Macht Schnell studs for years now and no rusting issues. I'm in Chicago with snow/salt on the streets with no problems. __________________ -JLT-
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05-15-2017, 05:49 PM	#7
Fugazii Captain 235 Rep 755 Posts Drives: G82/2022 Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: WPB iTrader: (0)	I wouldn't go with Zinc coated try and find anodized for the future. That word coated scares me.
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12-10-2017, 08:58 AM	#14
jacobe92 Major 619 Rep 1,239 Posts Drives: 2016 Hell Rot F80 M3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: California iTrader: (6)	MSI MSI Attached Images __________________ 2016 Hellrot F80 M3\|JRZ RS Pro with Swift Springs 550/750 spring rates l AP Radical 5000R 9668/9449 lSpiegler SS LinesI DS1.11I Eisenmann DP\|MPE Catback\|18" Forgeline GS1R 18x10 et 22 and 18x11 et 44 NT01 275/35/18 and 305/35/18\| Forgeline GTD1 18x10et43 SquarelM Performance Lip/Splitter\|IND aesthetic mods\|Dinan Toe Link\|Fall Line mono ball conversion kit and upper link kit\| Aim Solo 2DL Smarty Cam\|Simpson Hybrid\|Stilo Offshore helmet.
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03-25-2018, 10:31 AM	#15
MaX PL Major 533 Rep 1,415 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	i'm having the same problem with my MSI studs. they got very rusty during the winter. i used some 000 steel wool to take a bulk of the rust off but would like to figure out a way to coat them to prevent this in the future. some say to use anti seize while others say not to. they were fine through most of last year as i did more frequent washes of the car, but it sat for longer periods during the winter and the rust developed. i'm going to try contacting MSI for an opinion as non of my google searches have helped.
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03-25-2018, 11:10 PM	#16
Woodengun Lieutenant 310 Rep 408 Posts Drives: Yugo Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Norcal iTrader: (0)	I have MSI studs and they have surface rust. I'm not worried at all. I got them because I track and do frequent wheel changes. Heat cycling during track days is what really stresses wheel bolts or studs. I think the surface rust might be caused because I use a citrus (acidic pH I would think) based soap for washing. Car is washed weekly...sometimes a bit less frequent. Acid and salt will both make steel rust more quickly.
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03-28-2018, 06:08 PM	#17
DB323 Private 13 Rep 82 Posts Drives: F80 ZCP Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: New York City iTrader: (2)	Damn this sucks. I just purchased MSI studs as well for frequent wheel swaps. Anybody speak to MSI regarding this issue? Also, is 20-25 ft pounds the correct torque specs for the 14x1.25 studs and 103 ft pounds for the lug nuts?
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04-02-2018, 10:18 PM	#18
MasterP Colonel 721 Rep 2,342 Posts Drives: All the M's Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Where do you want me? iTrader: (8)	MSI studs are Motorsport parts. I wouldn't expect them to cave to cosmetic oxidation complaints. You buy MSI studs if you're concerned about fatigue from track use. Shifteck, apex, MS, vorshlag, MSI, MRG, I've used them all. They all start to form a little bit of surface rust. I change them out every year or sooner when they break anyway. If you're not really tracking and corrosion is an issue get titanium.
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04-03-2018, 05:10 PM	#21
JMon FAST 371 Rep 574 Posts Drives: Porsche GT3 Cup Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Charlottesville VA iTrader: (0)	FYI. After having these on a while, I suspect it is "winter" related. Either from road salt or running the car though the car wash. See last summer they didn't look as bad as they did last winter. Now this winter they look bad again. Why they "improved" during last summer I don't know. Weird.
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04-03-2018, 05:11 PM	#22
JMon FAST 371 Rep 574 Posts Drives: Porsche GT3 Cup Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Charlottesville VA iTrader: (0)	Ohh and I wish someone would just make a proper 2 piece bolt like Porsche has.
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