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      08-18-2018, 08:28 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by UGADawgFan View Post
..
This leads into.... I have a 2016 M3 DCT, adaptive suspension...flash tuned, lowered on MS springs and a ZCP muffler. Performance wise those are my only mods. I've had every generation M3 in succession E36, into E46, into E92, into F80 (aside from the E30, which I owned years ago for a short amount of time). I've owned it since November of 2017.

I have literally loved every previous M3 I've owned and miss them all. All of them made me feel special- and each felt special- driving them. Even at low speeds and cruising around you KNEW you were driving something better than 90% of the cars on the road (especially the E46!). They all had a special steering feel and engine sound...and the suspension tuning was fantastic..great when you're windy roads, but supple and compliant enough that it didn't beat you up daily driving.


The F80? I love the way it looks. Seriously, it's the best looking M3 IMHO so far. It looks purposeful, aggressive- if a little big. However, what I hate most about it are three things:

1) The electric power steering is brutally bad. I have the "GTS" steering flash, and it's better with that...but at low speeds it's too lightweight and has no real road feel. It loads up okay at speed, but driving around day-to-day it feels limp.

2) I know I'm lowered a little, but even stock....the ride quality is way more brittle than I remember in any previous M3. Seriously, on choppy roads, the car beats you up and feels like it's going to shake apart. The suspension damping is just bad.

3) I could forgive the first two...but the BIGGEST reason I hate the car, is that winding it out to redline is NO fun because it sounds like complete GARBAGE. Those who "like" the F8X sound can justify it all they want, but this is the worst sounding M car, and probably one of the worst sounding performance cars ever made. Seriously it sounds like a cat being strangled by a lawnmower. It's so bad sounding that it's embarrassing to wind it out for people. Part of the fun of owning a performance car is the sound of the engine right? I thought I would grow to live with it, but it gets more an more annoying with time.

I've come to realize that I should have just kept my E92 M3 for a few more years, but rather than go back, I'm going to finish building my house and then either get a 6 cylinder Cayman GTS (2014-2016) or if I can find the right deal, a 991.1 Carrera 4S..and just keep it forever. Those cars may be slower (especially the Cayman) but make you feel like a hero while driving them.

tl;dr - F8X has mediocre steering feel, sounds like crap, and the ride is too stiff.
Interesting - I would love to see/hear your thoughts on a 2018 M3 with ZCP. Personally I...

Think the car sounds awesome - but only when winding it out. Low RPM/startup is brutal - but the soundtrack (and yes, I have the Active Sound on), is really nice to me when the RPMs are up there. Not saying it compares to your former E92 - but then again, this is a 6 cylinder.

and the E92...I was very surprised when I test drove one how over boosted the steering felt compared to a 335 (which required some serious effort). So to me, the steering in the F80 feels better (from what I remember 7 years ago) - and even though I think it uses the same rack as the M2, I find the F80 M3 steering with ZCP to be far superior (I always had this large dead spot in the M2).

And the ride - well, I do drive around in comfort all the time - most people who went from a 2016 to a 2018 ZCP seem to say the ride is so much improved (even with the 666 wheels) - thus I'm curious what you think. And I got rid of the M2 because of the ride - give that car an adjustable suspension and it would be perfect.

One question however... your post seems to indicate you went from a F90/G30 to a F80 and regret it - but/and, I'm not sure that is the case?
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      08-18-2018, 07:57 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
Interesting - I would love to see/hear your thoughts on a 2018 M3 with ZCP. Personally I...

Think the car sounds awesome - but only when winding it out. Low RPM/startup is brutal - but the soundtrack (and yes, I have the Active Sound on), is really nice to me when the RPMs are up there. Not saying it compares to your former E92 - but then again, this is a 6 cylinder.

and the E92...I was very surprised when I test drove one how over boosted the steering felt compared to a 335 (which required some serious effort). So to me, the steering in the F80 feels better (from what I remember 7 years ago) - and even though I think it uses the same rack as the M2, I find the F80 M3 steering with ZCP to be far superior (I always had this large dead spot in the M2).

And the ride - well, I do drive around in comfort all the time - most people who went from a 2016 to a 2018 ZCP seem to say the ride is so much improved (even with the 666 wheels) - thus I'm curious what you think. And I got rid of the M2 because of the ride - give that car an adjustable suspension and it would be perfect.

One question however... your post seems to indicate you went from a F90/G30 to a F80 and regret it - but/and, I'm not sure that is the case?
I have a zcp e90 and zcp '17 f80. I've driven '15 m3's and frankly, I thought they were a bit scary to drive. The steering feel was numb and the suspension didn't soak up the bumps that well. They couldn't put their power down well on corner exit, and I felt like the back end could come out whenever. My '17 f80 really didn't have those issues. I agree the steering feel isn't quite the same as my e90, but the turn in front end grip is loads better. I feel the suspension is much more compliant in my f80 than the e90 and I prefer the ride quality to the e90 in comfort mode. There truly is a quantifiable difference between the early and later f8x cars. The sound was never the f80's strong suit, but it never bothered me either. I thought the comp pack exhaust was adequate, though I accept that there are far better sounding cars out there. For a dual purpose car, I'm not sure there are that many better cars out there. It is definitely a short list, well covered on this forum. As far as the f90 is concerned, the exhaust note inside the car is muted at best. Outside it isn't bad, but the car is so well insulated that hearing anything inside is challenging. From the reviews of the comp pack exhaust, owners are saying it is definitely better inside and outside the car. Hopefully I like it when I take delivery. I'll post a review of the f90 after I get it.
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      08-18-2018, 08:52 PM   #47
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I went E46 - E90 - F82 GTS. I don't regret selling the E90, but I did wish I never sold the E46...to the point that I bought another E46 M3 last week. Not sure yet if I'm keeping the GTS but I have a feeling that the only thing that would make me regret selling it (if I did sell it) would be if it started to gain value as a limited edition...which honestly doesn't look likely
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      08-19-2018, 01:26 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
Think the car sounds awesome - but only when winding it out. Low RPM/startup is brutal - but the soundtrack (and yes, I have the Active Sound on), is really nice to me when the RPMs are up there. Not saying it compares to your former E92 - but then again, this is a 6 cylinder.

and the E92...I was very surprised when I test drove one how over boosted the steering felt compared to a 335 (which required some serious effort). So to me, the steering in the F80 feels better (from what I remember 7 years ago) - and even though I think it uses the same rack as the M2, I find the F80 M3 steering with ZCP to be far superior (I always had this large dead spot in the M2).

And the ride - well, I do drive around in comfort all the time - most people who went from a 2016 to a 2018 ZCP seem to say the ride is so much improved (even with the 666 wheels) - thus I'm curious what you think. And I got rid of the M2 because of the ride - give that car an adjustable suspension and it would be perfect.

One question however... your post seems to indicate you went from a F90/G30 to a F80 and regret it - but/and, I'm not sure that is the case?
No- I went from an e92 M3 to my current F80. I've never owned a 5 series- and apologies for derailing this thread.

I have active sound turned off- I hated how unnatural it sounded...but I completely disagree with you on the F8X sound. A Supra, GTR, Porsche 911, E46 M3, E36 M3, heck a 335i all were able to be high performing six cylinders and still sound very nice to amazing.

I owned an E90 328i M Sport at the same time as my E92 M3. You're absolutely correct, my E90s steering was way heavier than the e92....to the point where my wife refused to drive my E90 for any purpose because she hated the heavy steering. The E92 M3 steering was the perfect balance for me- it had enough heft and feel to be confident in corners, but yet supple enough to drive casually. The F80 steering is either too light or too heavy.

I admit I haven't driven a ZCP, but the S55 engine sound alone dissuades me from even thinking about a trade up to a ZCP car. It's just not a good sounding motor. You hear something like a Corvette, a Porsche 911, an S2000 (stock), or any other generation M3 roar by and you can stop and admire the sound - irrespective that it's fast or slow. As I said, if the car sounded great, I'd forgive the brittle ride and the steering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
I went E46 - E90 - F82 GTS. I don't regret selling the E90, but I did wish I never sold the E46...to the point that I bought another E46 M3 last week. Not sure yet if I'm keeping the GTS but I have a feeling that the only thing that would make me regret selling it (if I did sell it) would be if it started to gain value as a limited edition...which honestly doesn't look likely
Agree with you, E46 is my favorite M3 of them all. I'd get another one, but I don't want to deal with how maintenance intensive they are.

Not sure how the value will hold up in the long term, but I'd venture to guess a Cayman GT4 will hold it's value better over time than the GTS. Right now both cars are sub $100K but it appears that the GTS is trending downwards and the GT4's are holding steady.


Again total apologies to the OP for derailing the thread.

Last edited by UGADawgFan; 08-19-2018 at 01:39 AM..
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      08-20-2018, 06:25 AM   #49
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I like the pics of the 8 series I've seen. I also like the idea of a brand new power plant for the m8. If I didn't have a need for four doors, I'd seriously give it a look. I wonder if they are going to make a gran coupe version...
So, I drove the M5 at the M Track Day yesterday. Albeit in a drag race. The car has some serious power! Inside, the car is futuristic (for BMW). Now I want one . I'm not so sure you can do a gran coupe with the 8 the way it looks. Who knows though, I'm not an engineer.

The need for 4 doors is a real thing...just happy it's not my problem.
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      12-14-2018, 11:37 AM   #50
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So I thought I'd update my thread after I have had my m5 a few months. I am happy to report I have zero regrets now. I actually think this is the best car I have ever driven. It is no ferrari or porsche gt2rs, but for a super sedan, there is nothing better. And I don't think it gives anything up to my previous f80. It is bigger, and not quite as tossable, but the traction is so immense with awd. The power is unlike anything I have experienced before, outside of a 911 turbo. The amg e63s has the same power, but the car just isn't as refined and the ride quality is so harsh in comparison. I also have to say that the character of the m5c vs the m5 is also different. It is slightly firmer, which I prefer, and the exhaust note is so much better. The engine sounds great in my opinion, especially compared to the f80. There is a low down growl that the f80 did not have, and you can actually hear the exhaust in the m5c compared to the m5. Overall, no regrets! I was worried for nothing. This is my favorite car I have owned so far, but that probably also has something to do with the fact that I'm in my 40's now and my tastes and needs have changed somewhat. Either way, I don't think anyone else looking to take the plunge on an f90 will be disappointed coming from an f8x. Here are a few pics of my car!!
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      12-19-2018, 02:54 AM   #51
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That garage picture got me a bit excited

Congrats! Love the F90, especially in white

Also interesting read for all the F80 vs Camaro posts. Having driven both in the canyons I gotta say I agree with most of the points made
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      12-19-2018, 10:18 AM   #52
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no ragrets
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      12-19-2018, 10:37 AM   #53
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Everyone knew you were just lowkey flexing..
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      12-19-2018, 11:35 AM   #54
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no ragrets
Not even a single letter? Bahaha
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      12-23-2018, 03:30 PM   #55
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Honestly, I wouldn't do it. I made the move from F82 to F90. Is F90 a much better luxury car? yes. But you lose a lot of the sporty feeling. It really depends on what you're looking for. I also bought a lotus Evora 400 so I had a sports car to go back and forth from. If it was my only car then I would just stick with an M3/M4.

Edit. Just saw that you already bought it. Congrats!
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      12-24-2018, 10:36 AM   #56
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Refreshing to see someone that appreciates the f80 vs older gens and not spewing the "bMwS aREnt tHe sAmE aNymOrE they arE nOt eNgaGiNg".

But if you are tracking the e90 I wouldn't miss the f80 as much with the f90. The f90 is a missle beast in its own right and if you say you're not tracking the f80 or f90, the f90 is definitely the better daily.

I always hoped for an m3 and m5 simultaneously in driveway regardless of the generation.
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      12-25-2018, 01:35 AM   #57
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I moved from an f82 to f90 as well, I have no regrets. I've had the m5 for about 5 months.

For a daily it's tough to beat. It's faster than the f8x in nearly every way... the chassis doesn't get upset as easily so it's a more enjoyable street car... and although the m4 has an awesome turn-in the corner exit of the f90 is more fun... to me at least.

F90 felt huge the first couple weeks of ownership, but it hides its weight and size well when you push it on the back roads.

Sounds better, awesome updated interior, and I dropped the back seats and slid a boxed 60inch tv in the trunk... then crushed a Camaro from a stop light while my wife was getting a back massage from the massage seats.

Plus, for $800 you can get it to 700+ HP and break all four wheels loose on a lunch, and run mid 10s.

But the f90 is expensive, it's a different level. And At 37 I appreciate the added comfort and features, but it wouldn't be worth the price over an M4 just for the gained performance. You have to care about the other stuff.

With all that said I loved my m4, it was really fun and can't wait to see what the next gen is all about. Also I think the f8x looks better too.. I love the front end of the m3/4. F90 is a bit too tame up front.

the m4 is a more raw experience, less comfortable, less insulated, DCT, wheel spin all the time, touchy throttle and etc.. to me that's not more sporty, but to some it is. We have great choices with cars these days and are lucky to own an M no matter which one. I bet if I jumped in an M4 I would remember things I missed.. but I don't regret the move. Anyway, all fun cars.
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      12-25-2018, 11:53 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
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No regret here. The only thing I regret is paying what I did on the M3 for subpar M performance.

Much happier now...
If only it didn't feel like a casket interior.
After driving it for just a week, that feeling fades. Also the visibility issue is a non-issue if you position your side view mirrors properly, most people have their mirrors too far inward. I also got the 2SS, so it has blind spot monitoring.

The seats and seating positions are so much more comfortable than the M seats and positioning.

The things that most knock about the Gen. 6 Camaro, are just from improperly setting things up.

As far as vehicle dynamics, shock damping, chassis control, stability control systems , traction control systems, and handling limits , the SS 1LE destroys my previous M3 by a big margin.

Hustle a 1LE around some back roads or mountain roads and THAT is what the M3/4 SHOULD have been.
What kind of F8X did you have? I have a 17 F80 ZCP and my wife has an 18 F80. We find them to be much more competent than my 6th gen ever was and I actually feel the opposite as you. (Also we love a four door so there is some bias here to that as well)

What makes me ask this is that there are some posters here such as minn19 who had an older F8X, jumped to an American car, and is now back and has a different view of the newer ZCPs compared to his normal party line (from the little I have gathered from his posts, don't know his reasons just yet, only that the ZCP is an improvement over his older non-ZCP).

If you had a newer ZCP and jumped I can admit that we just may have had different experiences and I wish you all the best. But, at the same time, if you didn't, your comparison is not necessarily invalid and makes a lot of sense when compared to the older F8Xs. Wonder if s newer ZCP would have done it for you.
While I'm sure the BMW has improved upon the suspension tuning some since my 2016 M3 (I moved over to Ohlin coilovers BTW), I do not think it is in the same league as the SS 1LE Magnaride dampers.

You need to keep in mind that the SS 1LE is matching or right there in lap times with the $140k M4 GTS.

The M3 makes a better daily driver , but if you are going on Performance as your main matrix , and while not optimal, need 4 seats thus eliminating 2 seat sports car options , the SS 1LE just puts it all together as a complete package better.

The 6 piston brembo brakes kill the ones that come on the M3 as well.

I loved my M3 until you got it above 7/10ths. And if you are going to drive at or below 7/10th, then just get a standard 3 series , but M cars are supposed to be drivers cars , and they just aren't when driven at 8,9,10/10ths.

At this point though, we can probably just agree to disagree. At heart I'm a Performance car guy first , brand loyal to none.

I drive a car not to get from point A to point B, I drive a car for the experience, the feel, the emotions it invokes.
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No regret here. The only thing I regret is paying what I did on the M3 for subpar M performance.

Much happier now...
If only it didn't feel like a casket interior.
After driving it for just a week, that feeling fades. Also the visibility issue is a non-issue if you position your side view mirrors properly, most people have their mirrors too far inward. I also got the 2SS, so it has blind spot monitoring.

The seats and seating positions are so much more comfortable than the M seats and positioning.

The things that most knock about the Gen. 6 Camaro, are just from improperly setting things up.

As far as vehicle dynamics, shock damping, chassis control, stability control systems , traction control systems, and handling limits , the SS 1LE destroys my previous M3 by a big margin.

Hustle a 1LE around some back roads or mountain roads and THAT is what the M3/4 SHOULD have been.
What kind of F8X did you have? I have a 17 F80 ZCP and my wife has an 18 F80. We find them to be much more competent than my 6th gen ever was and I actually feel the opposite as you. (Also we love a four door so there is some bias here to that as well)

What makes me ask this is that there are some posters here such as minn19 who had an older F8X, jumped to an American car, and is now back and has a different view of the newer ZCPs compared to his normal party line (from the little I have gathered from his posts, don't know his reasons just yet, only that the ZCP is an improvement over his older non-ZCP).

If you had a newer ZCP and jumped I can admit that we just may have had different experiences and I wish you all the best. But, at the same time, if you didn't, your comparison is not necessarily invalid and makes a lot of sense when compared to the older F8Xs. Wonder if s newer ZCP would have done it for you.
While I'm sure the BMW has improved upon the suspension tuning some since my 2016 M3 (I moved over to Ohlin coilovers BTW), I do not think it is in the same league as the SS 1LE Magnaride dampers.

You need to keep in mind that the SS 1LE is matching or right there in lap times with the $140k M4 GTS.

The M3 makes a better daily driver , but if you are going on Performance as your main matrix , and while not optimal, need 4 seats thus eliminating 2 seat sports car options , the SS 1LE just puts it all together as a complete package better.

The 6 piston brembo brakes kill the ones that come on the M3 as well.

I loved my M3 until you got it above 7/10ths. And if you are going to drive at or below 7/10th, then just get a standard 3 series , but M cars are supposed to be drivers cars , and they just aren't when driven at 8,9,10/10ths.

At this point though, we can probably just agree to disagree. At heart I'm a Performance car guy first , brand loyal to none.

I drive a car not to get from point A to point B, I drive a car for the experience, the feel, the emotions it invokes.
I test drove the SS Camaro; it's a stunner and out performs the M3 in most performance reviews.

I don't think the M3 of today is what it was at it's inception years past. For thrill driving most are going M4 or M2.

The M3 is the gentleman's sports sedan; Alpha and C63 also same class.

Camaro tilts the scale way on the performance side.

Most who buy Camaros know what they are getting compared to M3, C63 and Alpha

Op congrats
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      01-17-2019, 01:37 PM   #59
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You kids will love your F90 more, trust me.
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      02-02-2019, 09:12 PM   #60
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There was just a post on F80/F82 FB page, about guy switching back to F80, because he didn't like the F90, maybe you should talk to him
That might be me or someone else but after a month of driving the f90 Range Rover I was back in my beloved f80 comp...... the f90 was Fast but lacks any soul, I was to heavy, the zf tranny is to soft, the throttle response didn’t change from eco to sports plus..... if they would have kept the dct or a 6sp I would have kept the car!
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