Anyone planning on picking up a G8X and tracking it?

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Weight is not really an issue in F1 since the constructors have the technical means to make cars well below the regulated minimum weight. From the 2021 F1 rule book:

I see.

Weight wise, I don't think it will be that simple. Virtually everything is carbon fiber in F1 cars except for the engine and the drivetrain, maybe they can shave off about 10kg without minimum weight regulation but any significant weight saving would require ground up chassis design, without assurance of added pace. Doubt any racing team is going to ditch RWD design they have perfected over decades to try and see AWD chassis would work better.
These cars have so much downforce, any advantage offered by AWD would likely be offset by clever aerodynamics with much less weight. We are talking about Ferrari guys complaining they lack top speed at 310kph vs. Mercedes W11, doubt the AWD helps much in this department either.
I suppose it could work if AWD can corner 10kph higher than the rest of the group and negate parasitic loss in straights without reliability issues.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I see.

Weight wise, I don't think it will be that simple. Virtually everything is carbon fiber in F1 cars except for the engine and the drivetrain, maybe they can shave off about 10kg without minimum weight regulation but any significant weight saving would require ground up chassis design, without assurance of added pace. Doubt any racing team is going to ditch RWD design they have perfected over decades to try and see AWD chassis would work better.
These cars have so much downforce, any advantage offered by AWD would likely be offset by clever aerodynamics with much less weight. We are talking about Ferrari guys complaining they lack top speed at 310kph vs. Mercedes W11, doubt the AWD helps much in this department either.
I suppose it could work if AWD can corner 10kph higher than the rest of the group and negate parasitic loss in straights without reliability issues.

Not really. Yes they make every component a light as possible so they can put the weight where they want it. They actually add ballast to meet the minimum spec weight. The FIA keeps increasing the minimum weight to slow the cars down and to help reduce cost. As a reference, back on 2013 the min weight was 642kg, over 100kg less than the 749kg 2021 min weight.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Not really. Yes they make every component a light as possible so they can put the weight where they want it. They actually add ballast to meet the minimum spec weight. The FIA keeps increasing the minimum weight to slow the cars down and to help reduce cost. As a reference, back on 2014 the min weight was 642kg, over 100kg less than the 749kg 2021 min weight.

You and I have different numbers here.

2013 is 642kg with 2.4L V8 engine, which is much lighter without MGU-H and MGU-K.
2014 is the year with V6 1.8, and the minimum weight was 691kg. From that point on, FIA regulated weight each year due to technical advancements (yes, 2020 car is faster than 2014) such as hybrid gear, tire and chassis width, addition of halo, etc.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

My experience --

Fully stock F8X to stock track spec GTS is ~6 seconds around a 2 mile technical circuit. So, that would be crazy if G8X achieves.

E9X to F8X was more like 3-4 seconds and that was night and day difference.

3 seconds per track mile between a base M4 and the GTS seems a bit much IMO. Looking at lap times from various EU publications, the difference ranges between 1.2 and 2.0 second per track mile. Shod with the same tires, the gap can only lessen.

My own personal experience (all 3 cars shod with NT01 tires):

• E92->F82 = ~0.75 sec/mile
• F82->F82cs = ~0.95 sec/mile

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

You and I have different numbers here.

2013 is 642kg with 2.4L V8 engine, which is much lighter without MGU-H and MGU-K.
2014 is the year with V6 1.8, and the minimum weight was 691kg. From that point on, FIA regulated weight each year due to technical advancements (yes, 2020 car is faster than 2014) such as hybrid gear, tire and chassis width, addition of halo, etc.

Sorry, yes my number was 2013. But regardless, the constructors have the technological means to build cars much lighter than the min spec weight. So they could easily add AWD and still fit within. It boils back to the point that the reason there is no AWD in F1 is because of regulation, not weight.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Sorry, yes my number was 2013. But regardless, the constructors have the technological means to build cars much lighter than the min spec weight. So they could easily add AWD and still fit within. It boils back to the point that the reason there is no AWD in F1 is because of regulation, not weight.

I agree that addition of AWD can be achieved at a certain weight level given unlimited budget, and it is ultimately the regulation that eliminates that possibility.
However, none of the constructors in F1 during the Mercedes dominance brought this forth; regulations as you may know constantly change towards benefiting teams that are the least competitive. If any of the teams thought that AWD would bring significant performance gain at a given minimum weight and close the gap with the top teams, they would have brought forth the discussion. They haven't.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

3 seconds per track mile between a base M4 and the GTS seems a bit much IMO. Looking at lap times from various EU publications, the difference ranges between 1.2 and 2.0 second per track mile. Shod with the same tires, the gap can only lessen.

My own personal experience (all 3 cars shod with NT01 tires):

• E92->F82 = ~0.75 sec/mile
• F82->F82cs = ~0.95 sec/mile

Fair enough. Home track is exactly 2.21 miles.

Suggested gaps are stock rubber for all, so PS2 for E9X, PSS for F8X, Cup 2 for GTS.

Comparing stock E9X to F8X, PS2 to PSS alone >1.5 seconds.

2 seconds per track mile would be 4.4 seconds back base F8X with PSS to stock track spec GTS. There was definitely more there stock GTS, but Cup 2 gave way. Proper lap for a full stock F8X to be just 4.4 back of (even) my mark, but possible I suppose. That would put a stock F8X only about 1.5 seconds back of a Z/28 here, for example.

Different tracks will yield different results, of course. And equal track tires for all changes the equation substantially.

[RSXDC5]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

I was talking about the track potential. Stock for stock on the track the G8x will still be faster. The S58 will be underrated and probably make about 580hp at the crank. I've driven the X3M, it's easy to tell the motor is much stronger than the S55. G8x will put power down better, corner better and have better MDM/traction control.

And I'm sure add a couple mods (suspension, pads, wheels/tires) I can't see how the f8x with the same mods will stand a chance (even with the added weight of the G8x)

Look at all these pig heavy cars: ZL1 1LE, GT350R, Vettes, even Viper ACR.. all 3600lb-4000lb porkers and they will eat the F8x for lunch on the track.

Cool?

I still wouldn't touch a G8X. Looks like shit.

[c0nrad]

6 piston front brakes + front brake ducts are a pretty big improvement despite all of the other weird decisions with this car

[USSEnterprise]

The G80 reviews are hitting all the youtube channels right about now. I am horrified by the ugly wheels of BMW M cars. Every single one of them including the F80 generation wheels are ugly as hell. Straight up butt ugly - the colors, pattern, everything.

Why BMW, why?????? Why can't you design decent looking wheels.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

The G80 reviews are hitting all the youtube channels right about now. I am horrified by the ugly wheels of BMW M cars. Every single one of them including the F80 generation wheels are ugly as hell. Straight up butt ugly - the colors, pattern, everything.

Why BMW, why?????? Why can't you design decent looking wheels.

M4CS wheels are fire - I say that without bias.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

The G80 reviews are hitting all the youtube channels right about now. I am horrified by the ugly wheels of BMW M cars. Every single one of them including the F80 generation wheels are ugly as hell. Straight up butt ugly - the colors, pattern, everything.

Why BMW, why?????? Why can't you design decent looking wheels.

GT4, 763M, and 437M may be some of the best wheels BMW has ever produced. Like you, I am not a fan of the G8X wheel options - they've taken the 666M wheel design and run with it

[MaX PL]

I don't think these are bad, but the G80 666 style wheels are as lame as the 666.

[Bon F80]

Have watched quite a number of reviews of the new M3 and M4, including the one from Chris Harris of course. Most journalists seem to praise the increase traction (and predictability) on the rear axle and the handling as a whole. That is even with the heavier weight of the new car.

How do you guys think the G8x will perform on track / lapping days? Will the heavier weight finally hinder the longevity?

Of course, these can be speculations only. We can only find out later when a fast driver gets to lap 2 comparatively equipped F8x and G8x at the same track under the same conditions.

[drroc]

Originally Posted by Bon F80

Of course, these can be speculations only. We can only find out later when a fast driver gets to lap 2 comparatively equipped F8x and G8x at the same track under the same conditions.

As far as track capability, just a hot lap doesn't count. Somebody needs to flog it for 5 20~30mins sessions. That will begin to show the true colors of the car as a track toy.

[robbo mcs]

Originally Posted by Bon F80

Have watched quite a number of reviews of the new M3 and M4, including the one from Chris Harris of course. Most journalists seem to praise the increase traction (and predictability) on the rear axle and the handling as a whole. That is even with the heavier weight of the new car.

How do you guys think the G8x will perform on track / lapping days? Will the heavier weight finally hinder the longevity?

Of course, these can be speculations only. We can only find out later when a fast driver gets to lap 2 comparatively equipped F8x and G8x at the same track under the same conditions.

They did high end selected customer days on the track with G80/82 here in Australia around 3 weeks ago, along with motor journalist days. I didn’t go, but have spoken to some people who did. They were saying like for like, probably 2-3 seconds quicker around a 1.50 track. Hard to know what to make of that though, street tyres, had to run with safety stuff on, people only got a handful of laps, no official timing etc.

However, a couple of people I know who are very experienced track drivers were adamant that it is substantially quicker, both straightline speed and cornering

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Bon F80

Have watched quite a number of reviews of the new M3 and M4, including the one from Chris Harris of course. Most journalists seem to praise the increase traction (and predictability) on the rear axle and the handling as a whole. That is even with the heavier weight of the new car.

How do you guys think the G8x will perform on track / lapping days? Will the heavier weight finally hinder the longevity?

Of course, these can be speculations only. We can only find out later when a fast driver gets to lap 2 comparatively equipped F8x and G8x at the same track under the same conditions.

If the figures in the reviews are accurate, G8X Comp comes in around 3,800.

Apparent major gains in rear traction could encourage a return to standard square track setup, a la E9X 275 square.

305/30-19 square on the G8X, if they can be squeezed in.

That would offset some of the costs of tracking a staggered setup with a heavier car.

Add bbk, camber plates. Same stuff you have to do to an F8X and every other gen.

11.6 quarter mile, looks sub-8 seconds 100-200 kph. (Possibly faster than a GTS on the roll.) F8X was over 9 seconds? So G8X puts 1+ second on the F8X on most straights.

After F8X, have zero concerns over engine cooling.

Lifespan of consumables will be cut according to increased weight and pace, but it's not like F8X is a Miata.

Kept hearing about the improved front axle pre-release, guess I was not expecting much improved rear traction. That changes things in terms of track potential imo. If properly equipped with the usual mods, looks like a track monster to me.

[FormulaMMM]

Also........

The increased track widths and improved overall platform stability should work to offset the tire wear one would typically associate with added weight, especially at novice or intermediate pace. Driving feedback suggests G8X is not just an F8X + 200 lbs.

It's 10/10ths pace that's going to create a tire wear/consumables problem, but the same can be said of almost everything.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

It's 10/10ths pace that's going to create a tire wear/consumables problem, but the same can be said of almost everything.

This is something I also wanted to weigh in on. The additional weight of the G8X will not be an issue to the vast majority of the tiny subset of people who are tracking the car.
It will be an issue for the tiny amount of people within the tiny subset of trackers who really push the envelope. This is like 3 people on any given platform. For those people the additional weight is an issue for consumables.

Having seen the car in person, I think it will fit something ridiculous in terms of wheels, like 11.5 square. So that will take care of the tire consumable problem, but not of the brakes.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

This is something I also wanted to weigh in on. The additional weight of the G8X will not be an issue to the vast majority of the tiny subset of people who are tracking the car.
It will be an issue for the tiny amount of people within the tiny subset of trackers who really push the envelope. This is like 3 people on any given platform. For those people the additional weight is an issue for consumables.

Having seen the car in person, I think it will fit something ridiculous in terms of wheels, like 11.5 square. So that will take care of the tire consumable problem, but not of the brakes.

305 territory. Could even consider 305 square with a wheel width stagger, 11" up front 11.5" rear to aid limit traction.

Pretty shocked by the rear traction they were apparently able to build in. Not what I expected.

You going for it? Comp?

[USSEnterprise]

I love how the believers (cough SYT and Formula above cough) will fill-in the blanks and make up for a lack of facts with optimistic conclusive statements like "this wont be a problem, tire wear will be manageable, I can stuff a 425 tire in there, that will be great, etc." You have no idea till you get your hands on a car AND have at least a dozen track days on it, so chill a bit would you?

I also love how the haters (cough existing F80 owners who cannot afford to upgrade right away cough) will proclaim negative conclusions.

I'm right in the middle. I will wait till regular people like me to get their hands on the car in significant enough numbers and have enough seat time around a track to see how it behaves. That is the only reliable data.

Other than known universal laws of physics such as weight is bad when going around corners. You don't see too many M5s as track day cars. There is a blindingly obvious reason why.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

I love how the believers (cough SYT and Formula above cough) will fill-in the blanks and make up for a lack of facts with optimistic conclusive statements like "this wont be a problem, tire wear will be manageable, I can stuff a 425 tire in there, that will be great, etc." You have no idea till you get your hands on a car AND have at least a dozen track days on it, so chill a bit would you?

I'm chill!

Admit I'm rooting for the G8X and against the design team.

Where are you finding 425's?