EXXEL Distributions
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-24-2019, 04:08 AM   #23
Justin.AutoTalent
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Justin.AutoTalent's Avatar
2445
Rep
2,545
Posts


Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: LA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAY M3 View Post
Where can I get it? Will order right now as I thought it was hard to get as well.
We have been trading PM's already. I mentioned that Akrapovic is not hard to obtain at this time since there is stocking inventory in the US
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2019, 07:10 PM   #24
Kenny Singh
New Member
7
Rep
15
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW F80 M3
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Frequency Intelligent

I got my Fi system with stock DP and man it sounds so aggressive. None of that stock metallic bullshit anymore. Hit up Justin.AutoTalent for the hook he gave me a crazy good price!!!

I wouldn't even touch downpipes cause it sounds so good with just the catback.
Appreciate 1
      03-06-2019, 07:34 PM   #25
///M///
Brigadier General
///M///'s Avatar
1522
Rep
3,390
Posts

Drives: 2016 Manual AW F80
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Philly

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by THEROK View Post
MPE is a non-starter. Sht build quality and one of the worst looking setups.
MPE one of the wors looking setups? Says a guy with a Remus
__________________
=========================
2016 F80 M3 AW/SO (Manual) - Picked up at the Welt 08/28/15

My Amazing European Delivery Story
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2019, 07:42 PM   #26
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
3461
Rep
15,586
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (18)

Garage List
2017 BMW i3  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [5.00]
2015 BMW M4  [3.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ra2289 View Post
How easy it it to get the full Akra in the states? Thought it was supposed to be very difficult, part of the reason I went with Remus.
We're an authorized Akrapovic dealer. No problem at all.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com web: www.europeanautosource.com tel 866.669.0705 ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG FACEBOOK YOUTUBE FLICKR INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2019, 07:47 PM   #27
mike@x-ph.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
mike@x-ph.com's Avatar
United_States
9233
Rep
102,216
Posts


Drives: 2007 e92 335i / 2013 F30 328
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (19)

Akra in stock and ready to ship
__________________
Start/Stop Buttons $19.95 *** M3/M4 Tips $199
Phone 725-221-5267 || website www.x-ph.com
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2019, 09:01 PM   #28
cfm56d7b
Brigadier General
United_States
1056
Rep
3,407
Posts

Drives: 2017 440i Gran Coupe & 2015 X5
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Save a bit more and get full Akrapovic. Best sound, build quality and resale when the time comes.
Agreed. Akrapovic or Akrapovic ... the choice is surprisingly simple.
Appreciate 1
tom @ eas3461.00

      03-08-2019, 11:09 AM   #29
RevNev
Private
54
Rep
86
Posts

Drives: X3 M40i
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

I've fabricated exhaust systems and mufflers for road and race cars for 40 years and feeling a bit lazy I've looked at and listened to many bolt on systems but none sound great and the price of them is out of control.

The twin pipes need to be joined after the downpipe flange to get rid of the farty 6 cylinder spilt system sound to make it sound higher pitched and more blended. In other words, make it sound like it's doing 7000rpm when it's doing 5000rpm. Joining the twin pipes together for 5" like a large capacity X pipe will do it.

The cats need to come off with a remedy for the CEL light of course, but what we do in Australia given that cats only have to be seen on the car, I cut the downpipe cats open on the welds knock the guts out and weld a 3" perforated stainless tube in the centre with stainless wool packing and TIG them back together on the welds and they look totally unmodified stock.

The secondary cats I'd cut out completely and fit 2 straight through perforated tube glass packed resonators about 16" long. The resonator providing it's not restrictive internally, I'd cut the top off it and pack it with fibreglass or stainless wool and weld the top back on.

The rear muffler is likely an open chamber muffler with no packing and that's why it's raspy, mufflers "must" be packed to smoothen the note and remove the raspy sound. It's matter of cutting the top off the rear muffler and possibly replacing the tubes with full length perforated tube and packing the muffler cavity with glass and welding the top back on.

When the valves are open the rear muffler is bypassed and aside from the cats reducing the sound level, there's virtually no muffler to smoothen the note and straight pipe sounds terrible and loud doesn't mean it's a good note. The system has to have packed resonators before the valves to smoothen the note out. The M3/M4 sound lousy because they're not muffled the right way to sound good.

That's about $200 AUD in material and a day's work and I'd guarantee that no 5k bolt on will sound better or make more power than this!!

Last edited by RevNev; 03-08-2019 at 11:24 AM. Reason: typo
Appreciate 1
      03-09-2019, 12:55 AM   #30
PAY M3
Enlisted Member
PAY M3's Avatar
53
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 Comp Package
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Honolulu, HI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RevNev View Post
I've fabricated exhaust systems and mufflers for road and race cars for 40 years and feeling a bit lazy I've looked at and listened to many bolt on systems but none sound great and the price of them is out of control.

The twin pipes need to be joined after the downpipe flange to get rid of the farty 6 cylinder spilt system sound to make it sound higher pitched and more blended. In other words, make it sound like it's doing 7000rpm when it's doing 5000rpm. Joining the twin pipes together for 5" like a large capacity X pipe will do it.

The cats need to come off with a remedy for the CEL light of course, but what we do in Australia given that cats only have to be seen on the car, I cut the downpipe cats open on the welds knock the guts out and weld a 3" perforated stainless tube in the centre with stainless wool packing and TIG them back together on the welds and they look totally unmodified stock.

The secondary cats I'd cut out completely and fit 2 straight through perforated tube glass packed resonators about 16" long. The resonator providing it's not restrictive internally, I'd cut the top off it and pack it with fibreglass or stainless wool and weld the top back on.

The rear muffler is likely an open chamber muffler with no packing and that's why it's raspy, mufflers "must" be packed to smoothen the note and remove the raspy sound. It's matter of cutting the top off the rear muffler and possibly replacing the tubes with full length perforated tube and packing the muffler cavity with glass and welding the top back on.

When the valves are open the rear muffler is bypassed and aside from the cats reducing the sound level, there's virtually no muffler to smoothen the note and straight pipe sounds terrible and loud doesn't mean it's a good note. The system has to have packed resonators before the valves to smoothen the note out. The M3/M4 sound lousy because they're not muffled the right way to sound good.

That's about $200 AUD in material and a day's work and I'd guarantee that no 5k bolt on will sound better or make more power than this!!
Do you have any videos of the sound I could expect from doing this? You'd make a damn good salesman btw.
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2019, 01:49 AM   #31
RevNev
Private
54
Rep
86
Posts

Drives: X3 M40i
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAY M3 View Post
Do you have any videos of the sound I could expect from doing this? You'd make a damn good salesman btw.
I'll do this to my M4 in the next few weeks and post a video. Exhaust notes work the same on any vehicle/engine and straight pipe and/or mechanical mufflers (non perforated tube & packed) creates the raspy sound. The farty sound on 6 cylinder engines is caused by the firing order whereby exhaust pulses are entering alternate groups of cylinders. V6's and inline 6's like the M4 engine when the cylinders are grouped 1,2,3 and 4,5,6 into separate pipes produce the same farty sound when the pipes remain separated. The earlier the pipes are joined into one, the less fartyness is heard at the exhaust outlet (rear of car).

Someone's done a 3.5" single mid pipe and the videos on that are far less farty than the dual mid pipes because they're joined into one then separated back into dual pipes which effectively remains a single exhaust pulse wise. The raspyness remains despite the single mid pipe because there's no mufflers with the valves open and with the valves closed, the rear muffler has no packing in it to smoothen out the note and remove the rasp.

The engine doesn't emit the crappy exhaust note, the fault lays with the exhaust configuration and lack of muffler packing fundamentally.

Last edited by RevNev; 03-09-2019 at 01:50 AM. Reason: typo
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2019, 07:07 AM   #32
gatorfast
Major General
gatorfast's Avatar
United_States
2279
Rep
5,457
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SoFla

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RevNev View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAY M3 View Post
Do you have any videos of the sound I could expect from doing this? You'd make a damn good salesman btw.
I'll do this to my M4 in the next few weeks and post a video. Exhaust notes work the same on any vehicle/engine and straight pipe and/or mechanical mufflers (non perforated tube & packed) creates the raspy sound. The farty sound on 6 cylinder engines is caused by the firing order whereby exhaust pulses are entering alternate groups of cylinders. V6's and inline 6's like the M4 engine when the cylinders are grouped 1,2,3 and 4,5,6 into separate pipes produce the same farty sound when the pipes remain separated. The earlier the pipes are joined into one, the less fartyness is heard at the exhaust outlet (rear of car).

Someone's done a 3.5" single mid pipe and the videos on that are far less farty than the dual mid pipes because they're joined into one then separated back into dual pipes which effectively remains a single exhaust pulse wise. The raspyness remains despite the single mid pipe because there's no mufflers with the valves open and with the valves closed, the rear muffler has no packing in it to smoothen out the note and remove the rasp.

The engine doesn't emit the crappy exhaust note, the fault lays with the exhaust configuration and lack of muffler packing fundamentally.
Ehh there may be some truth to what you are saying but that would mean every after market exhaust system also employs the same muffler design since they are basically sound sole form of raspy/harsh.

But I'm interested to hear what your car sounds like after you do that!
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2019, 10:12 AM   #33
RevNev
Private
54
Rep
86
Posts

Drives: X3 M40i
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
that would mean every after market exhaust system also employs the same muffler design since they are basically sound sole form of raspy/harsh.
Most of the aftermarket exhausts have no mufflers before the valves with noise dampened by the cats. That will never have a good note with virtually straight pipe. With cat-less down pipes there are no mufflers at all with the valves open and that'll create a racket, loud raspy and awful.

It's likely that most of the rear mufflers are open chamber and aren't packed and although this design reduces noise, it actually makes the raspyness worse. If the rear muffler's packed, it'll be a bit louder than an open chamber muffler with the valves closed or partially closed but the note will deeper and smooth.
Appreciate 1
      03-09-2019, 07:27 PM   #34
AYF80
Major
64
Rep
1,116
Posts

Drives: 2015 AY F80
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RevNev View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
that would mean every after market exhaust system also employs the same muffler design since they are basically sound sole form of raspy/harsh.
Most of the aftermarket exhausts have no mufflers before the valves with noise dampened by the cats. That will never have a good note with virtually straight pipe. With cat-less down pipes there are no mufflers at all with the valves open and that'll create a racket, loud raspy and awful.

It's likely that most of the rear mufflers are open chamber and aren't packed and although this design reduces noise, it actually makes the raspyness worse. If the rear muffler's packed, it'll be a bit louder than an open chamber muffler with the valves closed or partially closed but the note will deeper and smooth.
What about the AA single 3" exhaust? It's joined after the down pipes.
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2019, 08:16 PM   #35
LOW4LYF
Colonel
LOW4LYF's Avatar
586
Rep
2,108
Posts

Drives: ///M4 COMPETITION
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: @Home

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M/// View Post
MPE one of the wors looking setups? Says a guy with a Remus
At least they don't crack and sound soooooooo good!
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2019, 09:45 PM   #36
///M///
Brigadier General
///M///'s Avatar
1522
Rep
3,390
Posts

Drives: 2016 Manual AW F80
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Philly

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
At least they don't crack and sound soooooooo good!
My response was specifically to his comment on the looks of the MPE being the worst looking exhaust. Here is another lol to that....

But since you bring up cracks, mine has 13k miles, no cracks so far.

Cheers.
__________________
=========================
2016 F80 M3 AW/SO (Manual) - Picked up at the Welt 08/28/15

My Amazing European Delivery Story
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2019, 01:19 AM   #37
RevNev
Private
54
Rep
86
Posts

Drives: X3 M40i
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AYF80 View Post
What about the AA single 3" exhaust? It's joined after the down pipes.
I think the AA one is 3.5" and flows similar to twin 2.5" and that will remove the farty sound but there's still no muffler before the valves and 3.5" mufflers are bulky and take up space. Joining the twin pipes then separating them again does the same thing as a single mid pipe but there's more room for resonators with the dual exhaust to remove the raspyness than there is with a 3.5" single.
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2019, 06:57 PM   #38
G4BR13L
Major
G4BR13L's Avatar
Belgium
406
Rep
1,081
Posts

Drives: BMW M4
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Lummen (Belgium)

iTrader: (0)

There is a reason why this European car comes with catalytic converters, a center muffler and a rear muffler and its not BMWs fault. In Australia there might be different rules but in most of Europe catless downpipes are illegal. Cars have to go through a periodic inspection including emission tests and cars have to meet all these standards or they will get rejected.

Cars come with a Certificate of Conformity and on that document are the noise levels. These cars are required to meet Europe-wide noise limits. Here is an example for my F82:

Name:  A5DBD7E6-601C-44BF-8A03-C3BCA997E8E7.jpeg
Views: 90
Size:  288.6 KB

Considering how strict Europe is regarding noise limits and emissions BMW did a pretty damn good job if you ask me!

Non- homologated catalytic converters, mufflers, ... are prohibited in Europe and there are talks to even take away the homologation of the MPE:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1510264

Heck even the exhaust valves actuators are point of discussion in Europe.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...an-noise-laws/

So yes it annoys me how people come in here and preach about how farty the I6 sounds. Dont you think that the engineers at BMW could have come up with something better would they be allowed too.

Last edited by G4BR13L; 03-10-2019 at 07:14 PM.
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2019, 07:27 PM   #39
rarlyl8
Private
rarlyl8's Avatar
59
Rep
89
Posts

Drives: M5/328it/Wrangler
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy L Garage View Post
Been there done that.

AA midpipe and call it s day.
I’ve tried multiple setups.

Great video man!
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2019, 07:45 PM   #40
AYF80
Major
64
Rep
1,116
Posts

Drives: 2015 AY F80
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by G4BR13L View Post
There is a reason why this European car comes with catalytic converters, a center muffler and a rear muffler and it’s not BMW’s fault. In Australia there might be different rules but in most of Europe catless downpipes are illegal. Cars have to go through a periodic inspection including emission tests and cars have to meet all these standards or they will get rejected.

Cars come with a Certificate of Conformity and on that document are the noise levels. These cars are required to meet Europe-wide noise limits. Here is an example for my F82:

Attachment 2007554

Considering how strict Europe is regarding noise limits and emissions BMW did a pretty damn good job if you ask me!

Non- homologated catalytic converters, mufflers, ... are prohibited in Europe and there are talks to even take away the homologation of the MPE:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1510264

Heck even the exhaust valves actuators are point of discussion in Europe.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...an-noise-laws/

So yes it annoys me how people come in here and preach about how ‘farty’ the I6 sounds. Don’t you think that the engineers at BMW could have come up with something better would they be allowed too.
Yes i think they could have. My 335i sounded beautiful... i don't see the problem.
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2019, 07:53 PM   #41
G4BR13L
Major
G4BR13L's Avatar
Belgium
406
Rep
1,081
Posts

Drives: BMW M4
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Lummen (Belgium)

iTrader: (0)

Making the car sound good for 350 Australian Dollars is not the challenge. Making the car sound good and at the same time meet these ridiculous European demands is the real art!
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:32 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST