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      04-13-2021, 07:03 PM   #4533
chris719
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In unrelated news a car factory here is laying off folks cuz they can't get chips. Chips, they go with fish, those must come from England, right?
This one is harder for me to to understand in terms of why there is such a shortage. The likes of AMD, NVIDIA, Xilinx, Qualcomm, etc. have little choice but to fab at TSMC as they are the technology leader. Automotive chips in general are fabricated on older processes and are much more easily moved around around the globe. This shortage is more poor planning and bad luck (Renesas and AKM fires) than a Taiwanese bottleneck. There are of course raw materials issues as well, but this shouldn't have happened.
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      04-14-2021, 02:49 PM   #4534
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This one is harder for me to to understand in terms of why there is such a shortage. The likes of AMD, NVIDIA, Xilinx, Qualcomm, etc. have little choice but to fab at TSMC as they are the technology leader. Automotive chips in general are fabricated on older processes and are much more easily moved around around the globe. This shortage is more poor planning and bad luck (Renesas and AKM fires) than a Taiwanese bottleneck. There are of course raw materials issues as well, but this shouldn't have happened.
I hate movies. They seldom portray life accurately.

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      04-14-2021, 09:22 PM   #4535
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
This one is harder for me to to understand in terms of why there is such a shortage. The likes of AMD, NVIDIA, Xilinx, Qualcomm, etc. have little choice but to fab at TSMC as they are the technology leader. Automotive chips in general are fabricated on older processes and are much more easily moved around around the globe. This shortage is more poor planning and bad luck (Renesas and AKM fires) than a Taiwanese bottleneck. There are of course raw materials issues as well, but this shouldn't have happened.
Interesting, I was wondering about this as it seemed kinda bizarre (the auto chip shortage, as I understand like you said, no Taiwan fab), but I don't know much about the market - good insights!
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      04-14-2021, 11:40 PM   #4536
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Interesting, I was wondering about this as it seemed kinda bizarre (the auto chip shortage, as I understand like you said, no Taiwan fab), but I don't know much about the market - good insights!
They could still be mainly fabricated in Taiwan, as another big player (UMC) is there, but there are generally no special requirements. I'm sure the demand in other areas may have a spillover effect since there isn't going to be a lot of excess capacity to pick up the slack. In automotive, Renesas, NXP, Infineon, and ST are big. Renesas fabricated most stuff in Japan, not sure about the others but I'd guess mainly Europe.

Really, I just want to say that Renesas sucks and I have no idea why they are popular with automakers. Thankfully their stuff is not that popular in medical. Every time I've worked with their MCUs it has been a pain in the ass. Overall, it would be nice if the Japanese would stop letting their fabs catch fire. First AKM's fab just about burned down, causing a huge shortage of audio related chips and some sensors. Renesas then took on starting to produce some of their purely digital parts to help them recover and then they have a fire... If I didn't know how incompetent people can be I'd probably blame the Yakuza .

Last edited by chris719; 04-14-2021 at 11:51 PM..
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      04-16-2021, 03:54 PM   #4537
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NASA says SpaceX wins $2.9 billion contract for moon spacecraft https://reut.rs/3ebJmJJ

Does this mean the SLS is out?
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      04-16-2021, 05:00 PM   #4538
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NASA says SpaceX wins $2.9 billion contract for moon spacecraft https://reut.rs/3ebJmJJ

Does this mean the SLS is out?
Donít worry, we wonít cancel the most high tech jobs program in history.

Seriously, it seems the window of usefulness is closing, but somehow I think the project will go on. Feels like the F35.
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      04-16-2021, 10:35 PM   #4539
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My arm hurts.

How's your day?
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      04-16-2021, 10:52 PM   #4540
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My arm hurts.

How's your day?
Quit trying to hit the tennis ball so hard!
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      04-16-2021, 11:02 PM   #4541
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My concern is that China will not take direct action. They saber rattle and wait for a period of internal instability that either naturally occurs or is caused by their agents. With Taiwan, I suspect they will try this route.

They tried to influence Australia this way and were caught. That's why Australian and China relations are now very frosty.

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lol they already are doing it.

China's been rattling sabers for the past year because the opposite party took control in a landslide for the past two elections. The party in control are for strict Taiwan independence while the former party was the one that was formerly in control of China years before the Civil War.

What happened in Hong Kong will absolutely happen to Taiwan if China ever got their way. There is a reason why the "government" in China is acting the way they are.

Unlike the US, Taiwan has been under constant threat of war from China for years. The citizens who cares in Taiwan, deeply care for their independence and have little care for the Chinese Government. It is our parents, for the most part, that don't care nearly as much. They mostly care for just their living and well being (sound familiar?). Unlike the US though, my generation in Taiwan will probably not let the KMT back in control unless they change their stance completely on "Reunifying with China". KMT has been changing the way they been saying it ever since Hong Kong happened. DPP will be in control unless they mess up hard somehow.
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      04-16-2021, 11:11 PM   #4542
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Part of this reason of why TSM is so dominant today is that US chip companies were unwilling to invest the very large capital pools needed to create the kind of scale that TSM has. A lot of chip processing depends on the size of the factory; every tool has a unique signature. So for example; in a situation where you are making very high speed chips; only say 10% of your tools can achieve this. Which means that you have to plunk down lots of cash to get lots of tools.

How much is each tool?
The most expensive is usually the lithography scanner. It runs from $25M- $50M per tool. As we start probing atomic dimensions, that just exponentially blows up. And that's not accounting for other tools in the manufacturing process.

TSM for example, when they start a new node (i.e. dimension), will buy anywhere from 30-50 scanners. Nowadays, a state of the art factory runs close to $3B. US companies with their eyes on stock price and shareholder value, just balk at these prices. Only Intel is willing to do so because of the margins. Even they are struggling right now albeit because different reasons.

This is the curse of Wall Street. Its so short sighted on earnings only and with it, the US ceded manufacturing to other nations. This should have been a national security issue.

The US chip companies chose to do this because it got way too expensive. The labor quality here, aside from engineers, were not of the same quality as Asia too.


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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
This one is harder for me to to understand in terms of why there is such a shortage. The likes of AMD, NVIDIA, Xilinx, Qualcomm, etc. have little choice but to fab at TSMC as they are the technology leader. Automotive chips in general are fabricated on older processes and are much more easily moved around around the globe. This shortage is more poor planning and bad luck (Renesas and AKM fires) than a Taiwanese bottleneck. There are of course raw materials issues as well, but this shouldn't have happened.
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      04-16-2021, 11:31 PM   #4543
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My arm hurts.

How's your day?
Wait until get to be almost 50.............
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      04-17-2021, 10:51 AM   #4544
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My arm hurts.

How's your day?
Wait until get to be almost 50.............
Least you get to have the vaccine early!
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      04-17-2021, 10:59 AM   #4545
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Least you get to have the vaccine early!
That was more because I work in healthcare, but you are right, there are some benefits to being older. My wife gets her second shot tomorrow morning. We are both relieved to get to this spot. Hopefully they can approve a vaccine for kids fairly soon.
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      04-19-2021, 04:34 PM   #4546
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Arc: seriously. I have a retirement account now, haven't bought a car since Peter and since the hubby just bought us a puppy cuz I didn't replace Kissa either, I'm guessing I'll be soon stuck with a car of his flavor too.

If anyone needs marital tips here, please be advised against asking me.
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      04-19-2021, 04:44 PM   #4547
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That was more because I work in healthcare, but you are right, there are some benefits to being older. My wife gets her second shot tomorrow morning. We are both relieved to get to this spot. Hopefully they can approve a vaccine for kids fairly soon.
When my father was dying, we had a flu epidemic picking up here too. Our kids nurse stuck a needle to us all . "Won't give you all many days with him, but those might still be days"

I thought she was beyond cool always, but in that moment, I truly realized she cared more about men than I ever had.

At this rate we'll get ours in September, the hubby and I. Today I went to the grocery store and saw zero people without a mask.

I might be a rebel often, but not in this. Congratulations and I'll be posting about achieving that needle too when we get those.
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You're still a little new here, so I'll let you in on a little secret. Whenever Lups types gibberish, this is an opportunity for you to imagine it to be whatever you'd like it to be.
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How would you know this? Did mommy catch you jerking off to some Big Foot porn ?

Last edited by Lups; 04-20-2021 at 05:17 AM..
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      04-19-2021, 07:53 PM   #4548
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Arc: seriously. I have a retirement account now, haven't bought a car since Peter and since the hubby just bought us a puppy cuz I didn't replace Kissa either, I'm guessing I'll be soon stuck with a car of his flavor too.

If anyone needs marital tips here, please be advised against asking me.
Don't come to me for marriage advice, I have no clue what I am doing.
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      04-22-2021, 06:39 PM   #4549
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Hopefully they can approve a vaccine for kids fairly soon.
And dogs!

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      04-23-2021, 02:09 PM   #4550
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Arc: seriously. I have a retirement account now, haven't bought a car since Peter and since the hubby just bought us a puppy cuz I didn't replace Kissa either, I'm guessing I'll be soon stuck with a car of his flavor too.

If anyone needs marital tips here, please be advised against asking me.
Don't come to me for marriage advice, I have no clue what I am doing.
If anyone tells you they know what they're doing as far as marriage goes, run away quickly.
The only advice I would ever give someone else: Buy your wife flowers every week. That way when you screw up, & you feel compelled to buy her flowers because of guilt, she won't know the difference.
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      04-23-2021, 11:47 PM   #4551
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Dude, some of those G8x defenders are so delusional is actually kind of amusing.
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      04-23-2021, 11:53 PM   #4552
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Well, I get it. It's hard to listen to a core group of enthusiasts roll out negatives on your new pride and joy. Especially if they have a ring of truth .
Personally, if I like the car, I've noted the flaws and accepted them. I really don't bother trying to convince a group of detractors why they're wrong. Its a waste of my time and emotional energy.
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      04-23-2021, 11:56 PM   #4553
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Dude, some of those G8x defenders are so delusional is actually kind of amusing.
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Well, I get it. It's hard to listen to a core group of enthusiasts roll out negatives on your new pride and joy. Especially if they have a ring of truth .
I still think it’s funny that the mods move so quick to ban people in the G80 section but allow others to rile people up in the F8X one. Don’t care, just an observation as I’m only here for the entertainment and a few friends I’ve made here over the years.
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      04-24-2021, 12:01 AM   #4554
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To me, only insecure people bother to involve themselves in these discussions. They're not really in the spirit of true discussion and debating of the pros and cons, rather being trollish in their remarks.
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