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      11-08-2020, 07:21 PM   #1
chetsstm3
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GTS manual conversion?

Does anyone know if a manual conversion is reasonably possible for a GTS? I did a quick search but haven't found anything too helpful. It's really a great car but I just never drive it because I long to row my own gears. I was getting ready to take a bath on it and let her go but I figured a quick post here might breathe new life into the GTS for me! Thanks for any help.
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      11-09-2020, 09:01 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chetsstm3 View Post
Does anyone know if a manual conversion is reasonably possible for a GTS? I did a quick search but haven't found anything too helpful. It's really a great car but I just never drive it because I long to row my own gears. I was getting ready to take a bath on it and let her go but I figured a quick post here might breathe new life into the GTS for me! Thanks for any help.
Definitely yes. Just like the regular F8X M can be swapped.

There are places that specialize in swaps. The guys that build E91 M3 wagons, F81 M3s, etc. These people would not have an issue.

I'm not going to get into the whole 'it's not worth it blahblah' story. It's your car, your money and you can do whatever you want with it. A manual GTS would be pretty spectacular and as all the parts exist from the F8X M3 6MT it wouldn't be a frankenstein, it would work like an OEM 6MT car.
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      11-09-2020, 09:02 AM   #3
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Certainly doable and would reduce weight by about 50 pounds.
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      11-09-2020, 10:13 AM   #4
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The weird thing is that this is the first thread I've ever read about someone thinking to do a manual conversion on ANY F8x. I mean I'm sure they exist but I don't remember reading about any of them...

I personally feel DCT is a much better fit for any F8x than manuals.
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      11-09-2020, 11:47 AM   #5
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Please keep us updated if you do go through with it. I'd love to follow the process.
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      11-09-2020, 11:51 AM   #6
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You need a shop that knows what they're doing and has experience swapping stuff in BMWs

Then you need a 6MT tranny from an F8X from a junkyard or something. The pedal etc you will have to buy new along with the linkage etc.
Your driveshaft already works with the DCT or the 6MT so your problems end there.
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      11-09-2020, 01:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
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I personally feel DCT is a much better fit for any F8x than manuals.
Agreed, I don't think it would add much to the experience if it were manual.
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      11-09-2020, 08:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 786 View Post
Agreed, I don't think it would add much to the experience if it were manual.
ive had both and while the gts dct is great, id still rather have it as a 6mt, ive though about doing this for a long time, but dont feel like running into any headaches
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      11-09-2020, 10:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Studntloan View Post
ive had both and while the gts dct is great, id still rather have it as a 6mt, ive though about doing this for a long time, but dont feel like running into any headaches
you've had both what? manual and auto F8X? not sure what you mean.

i've had plenty of manuals over the years, on some cars it really makes sense. cars slow enough to savor. on faster cars i dont think it adds much to the experience. these newer cars were designed with DCT/PDK from the outset, manuals were an afterthought (when offered). back when they were new my buddy had an E92 M3 manual and it was just slow and boring, did not compliment the engine's characteristics at all. he sold it a few months later.

i personally would not hack up a limited special car like a GTS for some perceived benefit that may or may not materialize.
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      11-10-2020, 05:54 AM   #10
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Thanks for all of the replies and thoughts. While it certainly begs the question as to why one would hack up a special edition car when you could just build up an already manual M4. I have owned the car for a little over 4 years, love everything about it except the flappy paddles. Because of this the car never sees any use. I knew from the beginning that it would be an issue however I was building my dream M3 collection and was offered an allocation for a GTS and felt that it was the ultimate expression of the F series M4 so.... I have since moved on after a nearly 25 year love fest with the M3 having recently sold my E36, E36 LTW, E46. My E92 is likely to be sold next leaving the GTS and my E30 (which will go last if ever). The GTS has lost so much in value it doesn't make sense to move it so why not make it a car I want to drive more? I've reached out to a couple of highly experienced BMW shops and am waiting to hear back their thoughts. Stay tuned!
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      11-10-2020, 07:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chetsstm3 View Post
Thanks for all of the replies and thoughts. While it certainly begs the question as to why one would hack up a special edition car when you could just build up an already manual M4. I have owned the car for a little over 4 years, love everything about it except the flappy paddles. Because of this the car never sees any use. I knew from the beginning that it would be an issue however I was building my dream M3 collection and was offered an allocation for a GTS and felt that it was the ultimate expression of the F series M4 so.... I have since moved on after a nearly 25 year love fest with the M3 having recently sold my E36, E36 LTW, E46. My E92 is likely to be sold next leaving the GTS and my E30 (which will go last if ever). The GTS has lost so much in value it doesn't make sense to move it so why not make it a car I want to drive more? I've reached out to a couple of highly experienced BMW shops and am waiting to hear back their thoughts. Stay tuned!
What are the specs on the e92 that "may be for sale soon"?
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      11-10-2020, 09:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chetsstm3 View Post
Thanks for all of the replies and thoughts. While it certainly begs the question as to why one would hack up a special edition car when you could just build up an already manual M4. I have owned the car for a little over 4 years, love everything about it except the flappy paddles. Because of this the car never sees any use. I knew from the beginning that it would be an issue however I was building my dream M3 collection and was offered an allocation for a GTS and felt that it was the ultimate expression of the F series M4 so.... I have since moved on after a nearly 25 year love fest with the M3 having recently sold my E36, E36 LTW, E46. My E92 is likely to be sold next leaving the GTS and my E30 (which will go last if ever). The GTS has lost so much in value it doesn't make sense to move it so why not make it a car I want to drive more? I've reached out to a couple of highly experienced BMW shops and am waiting to hear back their thoughts. Stay tuned!
This should have been your first post

Makes a lot more sense now and, if converting to manual would make you drive the GTS more, I say go for it. Just do the conversion right using all OEM parts, competent shop etc. It's like the guys converting Ferrari 360CS' or E46 CSL's, only worth doing if done right. Good luck and keep us updated!
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      11-10-2020, 10:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 786 View Post
This should have been your first post

Makes a lot more sense now and, if converting to manual would make you drive the GTS more, I say go for it. Just do the conversion right using all OEM parts, competent shop etc. It's like the guys converting Ferrari 360CS' or E46 CSL's, only worth doing if done right. Good luck and keep us updated!
Those are quite a bit easier, since the "auto" box in those cars is identical to the manual variant. Prior to buying my GTS, I was looking at buying a 360 and manual swapping it - I developed an entire parts list and found sources for everything before my GTS fell into my lap.

It's just a matter of swapping out the SMG/F1 pump and solenoids, adding a clutch pedal, gear shift, manual linkage, and slave cylinder. The parts can be hard to find/expensive, but the actual process is quite straightforward.

This (DCT to manual) is a whole 'nother thing, although certainly still do-able.
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      11-10-2020, 11:26 AM   #14
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You should follow Modificata on IG if you don't already. I too looked into building a 360 like the one they have built, but don't have the time right now even to babysit a shop doing a build.

But they made one hell of a car. Started with the base car salvaged from the ocean!

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      11-10-2020, 01:29 PM   #15
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it would be a fairly simple swap. I've done some of these on older M cars and it was pretty straight forward. Mechanically everything is there and readily available. The only issue you'd run into is the computer which would easily be taken care of through programming. more than likely parts list would look like, Engine harness for manual as the harness has connectors for sensors for the auto trans which wont be used in the manual unless the harness is the same or you're willing to hack up your current harness, clutch, flywheel, transmission, drive shaft if necessary, need to look at auto vs manual rear gearing if diff if the same then no need to do anything here, trans tunnel modification unless the hole is the same for the 2 then no need for parts, manual shifter and interior bezel shifter surround for manual, manual transmission mount bracket & bushings. After parts are sourced and installed you will need to program the ecu for manual.
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      11-10-2020, 02:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatazz7 View Post
it would be a fairly simple swap. I've done some of these on older M cars and it was pretty straight forward. Mechanically everything is there and readily available. The only issue you'd run into is the computer which would easily be taken care of through programming. more than likely parts list would look like, Engine harness for manual as the harness has connectors for sensors for the auto trans which wont be used in the manual unless the harness is the same or you're willing to hack up your current harness, clutch, flywheel, transmission, drive shaft if necessary, need to look at auto vs manual rear gearing if diff if the same then no need to do anything here, trans tunnel modification unless the hole is the same for the 2 then no need for parts, manual shifter and interior bezel shifter surround for manual, manual transmission mount bracket & bushings. After parts are sourced and installed you will need to program the ecu for manual.
I don't know that you can be so sure. On older SMG M cars, the automated manual and manual shared the same gearbox - one was manually controlled with a linkage and the other was computer controlled with an SMG pump and solenoids. The chassis were identical, making it easy for the production line (and later owners) to make SMG or manual vehicles. Harness plugs for manuals were simply tucked away on SMG cars and vice versa, so it was very easy to add manual specific or SMG specific harness add-ons. The same is true of a lot of 2000-2010 vehicles with automated manual transmissions (Ferrari/Maserati with the F1 box, Lamborghini with E-Gear, Audi with R-Tronic, BMW with SMG).

The DCT box and the manual box are not even remotely close to each other in terms of operation/size/etc. While the F8x offered both manual and DCT, I am not sure that the chassis of manual and DCT cars are identical, especially in the case of the GTS, which was not designed with a manual box in mind.

It's certainly possible that the chassis is adaptable, but the wiring harness could be a big issue, particularly on a GTS (i.e. no plugs for a manual harness, so would need custom splicing). The aforementioned chassis changes would mean cutting or modification to get the manual box to fit.

It could be a relatively simple project or could be a total nightmare. No way to tell until you get it up on a lift and start looking at these things.
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      11-10-2020, 05:21 PM   #17
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Here's another thought. Have you considered trying to get a M2 CS manual?
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      11-10-2020, 08:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 786 View Post
you've had both what? manual and auto F8X? not sure what you mean.

i've had plenty of manuals over the years, on some cars it really makes sense. cars slow enough to savor. on faster cars i dont think it adds much to the experience. these newer cars were designed with DCT/PDK from the outset, manuals were an afterthought (when offered). back when they were new my buddy had an E92 M3 manual and it was just slow and boring, did not compliment the engine's characteristics at all. he sold it a few months later.

i personally would not hack up a limited special car like a GTS for some perceived benefit that may or may not materialize.

I had a 6spd M4 previously and absolutely loved it, the f8x manual trans is the best bmw has put in an M car, the E9x is relatively garbage in comparison.
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      11-11-2020, 08:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Studntloan View Post
I had a 6spd M4 previously and absolutely loved it, the f8x manual trans is the best bmw has put in an M car, the E9x is relatively garbage in comparison.
agreed. I've been hearing engines are designed for autos/pdf/dct/whatever since the E46M back in the stone age, I have yet to drive a car where I feel this is a true statement.
I like DCTs and have two of them, but the 6MT experience is superior unless I am at the racetrack.

It sounds like OP is building what Porsche offered with the Touring 991.2 GT3. Manual, because not everyone is using the cars for the racetrack.
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      11-11-2020, 10:52 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
agreed. I've been hearing engines are designed for autos/pdf/dct/whatever since the E46M back in the stone age, I have yet to drive a car where I feel this is a true statement.
I like DCTs and have two of them, but the 6MT experience is superior unless I am at the racetrack.
Go drive an E60 or F10 M5 manual. It's a joke.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/
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      11-11-2020, 12:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 786 View Post
Go drive an E60 or F10 M5 manual. It's a joke.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/
I've driven the E60 6MT pretty often. I have right of first refusal on two of them owned by friends.
I don't have any complaints, I think they drive great. Much better than the SMGIII M5 I've also driven.
The only manual car that's made me think W.T.F. is the 981 GT4, now that gearing is full out retarded. For all the complaints of the E60 6MT gearing, it's still a whole lot better than the old GT4.

Haven't driven the F10 M5 6MT


Edit: I don't read the C&D article as 'a joke'. It has disadvantages, but they say 'we still might'. Not 'we would'. To drive even an E9X 6MT smoothly is not something that just happens on the first drive and I expect this to be the same.
0-60 0.3 seconds slower in a metric I could literally care less about. I don't launch any of my cars. Quarter mile which is better indicative of performance is 0.2s behind and 3mph slower... I don't see where the huge problem comes in.
For a track car I'd have DCT. I have two DCT track cars. For the street I prefer 6MT, and I have a 6MT M3 for that. An M5 would not be for the track anyway, so I'd prefer 6MT.
If I had a GTS and were not going to track it I would also prefer 6MT.

The time has long since passed when we expect manual-transmission cars to be quicker than their auto-shifting counterparts. So it was no surprise that the manual car was three-tenths of a second slower to 60 (4.0 seconds versus 3.7) and a couple of tenths less quick through the quarter mile (12.1 at 120 mph versus 11.9 at 123). This bothers us not one bit. A 4.0-second-to-60 luxury sports sedan is still plenty enough.

The surprise was that, after our time in the manual-equipped car, we might actually choose the DCT, were we buying an M5. Yes, we're the "Save the Manuals!" guys. And we're delighted that BMW decided to make the manual available. But this marriage of manual transmission to M5 is not an especially happy one. The clutch takeup is abrupt. Perhaps it will mellow with age, but our tester, with 4800 miles, is all we have to judge. What's less likely to improve over the car's life is the shifter, which is long of throw and rubbery in action. The M5 manual also suffers from a distressing amount of fore-aft movement, which we're attributing to driveline windup and inappropriate throttle mapping. Try as hard as we might, a run through all the gears had all of our passengers nodding their heads in sympathy with every shift. This is a difficult car to drive smoothly.

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 11-11-2020 at 04:52 PM..
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      11-11-2020, 11:20 PM   #22
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The F8x generation manual shifter is glorious if you install the CAE shifter. I have it on my F80 and I can never go back. Pair it with a manual GTS and you’re in driving nirvana!
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