Cary Jordan no longer offering Stage 2 tunes?

[s55jesus]

So just an FYI for everyone. One of my buddies brought this to my attention after buying a custom tune from Cary Jordan and had his order canceled with no refund.

It seems like he no longer offers custom tunes to folks who have catless dp's or "emissions altering" equipment. Stage 1 with OEM downpipes is as far as he will go now from the looks of it and the explanation on his site.

[slaughter.mode]

Yikes. I know lots of people who have Jordan tunes...all full E85 all full cat-less and all very happy with it. I suppose with popularity comes unwanted PR, including that from those in compliance. Tough break for this brand and those caught in the political bs.

[fiveohwblow]

I wish the ridiculous overreach of the epa and many other three letter assholes would cease to exist with permanence. My tax dollars used against my desires.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by eff80m3

So just an FYI for everyone. One of my buddies brought this to my attention after buying a custom tune from Cary Jordan and had his order canceled with no refund.

It seems like he no longer offers custom tunes to folks who have catless dp's or "emissions altering" equipment. Stage 1 with OEM downpipes is as far as he will go now from the looks of it and the explanation on his site.

[TopJimmy]

meh... not a biggie. Cary has to deal with the law like we all do.
Put your cats on, get your Stage 2, then de-cat and flip the switch inside BM3.

[Wanted_M]

But what if the switch goes away? Look what happened to SCT, Bully dog and others. He probably got an EPA letter as it all extends from link below..
https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/deri...act-settlement

[slaughter.mode]

All I know is...MHD 3.4.0 is great...especially with my MHD ECA unit and Flex tune by another tuner which I wont mention for obvious reasons. 700whp F82 daily driver is kind of amazing, not gonna lie.


...PS-mind ya business when you see me rolling around with 18s on the back and 20s in the front. I have issues, traction issues.

[hellokitty]

It looks like the alternative here is to go with AA downpipes with gesi v2 cats (latest version released last month).

Based on my research, those cats can handle up to 550ish hp PER downpipe and remain 49 state EPA compliant without any loss in horsepower.

[SnoozieToofs]

Originally Posted by eff80m3

So just an FYI for everyone. One of my buddies brought this to my attention after buying a custom tune from Cary Jordan and had his order canceled with no refund.

It seems like he no longer offers custom tunes to folks who have catless dp's or "emissions altering" equipment. Stage 1 with OEM downpipes is as far as he will go now from the looks of it and the explanation on his site.

How did he find out about the downpipes? Did your friend tell him when asked about his mods, or did Cary assume he was catless when seeing the CEL?
Then Cancelling the order as a result.

After reading over The info on the website, I’m slightly confused by the wording.

Does the LLC mean that if you sign their waiver and terms doc, they assume you are catted and will proceed with the tune so long as you don’t make them think otherwise via communication/correspondence? Or are they denying/canceling services to anybody with a CEL? I.E. Suspected emissions device tampering.

I wonder if it’s the former, because otherwise I feel the language regarding not altering readiness or removing the related CEL would then be redundant, at least from my interpretation of the overall context. For Example: If there is a CEL while tuning, and the LLC asks if you have catless, to which you respond No. Then I can see how that language makes sense, as they can then inform the customer that they will continue based on that response and fixing the CEL is your responsibility since they will not remove the CEL or alter any related readiness flags. In this instance I see how that language can still be included as supplemental information in the case of the former.

However, if it’s the latter... then the LLC should at least clarify by specifically pointing that out since I believe their strict NO REFUND policy is a bit harsh - might I say unfair - in this case and could catch some customers off guard with little to no recourse after the fact. I can’t imagine Cary allowing a customer to make the purchase then seeing the CEL for the initial revision, only to tell them “you got a CEL, whoops emissions flag, Do NOT pass GO, thanks for the $$$, don’t let the door hit you on the way out”, or can I? Again, If this is indeed the case then the language surrounding CEL and Emissions readiness would be greatly helpful, although this time modified somewhat to reflect this.

Looking forward to everyone’s thoughts and insight on this.

[steven.dbc]

Originally Posted by SnoozieToofs

How did he find out about the downpipes? Did your friend tell him when asked about his mods, or did Cary assume he was catless when seeing the CEL?
Then Cancelling the order as a result.

After reading over The info on the website, I'm slightly confused by the wording.

Does the LLC mean that if you sign their waiver and terms doc, they assume you are catted and will proceed with the tune so long as you don't make them think otherwise via communication/correspondence? Or are they denying/canceling services to anybody with a CEL? I.E. Suspected emissions device tampering.

I wonder if it's the former, because otherwise I feel the language regarding not altering readiness or removing the related CEL would then be redundant, at least from my interpretation of the overall context. For Example: If there is a CEL while tuning, and the LLC asks if you have catless, to which you respond No. Then I can see how that language makes sense, as they can then inform the customer that they will continue based on that response and fixing the CEL is your responsibility since they will not remove the CEL or alter any related readiness flags. In this case I see how that language can still be included as supplemental information in the case of the former.

However, if it's the latter... then the LLC should at least clarify by pointing that out since I believe their strict NO REFUND policy is a bit unfair in this instance and could catch some customers off guard with no recourse after the fact. I can't imagine Cary allowing a customer to make the purchase then seeing the CEL for the initial revision, only to tell them "you got a CEL, whoops emissions flag, Do NOT pass GO, thanks for the $$$, don't let the door hit you on the way out", or can I?

Looking forward to everyone's thoughts and insight on this.

Originally Posted by SnoozieToofs

How did he find out about the downpipes? Did your friend tell him when asked about his mods, or did Cary assume he was catless when seeing the CEL?
Then Cancelling the order as a result.

After reading over The info on the website, I'm slightly confused by the wording.

Does the LLC mean that if you sign their waiver and terms doc, they assume you are catted and will proceed with the tune so long as you don't make them think otherwise via communication/correspondence? Or are they denying/canceling services to anybody with a CEL? I.E. Suspected emissions device tampering.

I wonder if it's the former, because otherwise I feel the language regarding not altering readiness or removing the related CEL would then be redundant, at least from my interpretation of the overall context. For Example: If there is a CEL while tuning, and the LLC asks if you have catless, to which you respond No. Then I can see how that language makes sense, as they can then inform the customer that they will continue based on that response and fixing the CEL is your responsibility since they will not remove the CEL or alter any related readiness flags. In this case I see how that language can still be included as supplemental information in the case of the former.

However, if it's the latter... then the LLC should at least clarify by pointing that out since I believe their strict NO REFUND policy is a bit unfair in this instance and could catch some customers off guard with no recourse after the fact. I can't imagine Cary allowing a customer to make the purchase then seeing the CEL for the initial revision, only to tell them "you got a CEL, whoops emissions flag, Do NOT pass GO, thanks for the $$$, don't let the door hit you on the way out", or can I?

Looking forward to everyone's thoughts and insight on this.

I dm'd him an he basically told me I have to be catted or else he can't tune my car so since i have catless downpipes i can't be tuned by him but this is only for california customers it sucks but i've heard alot of great things about f80paul so im gonna just go with him

[SnoozieToofs]

Originally Posted by steven.dbc

I dm'd him an he basically told me I have to be catted or else he can't tune my car so since i have catless downpipes i can't be tuned by him but this is only for california customers it sucks but i've heard alot of great things about f80paul so im gonna just go with him

Only California customers? Interesting...is that what he said? Is the LLC also based in California, hence the restrictions?

I wonder where the OP’s buddy is located.

[mike@x-ph.com]

I spoke to Cary on the phone last week, he told me that he will not be messing with catless downpipe for ALL US Customers, not just California.

It's a matter of time before all tuners do the same or risk losing their business.

Same thing is happening with vendors, you'll notice all the big vendors stopped offering catless downpipes as well

[rockstar b]

We can thank the diesel bros for this.

[slaughter.mode]

Most tuners have a form that they ask you to fill out with all mods. Downpipes are obviously a critical component the problem is the association with violating blah blah blah. I don't know why they didn't just create a waiver forcing everyone to sign stating it's for off road use only from the get go which would've probably mitigated all of this nonsense...but some of us are unfortunately here in the greediest *cough* greatest country in the world.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by nv_f82

Most tuners have a form that they ask you to fill out with all mods. Downpipes are obviously a critical component the problem is the association with violating blah blah blah. I don't know why they didn't just create a waiver forcing everyone to sign stating it's for off road use only from the get go which would've probably mitigated all of this nonsense...but some of us are unfortunately here in the greediest *cough* greatest country in the world.

waiver signs are no longer enough. the EPA is making that clear every day.

[Alanb97]

I wonder if Cary received a fine for tuning catless vehicles

[slaughter.mode]

How dare this guy convert hundreds of satisfies customers into using nontoxic and biodegradable ethanol which can even help reduce pollution, how dare he.

[SflBimmer8484]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

It looks like the alternative here is to go with AA downpipes with gesi v2 cats (latest version released last month).

Based on my research, those cats can handle up to 550ish hp PER downpipe and remain 49 state EPA compliant without any loss in horsepower.

[SnoozieToofs]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

I spoke to Cary on the phone last week, he told me that he will not be messing with catless downpipe for ALL US Customers, not just California.

It's a matter of time before all tuners do the same or risk losing their business.

Same thing is happening with vendors, you'll notice all the big vendors stopped offering catless downpipes as well

Did he specify how he determines that a customer is catless?

[SYT_Shadow]

This is the new reality. Tunes of any kind will soon be illegal

[slaughter.mode]

In California, it's been terrible. They auto fail you if you have modified software, even if you flashed it back to stock.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/e...-smog-testing/

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Alanb97

I wonder if Cary received a fine for tuning catless vehicles

He did not receive any fines or warnings

these kinds of fines are so large that if you get one, its too late to make any changes to your business