Adaptive vs. Passive Suspension

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

This is not accurate.

One the E9X, the EDC Comfort and Normal modes are dynamically adjusted while the Sport mode has a fixed damper setting. For those that have the ZCP competition pack, the Sport mode is also dynamically adjusted.

+1.

[jbraslins]

i had mine in sport entire time. Perhaps that is why i did not notie any active dyanmic changes. good to know. thx.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by jbraslins

i had mine in sport entire time. Perhaps that is why i did not notie any active dyanmic changes. good to know. thx.

Sport, IMO, is way too stiff for anything but smooth tracks. Several mag reviews have even stated they get best track times in Normal. I keep mine on Comfort 85% of the time and it does not feel too soft.

[Lups]

They should give out their ages, if they complain about ride comfort. Most M shoppers tough must be in their forties, so maybe this is a moot point.

I for one pretend to be a teenager for ever, so rough roads are a head of me.

[jbraslins]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Sport, IMO, is way too stiff for anything but smooth tracks. Several mag reviews have even stated they get best track times in Normal. I keep mine on Comfort 85% of the time and it does not feel too soft.

lol, sport was not stiff enough for me. sure it was harsh over bumps, but at turn in in sharp corners it was way too soft, so much body roll.

ohlins r&t fixed it all. less harsh, yet less body roll too.

[LSM]

The M6 is a different car after different buyers, but I always drive in sport plus mode bc the other to modes are just too soft. I never drive in comfort mode and am wondering if I need this option for M4.

Pertaining to the M4, will the standard suspension be like sport plus? Or what setting type of setting will the stadnard suspension give? Are there weight differences between the two suspensions? I like stiff handling and set-up, the only reason I would opt for the M suspension is to use sport plus, but if normal suspension is stiff enough that would be fine as well.

[gago1101]

Originally Posted by solstice

I had DDC on my F10 and didn't like:

- Flipping to sport mode every time the car was started.
- Since the springs are passive they have to be tuned for the softest mode.
- The electric dampers were not strong enough to overcome the weak springs.
- The car felt under springed and overdamped in all modes except the softest.
.

Driving my current Porsche PTT with PASM, I feel exactly the same. Initially I thought it was the air suspension that did it, but I think it likely had to do with springs. I always have my car on sport + and it kind of bounce and spongy. I owned a Panamera v6 before this with the regular suspension and loved it, much more planted and stable. IMHO it was much better than the expensive PASM on my current PTT. After this I am set not to buy cars with adaptive suspension again.

[aus]

Originally Posted by Lups

They should give out their ages, if they complain about ride comfort. Most M shoppers tough must be in their forties, so maybe this is a moot point.

I for one pretend to be a teenager for ever, so rough roads are a head of me.

For the E9x M3, it was bimodal with a peak in the late 20's and early 30's and another peak around 55-60 if I remember correctly. It was posted onM3post a couple years ago.

.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by gago1101

Driving my current Porsche PTT with PASM, I feel exactly the same. Initially I thought it was the air suspension that did it, but I think it likely had to do with springs. I always have my car on sport + and it kind of bounce and spongy. I owned a Panamera v6 before this with the regular suspension and loved it, much more planted and stable. IMHO it was much better than the expensive PASM on my current PTT. After this I am set not to buy cars with adaptive suspension again.

Sport+ mode in most cars will typically do exactly what you say: It will make the car bouncy on anything but smooth pavement.

For racetrack performance, you want very good control of any body motion in the 1-2Hz range for things like body roll, pitch, and heave. The bounce that you're feeling is probably something a bit higher, like 3-5Hz. Being able to have high damping at 1-2Hz but not become too stiff from 3-5Hz is very difficult, even with an adaptive damper. You have to have very responsive dampers with a wide range of adjustability as well as a very good control algorithm. Some suppliers aren't there yet.

I've never driven an adaptive system that I'd want to drive around full time in the stiffest mode, because it's purposely not designed for that.

These systems are as different as two different engines from two different automakers. Your experience with Porsche's system isn't really relevant to compare to BMW's Sach's system. Don't rule out one based on the other.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by aus

For the E9x M3, it was bimodal with a peak in the late 20's and early 30's and another peak around 55-60 if I remember correctly. It was posted onM3post a couple years ago.

.

What are you talking about

The different poll show a clear peak of M3 owners in the 28-45 range (over 50%).

[aus]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

What are you talking about

The different poll show a clear peak of M3 owners in the 28-45 range (over 50%).

If just shows how the forums are very biased.
I can't remember who posted the age distribution for the E9x M3, but I was surprised too. I will say, in Cali, where BMW sells more M cars than any other state, it's definitely mostly younger guys and older guys driving it.

.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by aus

If just shows how the forums are very biased.
I can't remember who posted the age distribution for the E9x M3, but I was surprised too. I will say, in Cali, where BMW sells more M cars than any other state, it's definitely mostly younger guys and older guys driving it.

.

I got my first M3 at 29, my second at 36 and now my third (first M4, but whatever) at 42

[aus]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I got my first M3 at 29, my second at 36 and now my third (first M4, but whatever) at 42

BMW needs to buy you and guys like Greg a beer for owning so many //M cars. I'm an E36 M3, X5 CSi (due to kids), and now 2 E92 M3's and in my mid 40's. Not sure about the F8x yet.

.

.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by aus

BMW needs to buy you and guys like Greg a beer for owning so many //M cars. I'm an E36 M3, X5 CSi (due to kids), and now 2 E92 M3's and in my mid 40's. Not sure about the F8x yet.

.

.

I got an ///M umbrella and a thank you note for "10 years of ///M ownership" .

But a case of beer would have been nice too

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by aus

BMW needs to buy you and guys like Greg a beer for owning so many //M cars. I'm an E36 M3, X5 CSi (due to kids), and now 2 E92 M3's and in my mid 40's. Not sure about the F8x yet.

I got a late start. This one will arrive at age 66. Not getting old anytime soon!

[aus]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

What are you talking about

The different poll show a clear peak of M3 owners in the 28-45 range (over 50%).

Found an article about this.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25352526/n.../#.U04cxJK9KSM

The average age is 41, but there is a bimodal peak in age distribution.

.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by aus

Found an article about this.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25352526/n.../#.U04cxJK9KSM

The average age is 41, but there is a bimodal peak in age distribution.

.

Interresting read. I am not sure how much I trust the data and sources in the article though. It seems they only want to prove the point that Gen-Y is self entitled and buy cars they cannot afford. I certainly know many M3 owners in their forties (which the article says don't exist)

[aus]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Interresting read. I am not sure how much I trust the data and sources in the article though. It seems they only want to prove the point that Gen-Y is self entitled and buy cars they cannot afford. I certainly know many M3 owners in their forties (which the article says don't exist)

We exist!!
The post on M3Post show a graph showing a peak in the 20's and 50's.
Wish I could find it.

[stressdoc]

Betting the owners in their 50s are more likely to have adaptive suspension than those in their 20s...

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Betting the owners in their 50s are more likely to have adaptive suspension than those in their 20s...

or more likely people who don't understand how active damping works.

the latest Porsche PASM has made me a convert. its amazing what can be done with the damping if properly tuned. lets hope BMW got it right

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

or more likely people who don't understand how active damping works.

the latest Porsche PASM has made me a convert. its amazing what can be done with the damping if properly tuned. lets hope BMW got it right

Yup. As I've said in many threads, this technology is advancing very quickly. It's one of the last highly profitable markets with major growth potential for shock absorber manufacturers, so they are all going at it full steam.

Now that the technology is actually able to deliver on the claims that have been made about these systems for the past 20 years, the automakers are eager to have the latest and greatest systems on their cars too.

For a well tuned system (ATS, Corvette, E9XM3), it's not even really up for discussion . . . the semi-active system objectively outperforms the passive system hands down. The gap will only get larger.

[Kief]

Seriously, curious how many guys are forgoing the Adaptive M Suspension?
I initially had it ordered, but then changed my order yesterday. I know there are a couple of Threads on the suspension upgrade, but am I correct that the standard suspension is set at "sport" if you do not check the box or is it set at "comfort?" I would prefer sport...