Adaptive suspension vs coil overs

[/// M sa]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That's a stretch.

I don't believe that for one second (I agree with you), I really think car makers (most not all, Audi is one company that I see their stock cars already pretty low) make their cars sit high and have a noticeable wheel gap. I really think it's to save their asses money for not effing up your car over bumps and pot holes. My little conspiracy theory lol.

[RocketBoots]

Originally Posted by //M sa

I don't believe that for one second (I agree with you), I really think car makers (most not all, Audi is one company that I see their stock cars already pretty low) make their cars sit high and have a noticeable wheel gap. I really think it's to save their asses money for not effing up your car over bumps and pot holes. My little conspiracy theory lol.

The thing about conspiracy theories: they're right a lot of the time

[/// M sa]

Originally Posted by RocketBoots

The thing about conspiracy theories: they're right a lot of the time

Well... Lol I think I am right in this case. Look at all racing cars, you couldn't fit a penny through the fender gap! If being higher meant it was better then Nascars and Drag cars would look like a e90 x drive :-)

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by //M sa

Well... Lol I think I am right in this case. Look at all racing cars, you couldn't fit a penny through the fender gap! If being higher meant it was better then Nascars and Drag cars would look like a e90 x drive :-)

Even some of the DTM cars have very little gap; others do because their fender design (..such as the BMW below)....

[/// M sa]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Even some of the DTM cars have very little gap; others do because their fender design (..such as the BMW below)....

Why couldn't they make the new M that low? Lol I would say though that needs a drop lol :-)

[M3ryder55]

your not driving a race car homie

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by M3ryder55

there is a reason why the best handling cars in the world have big fender gaps

if u track often--- coilovers

comfort/all around package--- adaptive m

want to feel the road more---- passive suspension

want the car to look aggressive- springs w/ adaptive m or passive.

when it comes to suspension, these cars are designed/engineered/track tested to perform for years. you think these companies like KW etc can engineer a suspension setup in a matter of a couple weeks that will out perform a suspension developed by bmw for years and years?...

agree with many of your points.

the reason many stock cars come with large fender gaps is because they are designed for public roads. hell, even Ferraris have huge fender gaps. however, the salient point regarding suspension geometry is that lower is not necessarily better unless the design was engineered to be at that height from the ground up. it's for that reason that I have to disagree that coilovers are necessarily better for regular tracking. from my first hand experience, it takes a very well done setup (with minimal change to ride height) to improve on handling performance. I agree with others here that there is some additional performance to be had by dialing out some of the everyday comfort that the M3 will come with out of the box, but I would wager dollars to donuts that it will involve a harsher ride and a ride height that is only a bit lower (not slammed).

[solstice]

Not surprising Porsche has the wheel gap thing down to perfection on the 991, all models. Not too much and not to little, just right. ( I think this an AWD C4S ).

[gee-m-w]

Anyone who steep rakes their 335i actually ends up compromising the "perfect" 50.0% / 50.0% front to rear weight balance. BMW's are set up like a bench press on the front axle to goose that number and shift weight rearward.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by solstice

Not surprising Porsche has the wheel gap thing down to perfection on the 991, all models. Not too much and not to little, just right. ( I think this an AWD C4S ).

I wouldn't call it perfection, if what you're talking about is just aesthetics. that's not an S model, and that picture doesn't make it easy to see the wheel gaps. here's a 991S, which has PASM standard and the lower ride height (the equivalent of the ZCP for the M), and you can still see there is a healthy gap there (not that it's a bad thing). I think the ZCP will be quite similar. so, not much difference at all.



why can't BMW offer a nice blue? I freakin' love this color.

[mact3333]

so not true about Porsches...their wheel gaps are huge too...worse than M3's...I had a C4S that needed to be dropped 20mm's with coils...its was a 997...maybe the newer models don't but I doubt it...even the 911TT's had a huge wheel gap and needs a drop badly....sorry about sizing.

M3 without coils:



M3 with coils:

[RocketBoots]

A slight drop, as in what you would get with a ZCP, does look pretty damn good...

[aus]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

The suspensions on these cars are extremely well developed. You have to really put in some high quality components to exceed the manufacturer's spec and reliability. You're not doing yourself any favors putting a $1000 or $2000 coilover kit from Bilstein or KW on this car. Honestly most people just want to "drop" their M3 and they're best suited replacing only the spring. I wouldn't even touch the swaybars on a RWD car putting almost 400 hp at the rear wheels - too easy to overdo it and have the car snap out on you.

If you want comfort, go for the adaptable BMW suspension. If you want pure performance, you go for the Ohlinx TTX Motorsport coilovers. These are no joke and you will have to rebuid them every couple of years.

http://performanceshock.com/index.ph...oducts_id=1179

What's your basis for implying Bilstein and KW do not make quality coils??

.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by aus

What's your basis for implying Bilstein and KW do not make quality coils??

.

+2

Especially since a lot of race cars use Bilstein suspension components.

[stressdoc]

I am less interested in chat about aftermarket suspension mods than substance about the adaptive suspension on the F8x...
As it stands we are in a data-free zone regarding comparison specs for adaptive vs. standard suspension on the F8x.

Anyone know of discussion by BMW engineers or rag tests that are salient?

[aus]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

+2

Especially since a lot of race cars use Bilstein suspension components.

And KW's are used in race cars too.
Maybe he meant a $1,000 coilover vs. stock? At $2,000 street price, you start to get into some pretty decent suspensions.

Having said that, my wife's 335 needed new struts and it would be around $900 for OEM units. Since we're getting rid of the car in 2 years, I opted for some ST-suspension coils for around $1,100 installed. They've been fine so far and have a 5 year warranty. I get the added benefit of ride height adjustment.
I'm wondering how much it would be to replace the adaptive shocks of the the F8x.

.

[gee-m-w]

Originally Posted by aus

What's your basis for implying Bilstein and KW do not make quality coils??

.

They make great coils for $25,000 cars. On this $81,000 car I don't think it's an improvement. Or my poor man's $51k S4.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by M3ryder55

there is a reason why the best handling cars in the world have big fender gaps

if u track often--- coilovers

comfort/all around package--- adaptive m

want to feel the road more---- passive suspension

want the car to look aggressive- springs w/ adaptive m or passive.

when it comes to suspension, these cars are designed/engineered/track tested to perform for years. you think these companies like KW etc can engineer a suspension setup in a matter of a couple weeks that will out perform a suspension developed by bmw for years and years?...

I would agree that there is a ton of r&d at the manufacturer. But a big part of this tuning is also that it is road compliant to satisfy 99% of its customers. Or they wont sell not make money.

You put in quality suspension and setut up correctly it WILL handle better. How the hell all these guys getting faster laptimes with suspension mods then?

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by aus

What's your basis for implying Bilstein and KW do not make quality coils??

.

I thought the kw's that us m3post members all get is at least $3500. And i know some of you have the competition yumminess too. Those arent that cheap. Neither are jrz pros that ppl are running. Where are we getting this $2000 coilover system on an m3 idea?!

[Kief]

Originally Posted by solstice

I still have a small hope that the passive suspension will use shorter springs and sit a bit lower.

Originally Posted by //M sa

At this point all I can do is hope too lol but I am not holding my breath.

Me three...
I don't know what it is, but some of the pictures (to me) make the M4 seems to have considerable more gap than the M3. I "think" I want an M4, but then I see the stance from certain perspectives and find myself leaning more to the M3 (and I'm a coupe guy). I'm not into the slammed look and I wouldn't consider lowering myself, I just want it to look right straight from the factory. Perhaps since all these cars we have seen are probably loaded with options and include the Adaptive M suspension, that there might still be hope that the passive suspension will lower the gap?

Even when I was at the Philly Auto Show, I commented on the substantial wheel gap on the M4 compared to the M3. But the M4 there might have still had the shipping blocks installed b/c it was that bad (the last 2 AY)! Here's some pics that I think compare the difference in gap:

[aus]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

They make great coils for $25,000 cars. On this $81,000 car I don't think it's an improvement. Or my poor man's $51k S4.

I'd say you're off base when it comes to KW's. KW doesn't make junk. They have the ST-Suspension line for the budget coils.
You can go straight to 5:45 if you don't want to watch two race car drivers hit the ring. But then, what would two race car drivers know about suspensions??

Originally Posted by pkim1079

I thought the kw's that us m3post members all get is at least $3500. And i know some of you have the competition yumminess too. Those arent that cheap. Neither are jrz pros that ppl are running. Where are we getting this $2000 coilover system on an m3 idea?!

I'm not talking specific to M3's. KW was smart in that they didn't make the V2 for the E9x M3, because almost everyone would have bought them instead of the V3 or Clubsports since most just wanted a drop on some coils. The V3's are in the $2,000 range. The ClubSports are in the $3,000 range since they include plates.
The M3 crowd is still very price sensitive compared to the Porsche crowd.

.

[gee-m-w]

This is e90 wheel gap (taken today by me):