European Auto Source (EAS)
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Wheels | Tires -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-30-2019, 11:25 PM   #1
stevehifi
Captain
526
Rep
855
Posts

Drives: 17 F80 M3 ZCP
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Irvine,CA

iTrader: (5)

anyone running M4 GT4 18x11 on all 4 corners?

Anyone running the M4 GT4 18x11 rims on all 4 corners? BMW uses a 25mm
spacer, but do you further need a minimum negative camber to prevent any
rubbing?
Appreciate 0
      07-01-2019, 01:33 AM   #2
F3IGHTY
Lieutenant
F3IGHTY's Avatar
210
Rep
400
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (3)

I am, it’s a lot of work.

The entire front hub assembly is shorter/ closer to the engine as compared to the street car. I have full SPL arms, all shorter than their off the shelf offerings and my GC camber plates are maxed out. For comparison, if I put the stock front 437M wheel on the car with 30mm worth of spacers it’s almost at the same position as a stock F80. Thats the only way to get the wheel to clear, after that you just need a short tire like 295/30, or equivalent slick. I ran the 315/30 r888r for a while but don’t like the pinched feel on an 11” wheel.

Alignment is normal track-like specs. ~7 caster, -3 camber, 0 toe. SAI and scrub radius are a lot higher than normal F8x cars, steering rack programming is important.
Appreciate 1
guess2098515.00
      07-01-2019, 10:54 AM   #3
x.shell
▆ ✚✚   ▆▆▆▆▆▆
x.shell's Avatar
6577
Rep
5,304
Posts

Drives: ▋ ▉▉
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location:  ▆▆▆ ▆▆▆ ▆

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F3IGHTY View Post
I am, it’s a lot of work.

The entire front hub assembly is shorter/ closer to the engine as compared to the street car. I have full SPL arms, all shorter than their off the shelf offerings and my GC camber plates are maxed out. For comparison, if I put the stock front 437M wheel on the car with 30mm worth of spacers it’s almost at the same position as a stock F80. Thats the only way to get the wheel to clear, after that you just need a short tire like 295/30, or equivalent slick. I ran the 315/30 r888r for a while but don’t like the pinched feel on an 11” wheel.

Alignment is normal track-like specs. ~7 caster, -3 camber, 0 toe. SAI and scrub radius are a lot higher than normal F8x cars, steering rack programming is important.
Jeez. Kudos for doing it. That's dedication.

While I was researching this a while back, I found a guy with a black E90 M3 that is running it too.

EDIT: Here is the thread.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23978836



I guess they piggy-backed off my original M4 GT4 wheel thread.
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1413212

Last edited by x.shell; 07-01-2019 at 01:50 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-01-2019, 12:25 PM   #4
stevehifi
Captain
526
Rep
855
Posts

Drives: 17 F80 M3 ZCP
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Irvine,CA

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F3IGHTY View Post
I am, it’s a lot of work.

The entire front hub assembly is shorter/ closer to the engine as compared to the street car. I have full SPL arms, all shorter than their off the shelf offerings and my GC camber plates are maxed out. For comparison, if I put the stock front 437M wheel on the car with 30mm worth of spacers it’s almost at the same position as a stock F80. Thats the only way to get the wheel to clear, after that you just need a short tire like 295/30, or equivalent slick. I ran the 315/30 r888r for a while but don’t like the pinched feel on an 11” wheel.

Alignment is normal track-like specs. ~7 caster, -3 camber, 0 toe. SAI and scrub radius are a lot higher than normal F8x cars, steering rack programming is important.
Thank you for the detailed response. Looks like BMW radically changed the
front track/geometry to make this work on the GT4.
Appreciate 0
      07-03-2019, 02:09 PM   #5
ApexWheels
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
ApexWheels's Avatar
1417
Rep
2,650
Posts


Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (2)

We do have some data on two different 18x11 fitments on the F8x chassis, as noted in our fitment guide:


For most enthusiasts, our common 18x10" ET25 front, 18x11" ET44 rear staggered fitment is most effective for both street and track duty. Pair these with 275/35-18 tires up front and 305-35-18 tires in the rear respectively and you have a great bolt-on fitment. With that said, many of our clients are serious track nuts or compete W2W on some level. Not only are they looking to maximize grip, but they would like a square fitment for a well balanced chassis with the ability to rotate wheels and tires on all four corners.

In order rotate effectively, the wheel specifications needed to be cohesive from front to rear. This means that either the front or rear will need some level of "work" to properly fit an 11" square fitment.

Option 1: Front & Rear: 18x11 ET44
Commonly with 295/30-18 or 305/645-18 tires

The 18x11" ET44 was specifically designed for the rear of the F8X chassis, so naturally this is a direct fit out back. When we install these up front however, thick spacers are required for proper strut clearance. Breizh Motorsport's (more info) chose to go this route, and installed 25mm spacers to clear their KW Competition suspension. Keep in mind, spacer thickness will depend on the front tire brand and suspension type, as not all are created equal. An 11" ET44 wheel paired with a 25mm spacer gives us an effective offset of ET19, so this ends up being quite an aggressive fitment on the outside/fender side and a healthy amount of negative camber will be required to bring the top of the tire in under the front fenders. Since you will (should) only find this type of fitment in the hands of racers, aggressive negative camber specs are par for the course and not a limiting factor.


Option 2: Front & Rear: 18x11 ET25
Commonly with 295/30-18 or 305/645-18 tires

The 18x11" ET25 was specifically designed for the rear of the E9X M3, and in this scenario it is better suited for front end as the lower offset lends itself to more inner strut clearance. Naturally, this transfers the focus to the rear of the car, where the 18x11" ET25 is very aggressive (28mm more aggressive then the factory 19x10" ET40 rear wheels). In effort for these to work when the car is put through its paces on the race track, rear fender modifications will likely need to be performed in the form of "pulling/re-shaping" in combination with additional negative camber. Brett Strom from Strom Motorsports (white M4 pictured above) is well versed in this arena and no stranger to modifying factory fenders, therefore he chose to go this route. In some cases we have reports of customers using this square fitment with 305 tires without needing to modify the rear fenders, however adding -2 degrees or more of camber in the rear was still necessary.


In conclusion, neither of these 11" square fitments are considered "bolt-on fitments" and should be reserved for serious track/race cars. It is important to note that regardless of which offset you choose to use, compliant track oriented suspension equipped with linear springs and a spring perch location above the front tires will be required to maximize inner clearance to the strut.

- Max
__________________

Last edited by ApexWheels; 03-23-2021 at 06:18 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-03-2019, 10:34 PM   #6
stevehifi
Captain
526
Rep
855
Posts

Drives: 17 F80 M3 ZCP
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Irvine,CA

iTrader: (5)

The problem with the 18x10 - 275 tire combo causes a much shorter total wheel/tire diameter than the stock config and will throw off the speedo, rake, and inconsistent with the rear 18x11 -305 wheel/tire diameter. I know a bunch of people run this on the track, but if I was to consider this for the street I'm just wondering if this throws off the whole dynamics of the car.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2019, 09:27 AM   #7
Astro_train
Private
24
Rep
86
Posts

Drives: 19 M4
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: DC Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F3IGHTY View Post
I am, it’s a lot of work.

The entire front hub assembly is shorter/ closer to the engine as compared to the street car. I have full SPL arms, all shorter than their off the shelf offerings and my GC camber plates are maxed out. For comparison, if I put the stock front 437M wheel on the car with 30mm worth of spacers it’s almost at the same position as a stock F80. Thats the only way to get the wheel to clear, after that you just need a short tire like 295/30, or equivalent slick. I ran the 315/30 r888r for a while but don’t like the pinched feel on an 11” wheel.

Alignment is normal track-like specs. ~7 caster, -3 camber, 0 toe. SAI and scrub radius are a lot higher than normal F8x cars, steering rack programming is important.
for a stock M4 with standard brakes (stock shocks with KW HAS KIT), do you know what size of spacer is required to clear the calipers?

I am not looking to track the car just love the look of the wheels and they are a good bargain for the price.

Planning on running a 285/35 or 295/30 tire. I plan on running the necessary camber of course.

Last edited by Astro_train; 07-24-2019 at 09:28 AM.. Reason: added tire sizes
Appreciate 0
      08-09-2019, 10:58 AM   #8
F3IGHTY
Lieutenant
F3IGHTY's Avatar
210
Rep
400
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astro_train View Post
for a stock M4 with standard brakes (stock shocks with KW HAS KIT), do you know what size of spacer is required to clear the calipers?

I am not looking to track the car just love the look of the wheels and they are a good bargain for the price.

Planning on running a 285/35 or 295/30 tire. I plan on running the necessary camber of course.
I assume you meant clear the struts, probably only need around 20-25mm of spacer. But that’s not the problem, without changing anything else the rim will stick out ~2in from the fender, tire size doesn’t matter at that point.
Appreciate 0
      08-09-2019, 12:16 PM   #9
2m3
Private First Class
11
Rep
146
Posts

Drives: 1995 M3, 1988 M3
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: HIllside VIllage, ca 90032

iTrader: (1)

is this wheel looks like 763 that on m3 cs and m4 cs?

On the picture looks similar
Appreciate 0
      08-24-2019, 12:30 AM   #10
x.shell
▆ ✚✚   ▆▆▆▆▆▆
x.shell's Avatar
6577
Rep
5,304
Posts

Drives: ▋ ▉▉
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location:  ▆▆▆ ▆▆▆ ▆

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2m3 View Post
is this wheel looks like 763 that on m3 cs and m4 cs?

On the picture looks similar
Look here.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1413212
Appreciate 0
      12-10-2019, 12:05 AM   #11
jlhymb
Private
44
Rep
80
Posts

Drives: ymb
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: location

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F3IGHTY View Post
I am, it’s a lot of work.

... steering rack programming is important.
Hi F3IGHTY, could you elaborate a bit more on the steering rack programming necessary for this setup, for those of use not in the know.

Thanks!
Appreciate 0
      12-10-2019, 02:12 AM   #12
F3IGHTY
Lieutenant
F3IGHTY's Avatar
210
Rep
400
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhymb View Post
Hi F3IGHTY, could you elaborate a bit more on the steering rack programming necessary for this setup, for those of use not in the know.

Thanks!
It’s not mandatory to reprogram. This setup increased wheel and tire width but at the expense of scrub radius and a bit of caster. The steering effort goes up while the self centering effect goes down. We have a bunch of calibrations available in the EPS SWFL (civic, cs, GTS, etc) and IMO the versions that offer more assist work best with this setup. I’ve yet to find actual GT4 software, but would be interested in trying it.

I’ve settled on running a 295/30 in front to reduce carcass bulge/squirm and prefer it over the 315/30. I’m using the civic EPS calibration currently as well.
Appreciate 1
jlhymb44.00
      01-09-2022, 04:13 PM   #13
JustAnothaM4
Major
JustAnothaM4's Avatar
United_States
875
Rep
1,257
Posts

Drives: 2016 M4 GTS
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cumming, GA

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2016 BMW M4 GTS  [0.00]
What about the correct sized studs? Im pretty sure you need long studs as the wheel hub area is stupid thick along with the spacer required.
__________________
2016 M4 GTS Alpine White
2021 X5M Competition Marina Bay Blue
Instagram: @JustAnothaM4
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2022, 10:28 PM   #14
F3IGHTY
Lieutenant
F3IGHTY's Avatar
210
Rep
400
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (3)

Yup I ran custom studs from MSI. I have a set of 10 new in box for sale.
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2022, 07:09 PM   #15
richlandforged
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
richlandforged's Avatar
426
Rep
227
Posts


Drives: F13 M6, E70 X5d, e46 330ci zhp
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (0)

Our fully forged 18" RF-GT4 wheelset is a designed to fit out of the box as it should, no mods needed, additionally with Track Desired - Knurled Beads build option!

18x9.5 ET+22
18x11 ET+44

https://www.richlandforged.com/produ...-rf-gt4-18-/18
Attached Images
  
__________________
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:30 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST