Another engine oil thread. Castrol Edge/Pennzoil/ Liqui Moly?

[rsyring]

edycol I've been working to compile your recommendations and comments on specific brands and formulations. I have a question on your current perspective of Castrol Edge 0W-40.

Earlier in this thread (last couple years) you highly recommended this oil. However, you more recently expressed concern:

New version of Castrol 0W40 is out. IMO, does not look as good as before.
[Big] increase in pour point=less PAO. As of now PDS has it that it lost Porsche A40 approval (big thing if oil is used on track) and somehow gained LL01.
Jury is out.

So, that kind of pour point difference indicates lower % of PAO and more Group III base stocks. Pour point is really high for 0W40 oil.
If it has now LL01, I would say PAO went from 50% to 25%. Group III base stocks are not oxidizing as much.
For me biggest issue is apparent loss of Porsche A40 approval. I still think it is mistake on PDS as that would be absolutely ridiculous.

I can confirm that, at least on the Walmart website, the 5L label on this oil lists the Porsche A40 approval and also the API SP so we know the label is for the new version. Given that, do you have any further clarity on whether you recommend the new version? And, if you do, has it changed in relation to other oils you recommended like Pennzoil (Quaker State) Euro 5W40 and Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 for street/track use?

Thanks.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by rsyring

edycol I've been working to compile your recommendations and comments on specific brands and formulations. I have a question on your current perspective of Castrol Edge 0W-40.

Earlier in this thread (last couple years) you highly recommended this oil. However, you more recently expressed concern:

I can confirm that, at least on the Walmart website, the 5L label on this oil lists the Porsche A40 approval and also the API SP so we know the label is for the new version. Given that, do you have any further clarity on whether you recommend the new version? And, if you do, has it changed in relation to other oils you recommended like Pennzoil (Quaker State) Euro 5W40 and Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 for street/track use?

Thanks.

First thing first: oil has most important approvals! That means it is good.

But, how good in relation to other oils is still unclear. We need to see some UOA. Shearing, TBN retention, any drop in flash point, TAN etc. I highly doubt Castrol will gamble with their premier product. So, jury is out.

[hori]

Is the pennzoil platinum euro LX better or same as bmw brand 0W30 ?

[hori]

how does this oil compare to others ?

https://klondikelubricants.com/wp-co...ne-Oil-PDS.pdf

[edycol]

Originally Posted by hori

how does this oil compare to others ?

https://klondikelubricants.com/wp-co...ne-Oil-PDS.pdf

Not approved!
I have never heard of this company.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by edycol

Not approved!
I have never heard of this company.

What's the best 10W60 and/or 15W50 you see out there?
I need one recommendation for V8 M3s and one for air cooled flat 6 911s.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

What's the best 10W60 and/or 15W50 you see out there?
I need one recommendation for V8 M3s and one for air cooled flat 6 911s.

We don't have Mobil1 10W60 here. A lot of people use Redline 5W50 in M3 E90. Thing with 10W60 is that it shears down fast to 50. So having stout 5W50 might be better. Redline is excellent, HPL. If want to stick to 10W60, Motul, Castrol or BMW TPT.
15W50? Mobil1!

[edycol]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

What's the best 10W60 and/or 15W50 you see out there?
I need one recommendation for V8 M3s and one for air cooled flat 6 911s.

You can try this in M3.
I can hook you up with person there if you want to talk to them directly:

https://www.advlubrication.com/produ...41318128910529

[gerri]

Good morning edycol, could you tell me what are the differences between these two oils since the specifications on the label are the same? I would like to use it on S55. I currently use the BMW TPT 5W30 and would like to stay with 5WXX or is it better 0W40 Castrol Edge? I read the whole discussion, but when I thought I understood it was not like that. I don't use the car on the track.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by gerri

Good morning edycol, could you tell me what are the differences between these two oils since the specifications on the label are the same? I would like to use it on S55. I currently use the BMW TPT 5W30 and would like to stay with 5WXX or is it better 0W40 Castrol Edge? I read the whole discussion, but when I thought I understood it was not like that. I don't use the car on the track.

Here are the highlights:

KV100 is a bit thinner on gen 2, but HTHS is higher (3.8 vs 3.7). More protection and better fuel economy with Gen 2.

Slightly higher TBN on Gen 2 by 0.1.

Cold pour point is better with Gen 2. This doesn't matter unless you live in freezing climates.

Gen 2 is in essence superior in every way compared to regular xcess.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by gerri

Good morning edycol, could you tell me what are the differences between these two oils since the specifications on the label are the same? I would like to use it on S55. I currently use the BMW TPT 5W30 and would like to stay with 5WXX or is it better 0W40 Castrol Edge? I read the whole discussion, but when I thought I understood it was not like that. I don't use the car on the track.

GEN2 is basically what it says, Generation2 of X-Cess line up. It is current formulation. X-Cess alone is not made anymore. If you find it, it is old stick.
GEN2 has lighter base but higher HTHS. HTHS is only thing that matters. Lower KV100, higher HTHS indicates better base stock.
TPT 5W30 is also good choice. If you are not tracking etc. TPT 5W30 is more than good. Reason is that lighter oil is better for daily use (not too light). Regardless, you will be good with either.

As for Castrol Edge 0W40, it became really hard to find it. Also, Castrol changed formulation and I am bit skeptical about new stuff (API SP).
If you want Castrol, go Castrol Edge 0W30. That is remarkable stuff.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Here are the highlights:

KV100 is a bit thinner on gen 2, but HTHS is higher (3.8 vs 3.7). More protection and better fuel economy with Gen 2.

Slightly higher TBN on Gen 2 by 0.1.

Cold pour point is better with Gen 2. This doesn't matter unless you live in freezing climates.

Gen 2 is in essence superior in every way compared to regular xcess.

Lower pour point doesn't have any practical role. Even in cold environment, oil is pushed by pump, so gravity is of no importance.
But, lower pour point indicates more sophisticated base stock.
In 5W40 grade -39 pour point means strictly Group III stuff. -45, we are talking some mix of Group III, PAO etc., or really good Group III.
0W40, -45 is basically mix of Group III and AN, PAO, and blender managed to get away with it. -60 (Mobil1 0W40, Castrol Edge 0W30, 0W40 (old)) we are talking lots of PAO, possibly some esters.

[TopJimmy]

edycol
We always appreciate you sharing the wisdom. Priceless!!!
-TJ

All Others don't forget that Appreciate button for Edycol if this thread helped you!



[don't appreciate me, I didn't do the work]

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

edycol
We always appreciate you sharing the wisdom. Priceless!!!
-TJ

All Others don't forget that Appreciate button if this thread helped you!

I found this guy on YT who is a tribologist. Seems to be a great up and coming channel to watch if you are interested in motor oil chemistry.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

I found this guy on YT who is a tribologist. Seems to be a great up and coming channel to watch if you are interested in motor oil chemistry.

Bit misleading and missing stuff.
PAO won't give high oxidation value. Ester will. Also, M1 has bunch of AN and GTL. Both PAO and Esters are less than 50%.
He is right on LSPI, but misleading on two points:
1. LSPI happens only in TURBO DI engines not naturally aspirated. Problem is lots of boost at low rpms for protracted period of time. Meaning you are in Eco mode or 6th gear in manual, at 1,300rpms and suddenly want power but you are still in 6th gear or due to calibration of Eco mode or comfort mode there is delay.
2. It happens in engines 2.0ltr or smaller.

What he doesn't mention why Mobil1 0W40 should not be used in DI engines, turbo or not, is TBN value. It is super rich in additives. Sulfated Ash value is at 1.32% which is extremely high, probably highest in ACEA A3 category. Higher Sulfated Ash=more CBU. Newer BMW engines are not affected as much by CBU, but if I owned N54 vehicle, I would avoid this oil like a plague.

Also, FS doesn't stand for "Full Synthetic." There are various speculations what it stands for and closest is "Full SAPS." There are other Mobil1 products with FS designation and are clearly not "true" synthetics.
It is just speculation on his/their part.

[edycol]

By the way, I have no idea what certified tribologist means? Tribology is science of lubrication, but one is chemical engineer or other type of engineer or involved in oil development in some other way. I am not engineer, but I worked on development in other capacity. It is actually not my job for some time.
But, I personally never heard of this title.

[valenciaga_m4]

Here in Germany we run Motul 300V 5W40 or Ravenol RCS 5W40 in tuned S55 engines. On track we use 10W40 or 5W50 / 10W50 oils from the same companies and also from ROWE.
Don‘t know if you have these in the States but in many oil analyses after 5-10k miles these have shown the best engine protection results. For daily driving Shell Helix 5W40 is a good oil aswell.
Especially for top speed runs on the autobahn you need high quality oils with a thick base oil and strong anti-wear additive package like tungsten and/or molybdenum.
We try to avoid longlife oils like the ones from Castrol or the BMW oils as engines that got opened after some intervals seemed to be very dirty inside. But honestly if you change your oil every 5k miles it doesn‘t matter so much which oil you use. Short intervals with a lower quality oil are still better for the engine than a very long interval with a premium oil.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by valenciaga_m4

Here in Germany we run Motul 300V 5W40 or Ravenol RCS 5W40 in tuned S55 engines. On track we use 10W40 or 5W50 / 10W50 oils from the same companies and also from ROWE.
Don‘t know if you have these in the States but in many oil analyses after 5-10k miles these have shown the best engine protection results. For daily driving Shell Helix 5W40 is a good oil aswell.
Especially for top speed runs on the autobahn you need high quality oils with a thick base oil and strong anti-wear additive package like tungsten and/or molybdenum.
We try to avoid longlife oils like the ones from Castrol or the BMW oils as engines that got opened after some intervals seemed to be very dirty inside. But honestly if you change your oil every 5k miles it doesn‘t matter so much which oil you use. Short intervals with a lower quality oil are still better for the engine than a very long interval with a premium oil.

I would not advise using 300V on E85, which is what a lot of people run here in the US.

I sheared and oxidized 300V on E85 only after 1100 miles. 300V is an oil that does not belong on a street car running ethanol.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by valenciaga_m4

Here in Germany we run Motul 300V 5W40 or Ravenol RCS 5W40 in tuned S55 engines. On track we use 10W40 or 5W50 / 10W50 oils from the same companies and also from ROWE.
Don‘t know if you have these in the States but in many oil analyses after 5-10k miles these have shown the best engine protection results. For daily driving Shell Helix 5W40 is a good oil aswell.
Especially for top speed runs on the autobahn you need high quality oils with a thick base oil and strong anti-wear additive package like tungsten and/or molybdenum.
We try to avoid longlife oils like the ones from Castrol or the BMW oils as engines that got opened after some intervals seemed to be very dirty inside. But honestly if you change your oil every 5k miles it doesn‘t matter so much which oil you use. Short intervals with a lower quality oil are still better for the engine than a very long interval with a premium oil.

Any racing oil like 300V is ok if car is used on track a lot. But, if not, LL01 or LL04 is much better choice. For additives in racing oil to do their job one needs very high oil temperatures. But on street, street oil is always better.

[hlm2c]

Originally Posted by rsyring

edycol I've been working to compile your recommendations and comments on specific brands and formulations. I have a question on your current perspective of Castrol Edge 0W-40.

Earlier in this thread (last couple years) you highly recommended this oil. However, you more recently expressed concern:



I can confirm that, at least on the Walmart website, the 5L label on this oil lists the Porsche A40 approval and also the API SP so we know the label is for the new version. Given that, do you have any further clarity on whether you recommend the new version? And, if you do, has it changed in relation to other oils you recommended like Pennzoil (Quaker State) Euro 5W40 and Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 for street/track use?

Thanks.

I bought from Walmart like a week ago. They are still selling the old version, with the API SN/CF and Porsche A40 approval.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by edycol

What he doesn't mention why Mobil1 0W40 should not be used in DI engines, turbo or not, is TBN value. It is super rich in additives. Sulfated Ash value is at 1.32% which is extremely high, probably highest in ACEA A3 category. Higher Sulfated Ash=more CBU. Newer BMW engines are not affected as much by CBU, but if I owned N54 vehicle, I would avoid this oil like a plague.

Also, FS doesn't stand for "Full Synthetic." There are various speculations what it stands for and closest is "Full SAPS." There are other Mobil1 products with FS designation and are clearly not "true" synthetics.
It is just speculation on his/their part.

You are paranoid with the CBU, it was not clear to you that the CBU in the ducts and valves is not formed by higher sulfated ash value....

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

You are paranoid with the CBU, it was not clear to you that the CBU in the ducts and valves is not formed by higher sulfated ash value....

This is like Steve Urkel telling Mr. T that he can't give an ass whippin'.

I pity da fool…