M3CS vs AMG C63S Comparison Test

[TEGRITY]

Another Apple vs Android situation over here....

[adc]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

where did you get the CS tune ? I was thinking of going BM3 but maybe the CS tune is a bit more refined?

BM3 has a CS map, and a CS+ map as part of their free map collection.

[Ghostriderf80]

Originally Posted by adc

BM3 has a CS map, and a CS+ map as part of their free map collection.

Faced w the choices new m3 w big john deer grill. I think I am going with the new Mercedes gtr it's a bit more aggressive and I only need two seats. Kids will have a new g w wife. Gonna make it the original cccp mafia style.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by 535i MSport

Is that so?

Personally, I doubt it, around the Nurburgring, the times I found were;

C63 S Coupe 7:44

M4 7:52

Whilst the same driver as the C63, set a time of 7:36 in an M5 comp and 7:50 in the M3 CSL back in the day.

All were tested by Sport Auto magazine.

Have you actually driven both?

I have. Base M4 and C63 S, both on PSS, totally stock. Much closer than some are suggesting, with both having standout characteristics. M4's front end/turn in, AMG's engine. AMG has better stock brakes (less fade).

CS is on another level, but I found the stock AMG very enjoyable on track.

[classyfast]

Benz looks boring as fuck. M all day

[535i MSport]

Originally Posted by classyfast

Benz looks boring as fuck. M all day

So which one do you prefer? 🥴

[buckybadger]

Benz is boring. The exterior has no character.

[kss]

I hate the C63 sedan, but IMO the coupe is a lot nicer than the M4

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

I have. Base M4 and C63 S, both on PSS, totally stock. Much closer than some are suggesting, with both having standout characteristics. M4's front end/turn in, AMG's engine. AMG has better stock brakes (less fade).

CS is on another level, but I found the stock AMG very enjoyable on track.

I have too and did not particularly like the C63S (I drove a coupe) on track. I found it heavy and bulky. The M4 seems so much more agile and light on its feet in comparison. The C63S I drove was on the iron rotors and I found the brake pedal got long rather quickly, probably due to that extra mass that needs to be hustled down. While the lap time difference is not that far off (less than a second per minute lap), the vast majority of independent tests consistently show the C63S to be slower than the M3/4 around a track.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I have too and did not particularly like the C63S (I drove a coupe) on track. I found it heavy and bulky. The M4 seems so much more agile and light on its feet in comparison. The C63S I drove was on the iron rotors and I found the brake pedal got long rather quickly, probably due to that extra mass that needs to be hustled down. While the lap time difference is not that far off (less than a second per minute lap), the vast majority of independent tests consistently show the C63S to be slower than the M3/4 around a track.

That's interesting. I drove the sedan, standard iron discs as well. Found them notably better than the stock (as in 100% stock) M system. I couldn't get more than a couple of laps from the stock F8X M system without concerning fade.

No doubt the M4 is the better handler. I'm still struck by how strong the turn in and front axle are on the F8X gen. Yes, by comparison you're waiting on the AMG chassis to manage/catch up, but I did really like the stiff damper setting. Didn't strike me as heavy and rolling around. As always, AMG lacks sufficient tire at both axles.

C63S had the Sportster CS style seats, much better than stock M imo. I liked the steering wheel, disliked the paddles -- not enough mechanical movement going on there.

Overall I thought a very strong package, and clear progress for AMG. The closest they've come stock for stock on track with an M3/M4 for sure. And the AMG engine is excellent.

No doubt the M4 will edge it at the limit on almost any track. Short of the limit -- beginner to intermediate DE pace -- I think there's a lot to like there.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

That's interesting. I drove the sedan, standard iron discs as well. Found them notably better than the stock (as in 100% stock) M system. I couldn't get more than a couple of laps from the stock F8X M system without concerning fade.

No doubt the M4 is the better handler. I'm still struck by how strong the turn in and front axle are on the F8X gen. Yes, by comparison you're waiting on the AMG chassis to manage/catch up, but I did really like the stiff damper setting. Didn't strike me as heavy and rolling around. As always, AMG lacks sufficient tire at both axles.

C63S had the Sportster CS style seats, much better than stock M imo. I liked the steering wheel, disliked the paddles -- not enough mechanical movement going on there.

Overall I thought a very strong package, and clear progress for AMG. The closest they've come stock for stock on track with an M3/M4 for sure. And the AMG engine is excellent.

No doubt the M4 will edge it at the limit on almost any track. Short of the limit -- beginner to intermediate DE pace -- I think there's a lot to like there.

Another thing I forgot to mention that really disturbed me on the C63S is the transmission. The one I drove was pre-LCI and still had the 7-AT and it had a very annoying and long power lag on the 3-4 upshift that could unsettle the car.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Another thing I forgot to mention that really disturbed me on the C63S is the transmission. The one I drove was pre-LCI and still had the 7-AT and it had a very annoying and long power lag on the 3-4 upshift that could unsettle the car.

Dissimilar there, too. C63S was the first time that I thought an auto might actually be ok for track purposes. Maximum 2 downshifts in brake zones at my local track, but thought the trans was just fine... Upshifts (using paddles) were on point.

[535i MSport]

Interesting viewing!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 535i MSport

Interesting viewing!

Good video!

[535i MSport]

And that was the pre facelift with the 7 speed auto box.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by 535i MSport

And that was the pre facelift with the 7 speed auto box.

That C63 must have a lot of top end grunt from the big V8!

[535i MSport]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

That C63 must have a lot of top end grunt from the big V8!

510PS isn't to be sneezed at.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I have too and did not particularly like the C63S (I drove a coupe) on track. I found it heavy and bulky. The M4 seems so much more agile and light on its feet in comparison. The C63S I drove was on the iron rotors and I found the brake pedal got long rather quickly, probably due to that extra mass that needs to be hustled down. While the lap time difference is not that far off (less than a second per minute lap), the vast majority of independent tests consistently show the C63S to be slower than the M3/4 around a track.

I’m surprised I’ve never seen you talk about your M4 (either of them) brakes fade. I had it a little bit on my MT ZCP M3 and then really bad on my M4 CS. I’m also on a very tight track and maybe I’ve gotten that much better along with the CS capability over the MT ZCP for faster lap times. I did two laps that crushed my personal best at that track then by lap three they started to fade and I slowed down.......by lap ten 15 minutes into the 20 minute session I had to come to the pits for safety reasons as they faded that bad. You are much faster than me is my guess so hence my surprise at never hearing you talk about it.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by minn19

I’m surprised I’ve never seen you talk about your M4 (either of them) brakes fade. I had it a little bit on my MT ZCP M3 and then really bad on my M4 CS. I’m also on a very tight track and maybe I’ve gotten that much better along with the CS capability over the MT ZCP for faster lap times. I did two laps that crushed my personal best at that track then by lap three they started to fade and I slowed down.......by lap ten 15 minutes into the 20 minute session I had to come to the pits for safety reasons as they faded that bad. You are much faster than me is my guess so hence my surprise at never hearing you talk about it.

Well that's because I never had issues with thr brakes on my two M4s (except for the few recent delaminations events with the RSL29 pads). I even use the stock fluid, flushed once a year. It might be a question of driving style and/or the track I frequent (LCMT, CMP, WGI, Mosport, ASE and Sanair). Some are high speed and others are tighter and more technical, but I never encountered a serious brake fade issue. And I am not known to be light on the brakes, experienced trackers that have ridden with me have all been impressed by how well the M4 brakes. The pedal gets a bit longer when the brakes are hot with the stock fluid, but there is no loss of braking power. I even tracked with the stock pads on a few occasions and found they performed very decently with me running laps just a few tenths off my personal best. The caveat, is that I wore down a brand new set of stock pads in less than one track day.

[adc]

Originally Posted by minn19

I’m surprised I’ve never seen you talk about your M4 (either of them) brakes fade. I had it a little bit on my MT ZCP M3 and then really bad on my M4 CS. I’m also on a very tight track and maybe I’ve gotten that much better along with the CS capability over the MT ZCP for faster lap times. I did two laps that crushed my personal best at that track then by lap three they started to fade and I slowed down.......by lap ten 15 minutes into the 20 minute session I had to come to the pits for safety reasons as they faded that bad. You are much faster than me is my guess so hence my surprise at never hearing you talk about it.

I'm tracking PFC08 having switched over from RS29. I like the PFCs much better than the Pagids, and never had serious fade on track. If anything, after a few full on laps it's the tires giving up first, not necessarily the brakes. Using the brakes less makes you faster.

That said, my shop tells me to throw a suspension at the car, RE71R tires and Essex front brakes. They are saying this combo is a good 3-5 seconds faster at a track like VIR than my current setup.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by adc

I'm tracking PFC08 having switched over from RS29. I like the PFCs much better than the Pagids, and never had serious fade on track. If anything, after a few full on laps it's the tires giving up first, not necessarily the brakes. Using the brakes less makes you faster.

That said, my shop tells me to throw a suspension at the car, RE71R tires and Essex front brakes. They are saying this combo is a good 3-5 seconds faster at a track like VIR than my current setup.

I’ve never liked any of my M cars brake feel. I’ve always felt they were too squishy and I was going to do the AP/Essex front brake upgrade. Then BMW NA made me take the HAS suspension off. So I was looking at quite a few dollars to get it where I liked it and most likely voiding the warranty on a leased car with upgrading the suspension/brakes. Add in the bad taste left over from my numerous discussions with BMWNA about the subject, I obviously decided on going a different direction.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by minn19

I've never liked any of my M cars brake feel. I've always felt they were too squishy and I was going to do the AP/Essex front brake upgrade. Then BMW NA made me take the HAS suspension off. So I was looking at quite a few dollars to get it where I liked it and most likely voiding the warranty on a leased car with upgrading the suspension/brakes. Add in the bad taste left over from my numerous discussions with BMWNA about the subject, I obviously decided on going a different direction.

Why did BMW make you remove the HAS?