YAOT - Yet Another Oil Thread

[SE7EN335]

Ive used Valvoline Synpower 0w40 and Redline 0w40. Valvoline 0w40 heats up in the M3 a lot quicker than the redline 0w40. But the redline 0w40 keeps oil temps cooler in efficient and sports mode compared with the Valvoline 0w40. A classic example is when I would thrash the car then I would come to a dead stop and the auto start stop turns the car off and I would see that when its using Valvoline 0w40, as soon as it turns off, the oil temp rises noticeably to almost half way on the oil temp gauge. For the redline 0w40, the oil temp would stabilises and the oil temp needle does not move (very barely noticeable). For this reason, I can see that the redline 0w40 can handle high temps a lot better whereas Valvoline 0w40 is better for daily street driving because the oil temp heats up a lot quicker so you can get it up to operating temp ASAP to avoid engine wear.

Valvoline 0w40 still have the BMW LL-01, Porsche A40 and Merc 229.5 factory approvals so it's a very good oil.

Redline 0w40 doesn't have any.

[F32Fleet]

Acceptable oils for S55:

LL01/LL01FE

LL04/LL12FE


https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...l-note/1PSryV8


For a 5k mile oil change you can use LL04/12FE. The US moved to ULSG a year ago.

[calubi]

For colder winter climates (20-30 F on average during the day), is there an advantage to running a 0wXX vs a 5wXX oil in the S55? Or does it not really matter?

[Ropes]

The first number is for when the oil is cold so the lower number would be better for the cold

[noone]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Acceptable oils for S55:

LL01/LL01FE

LL04/LL12FE


https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...l-note/1PSryV8


For a 5k mile oil change you can use LL04/12FE. The US moved to ULSG a year ago.

Regarding LL04 which seems to be for
Diesel engines - X
1) For petrol engines, only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW Longlife-12 FE oils are permitted in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by noone

Regarding LL04 which seems to be for
Diesel engines - X
1) For petrol engines, only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW Longlife-12 FE oils are permitted in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.

LL-12FE can be purchased in US. Sold as 0W30 Twin Power Turbo.
I bought a case online thinking it was oil for my M. Shipping cost to return would be same or more that what I paid so... my loss.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by noone

Regarding LL04 which seems to be for
Diesel engines - X
1) For petrol engines, only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW Longlife-12 FE oils are permitted in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.

Correct!


That was because W. Europe moved to ULSG. The US did in January last year. Keep in mind BMW is also thinking on terms of the full 10k mile interval. The OP is doing a 5k mile interval.

Of course it doesn't help that BMW moved to FE oils about 6 yrs ago and they've been silent about updating their specs with the change in sulphur levels of US gas.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by calubi

For colder winter climates (20-30 F on average during the day), is there an advantage to running a 0wXX vs a 5wXX oil in the S55? Or does it not really matter?

Doesn't really matter, both will work just fine and lubricate your engine properly.

[jd__m4]

Personally, I use the Mann HU8011Z filter (comes with the two o-rings and crush washer) and Castrol Edge 5w30 A3/B4. The bottles I recently got from Amazon still have the LL-01 cert listed.

[SE7EN335]

Originally Posted by eyeamgrewt

Personally, I use the Mann HU8011Z filter (comes with the two o-rings and crush washer) and Castrol Edge 5w30 A3/B4. The bottles I recently got from Amazon still have the LL-01 cert listed.

I personally would not use 5w30 in our s55 engines. Castrol 5w30 is more prone to heat sheer than 0w40 and 5w40

[noone]

Seems like final consensus from where I sit is Castrol Euro 0W-40 or BMW 0W-30.

The Mann OEM filter can be bought for $7.30 from FCP Euro. $49 min order for free shipping. I'm getting ready to buy 7 of them.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by noone

Seems like final consensus from where I sit is Castrol Euro 0W-40 or BMW 0W-30.

The Mann OEM filter can be bought for $7.30 from FCP Euro. $49 min order for free shipping. I'm getting ready to buy 7 of them.

I would also add BMW M 0W-40 to that list (if you can find it, which is not impossible yet).

[calubi]

Originally Posted by noone

Seems like final consensus from where I sit is Castrol Euro 0W-40 or BMW 0W-30.

The Mann OEM filter can be bought for $7.30 from FCP Euro. $49 min order for free shipping. I'm getting ready to buy 7 of them.

Is Castrol Euro 0w40 the same as Castrol Edge 0w40? Or are you referring to a different oil?

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by calubi

Is Castrol Euro 0w40 the same as Castrol Edge 0w40? Or are you referring to a different oil?

Yes they are the same. The Edge 0w40 is their "European car formula"

[Insane_Dawe]

LL01 is not what end all be all. Castrol Edge 0W-40 A3/B4 USED to be LL01, it is not anymore. The engine in my car hasn't changed and the oil specs likely haven't changed otherwise they would have to go through approval again from Porsche/VW/MB. So why is it no longer LL01?

Simple, BMW still recommends LL01 in their new vehicles. Oil can have a drastic effect on emissions so BMW find an oil that helps them stay within emissions requirements and that can handle the engine wear requirements. If the "old" oil (Castrol Edge) doesn't pass these test, remove their LL01 certification instead of what VW does, change the spec a.k.a. VW 502.0 vs VW 508.0 etc.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Insane_Dawe

LL01 is not what end all be all. Castrol Edge 0W-40 A3/B4 USED to be LL01, it is not anymore. The engine in my car hasn't changed and the oil specs likely haven't changed otherwise they would have to go through approval again from Porsche/VW/MB. So why is it no longer LL01?

Simple, BMW still recommends LL01 in their new vehicles. Oil can have a drastic effect on emissions so BMW find an oil that helps them stay within emissions requirements and that can handle the engine wear requirements. If the "old" oil (Castrol Edge) doesn't pass these test, remove their LL01 certification instead of what VW does, change the spec a.k.a. VW 502.0 vs VW 508.0 etc.

I am not aware of BMW still recommending LL01 spec for their new cars. I believe all new cars are recommended for LL01FE or newer specs.

No one really knows why Castrol 0w40 no longer carries the LL01 approval (and M1 0w40 dropped the LL01 approval a short while before Castrol). That said, I still personally feel comfortable using Castrol 0w40 in an LL01 application.

[SE7EN335]

Just use an oil that still has LL01 approval certifications like Valvoline synpower 0w40. There is no way in hell BMW will void your warranty if you used valvoline synpower 0w40 when it has approval certifications from BMW.

[JeffO]

Originally Posted by eyeamgrewt

Personally, I use the Mann HU8011Z filter (comes with the two o-rings and crush washer) and Castrol Edge 5w30 A3/B4. The bottles I recently got from Amazon still have the LL-01 cert listed.

I believe the Mann filter is the same as the BMW factory filter. However if your car is in BMW warranty I would change the filter with genuine filter. Once my car is out of warranty I will use Mann. I also found genuine BMW filters for a good price on ebay.
For oil I prefer 5w-40, for smoothness and quiet of the engine. Compare factory oil at 4k miles then a good 5w-40, and see which suites you. For my usage and oil analysis the 5w-40 works for me. I use Redline or Motul in all my cars right now. I used to use 0w-30 Castrol but the old blend is hard to find and the new 0w-40 Castrol euro from Wal-mart doesn't seem as good from my unscientific evaluations. Motul 8100 X-cess has all certifications and can be bought in 5L jugs on Amazon for about the same price.
If you want an aftermarket Shell oil, I would suggest the 5w-40 euro Pennzoil as the best alternate but also hard to find. The bottles I had were with Ferrari logo, so should be a very good oil. A far as I could determine a BMW 0w-30 FE (ACEA B5 oil) equivalent is not sold by Pennzoil. I don't use Lubri-moly oil, but I have seen very good oil analysis from a friends M2.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

I don't know the rhyme or reason for BMW recommending a specific grade under the hood, they have always done that. But usually the most important thing is the spec/approval (ie LL01, LL01FE, etc). LL01 for example can be found in a variety of grades from 0w30 to 5w40 and everything in between. But to carry the LL01 approval it must meet certain minimum requirements which are more focused on the technical aspects of the oil rather simply the viscosity grade. So viscosity grade becomes somewhat irrelevant as there isn't much difference between a 0w30 and 0w40 LL01 oil for example.

As for Castrol 0w40, I use it because it has been somewhat of the "gold standard" of euro oils for many years. As I mentioned before it carried LL01 up until recently (still unclear why it no longer carries the approval) and every other major German approval. It has years of used oil analysis postings online in a variety of engines and operating conditions which prove it protects the engine well. Also, it's inexpensive ($25 or so for a 5qt jug at Walmart or amazon) and readily available.

Also for filters I always use oem (usually order them off eBay). Mann and mahle should be absolutely fine though and come with whatever gaskets and washers are needed.

You'll see the majority of API SN / SN+ oils are losing LL-01 / LL-04 approval especially the ones that are being reformulated to meet SN+, SN + Resource Conserving, and ILSAC GF-5. My opinion after researching this topic is the new oils are not able to hold up to the 15,000 mile oil change intervals that the previous formulations had to withstand in order to be LL-01 or LL-04 approved. Remember that BMW in those days was recommending 15,000 mile oil changes for all their gas-powered cars so any oil that gets their stamp of approval has to hold up reasonably well, provide above a minimum level of wear protection, stay above SAE 30 grade, etc. for all that time.

Mobil 1 is a good example because my shop used to use so much of their 0w-40 that we bought it by the drum, when it was reformulated a couple years ago they lost BMW LL-01 and also the recommendation from Nissan for the GTR. Around that same time, I noticed their new formula burns off more and requires more frequent top-offs between oil changes in my customers' cars so we've since switched to a couple different oils that we use depending on the type of car.

API SM (2005) and SN (2010) and ILSAC GF-5 are trading long term wear protection for emissions system compatibility (longer O2 sensor and catalytic converter life, mainly) so they first restricted the amount of phosphorus that was allowed to be in oils and I believe API SN brought with it increased calcium as a substitute anti-wear additive but calcium is now being removed with SN+ because we saw it causing low speed pre-ignition misfire issues in the new turbo + direct injection motors. Now we have oils with reduced phosphorus, nearly no calcium, and zinc that is nearly worthless without phosphorus to bind to it (Zinc and Phosphorus make up the Z and P in ZDDP) so it's no surprise that BMW had to reduce their oil change recommendations down to 10,000 miles and is also having to not certify the new compliant versions of oils to the old LL-01 and LL-04 spec since they cannot protect the engine for that long.

LSPI is a real issue, my wife's new Volvo ran noticeably rough during gentle acceleration on the factory oil and is butter-smooth since I switched to a different oil but the S55 is not prone to this and you'll definitely want to use an engine oil that's primary goal is to protect the engine internals over extending the life of emissions equipment IMO.

[ttrank]

Originally Posted by Remonster

You'll see the majority of API SN / SN+ oils are losing LL-01 / LL-04 approval especially the ones that are being reformulated to meet SN+, SN + Resource Conserving, and ILSAC GF-5. My opinion after researching this topic is the new oils are not able to hold up to the 15,000 mile oil change intervals that the previous formulations had to withstand in order to be LL-01 or LL-04 approved. Remember that BMW in those days was recommending 15,000 mile oil changes for all their gas-powered cars so any oil that gets their stamp of approval has to hold up reasonably well, provide above a minimum level of wear protection, stay above SAE 30 grade, etc. for all that time.

Mobil 1 is a good example because my shop used to use so much of their 0w-40 that we bought it by the drum, when it was reformulated a couple years ago they lost BMW LL-01 and also the recommendation from Nissan for the GTR. Around that same time, I noticed their new formula burns off more and requires more frequent top-offs between oil changes in my customers' cars so we've since switched to a couple different oils that we use depending on the type of car.

API SM (2005) and SN (2010) and ILSAC GF-5 are trading long term wear protection for emissions system compatibility (longer O2 sensor and catalytic converter life, mainly) so they first restricted the amount of phosphorus that was allowed to be in oils and I believe API SN brought with it increased calcium as a substitute anti-wear additive but calcium is now being removed with SN+ because we saw it causing low speed pre-ignition misfire issues in the new turbo + direct injection motors. Now we have oils with reduced phosphorus, nearly no calcium, and zinc that is nearly worthless without phosphorus to bind to it (Zinc and Phosphorus make up the Z and P in ZDDP) so it's no surprise that BMW had to reduce their oil change recommendations down to 10,000 miles and is also having to not certify the new compliant versions of oils to the old LL-01 and LL-04 spec since they cannot protect the engine for that long.

LSPI is a real issue, my wife's new Volvo ran noticeably rough during gentle acceleration on the factory oil and is butter-smooth since I switched to a different oil but the S55 is not prone to this and you'll definitely want to use an engine oil that's primary goal is to protect the engine internals over extending the life of emissions equipment IMO.

Great and very helpful information. Thank you and the many other contributors for all the time you spent on these posts. As a newer M3 owner, I appreciate the help.

[N44RP]

Originally Posted by Remonster

You'll see the majority of API SN / SN+ oils are losing LL-01 / LL-04 approval especially the ones that are being reformulated to meet SN+, SN + Resource Conserving, and ILSAC GF-5. My opinion after researching this topic is the new oils are not able to hold up to the 15,000 mile oil change intervals that the previous formulations had to withstand in order to be LL-01 or LL-04 approved. Remember that BMW in those days was recommending 15,000 mile oil changes for all their gas-powered cars so any oil that gets their stamp of approval has to hold up reasonably well, provide above a minimum level of wear protection, stay above SAE 30 grade, etc. for all that time.

Mobil 1 is a good example because my shop used to use so much of their 0w-40 that we bought it by the drum, when it was reformulated a couple years ago they lost BMW LL-01 and also the recommendation from Nissan for the GTR. Around that same time, I noticed their new formula burns off more and requires more frequent top-offs between oil changes in my customers' cars so we've since switched to a couple different oils that we use depending on the type of car.

API SM (2005) and SN (2010) and ILSAC GF-5 are trading long term wear protection for emissions system compatibility (longer O2 sensor and catalytic converter life, mainly) so they first restricted the amount of phosphorus that was allowed to be in oils and I believe API SN brought with it increased calcium as a substitute anti-wear additive but calcium is now being removed with SN+ because we saw it causing low speed pre-ignition misfire issues in the new turbo + direct injection motors. Now we have oils with reduced phosphorus, nearly no calcium, and zinc that is nearly worthless without phosphorus to bind to it (Zinc and Phosphorus make up the Z and P in ZDDP) so it's no surprise that BMW had to reduce their oil change recommendations down to 10,000 miles and is also having to not certify the new compliant versions of oils to the old LL-01 and LL-04 spec since they cannot protect the engine for that long.

LSPI is a real issue, my wife's new Volvo ran noticeably rough during gentle acceleration on the factory oil and is butter-smooth since I switched to a different oil but the S55 is not prone to this and you'll definitely want to use an engine oil that's primary goal is to protect the engine internals over extending the life of emissions equipment IMO.

So what oil and weight do you recommend?

[ONEof500]

Motul Xcess Gen2 and be done. I am in SoCal and 5w40 has been fine.