Mid-pipe? A must when going DP + Tune or its not a huge power gainer?

[SanchoDivine]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Minimal if any at all, not enough to show on the dyno. Secondary cats aren't really that restrictive until pushing higher boost levels (ie: Stage 2 turbos).

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that the secondary cats after the turbo don't affect the exhaust before the turbo. This is essentially claiming that going with a catless midpipe and using catted downpipes that have the same rating as the OEM secondary cats will enable the exact same gains possible with completely catless exhaust without higher risk to the engine.

I'm no expert but it would seem logical that catless downpipe benefits would be limited to what follows. Why would anyone go catless other than to make the car louder?

[AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by r0wr

Send me the mid pipe and I'll do it at AutoTalent. Get this argument answered with some real data.

No need. I keep them in stock

[dpgfunk]

Originally Posted by AutoTalent

No need. I keep them in stock

Let me know when it goes down so I can bear witness to the magic of the midpipe....oh, and pick up my stock midpipe too

[JibSTir13]

Looking forward to the dyno graphs!

Thanks for stepping up AutoTalent.

[NoMoreAudi]

Hello all. I don't care about the power as long as I don't lose it from getting the midpipe.

My ZCP is bone stock. All I want is a midpipe.... which one should I get?

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by NoMoreAudi

Hello all. I don't care about the power as long as I don't lose it from getting the midpipe.

My ZCP is bone stock. All I want is a midpipe.... which one should I get?

AA if you knew what was good for you. Screw the power from mid pipe. Rasp eliminated. Much better.

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by NoMoreAudi

Hello all. I don't care about the power as long as I don't lose it from getting the midpipe.

My ZCP is bone stock. All I want is a midpipe.... which one should I get?

This is exactly how I feel about the AA midpipe. Don't care about power gains, just don't want any power loss.

I am happy with the sound, especially after adding a VSC-2 valve controller.

Having said that, I look forward to what the independent, third-party dyno results show.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by NoMoreAudi

Hello all. I don't care about the power as long as I don't lose it from getting the midpipe.

My ZCP is bone stock. All I want is a midpipe.... which one should I get?

Depends on the sound you are after.

For a clean rasp free sound Active Autowerke is the way to go.

If you are looking for a more aggressive tone, VRSF or REMUS

[AutoTalent]

I have heard almost every midpipe combo available for this chassis and AA is second to none. I would not add downpipes either. A midpipe is an amazing stand alone mod for sound and you can add a rear section to complete it (Remus gets my vote).

[NoMoreAudi]

Originally Posted by AutoTalent

I have heard almost every midpipe combo available for this chassis and AA is second to none. I would not add downpipes either. A midpipe is an amazing stand alone mod for sound and you can add a rear section to complete it (Remus gets my vote).

First off, thanks for the feedback everyone.

Does ZCP sound different with midpipe than a non ZCP? Something about the cracks/pops/burbles?

[F82K2S0]

I did the catless gintani downpipe first, then later did the AA midpipe, all along with Dinan axle back from day one.
The midpipe was the item that really put a smile on my face not the DP or the Dinan axle back.
If I was to start over I would probably do the AA midpipe first and consider leaving the DP OEM catted

Dinan axle back retained the electric valves for sport/sport+ open, along with black tips I prefer on my MG

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Midpipes offer zero gains, just sound and marketing. Stock exhaust is very efficient.

Can you please post dyno evidence to support this opinion which you state as fact ?

[MikeeM3]

Originally Posted by F82K2S0

If I was to start over I would probably do the AA midpipe first and consider leaving the DP OEM catted

Why leave the DP stock? Thats like wasting 50-60hp

[MrSmartyPants]

Originally Posted by JibSTir13

This is exactly how I feel about the AA midpipe. Don't care about power gains, just don't want any power loss.

I am happy with the sound, especially after adding a VSC-2 valve controller.

Having said that, I look forward to what the independent, third-party dyno results show.

Agreed, this is a great setup, at least for sound. AA midpipe + CG Precision VSC-2. Loud enough but not obnoxious. Hearing every downshift with the valves open makes me smile. Don't get the no cat gas fumes either. Best of all very low on the ///M tax scale.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by drgmt

Can you please post dyno evidence to support this opinion which you state as fact ?

There's nothing to see. The runfiles simply overlap one another.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

There's nothing to see. The runfiles simply overlap one another.

Post them anyway.

If you are going to indirectly claim that vendors are making up data - show us your data.

A stock car dyno run followed by a midpipe install dyno run with nothing changed. The curves should be superimposed if you are correct.

If you have no such data then your posts are merely an opinion.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by drgmt

Post them anyway.

If you are going to indirectly claim that vendors are making up data - show us your data.

A stock car dyno run followed by a midpipe install dyno run with nothing changed. The curves should be superimposed if you are correct.

If you have no such data then your posts are merely an opinion.

No point. If you don't believe me, there are other vendors more than happy to take your money.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

No point. If you don't believe me, there are other vendors more than happy to take your money.

So they provide data. You provide your words. And it's your word over their data?

It leads me to believe that you are providing an opinion rather than fact but stating it as fact.

Thanks for clarifying.

[M3anPower]

Why you guys are arguing about hp gains? The car is not fast enough from factory? Beside, the "gains" that you might get from midpipe won't be noticeable and won't make your car like a rocket.

I personally have full Akrapovič exhaust with downpipes and I'm happy with the sound and quality. if I want to make power, I could have spent the money of Akrapovič on pureturbos and beat the hell out of supercars.

Relax and enjoy your cars. 5-10 HP won't change the world.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by ///M1990

Why you guys are arguing about hp gains? The car is not fast enough from factory? Beside, the "gains" that you might get from midpipe won't be noticeable and won't make your car like a rocket.

I personally have full Akrapovi� exhaust with downpipes and I'm happy with the sound and quality. if I want to make power, I could have spent the money of Akrapovi� on pureturbos and beat the hell out of supercars.

Relax and enjoy your cars. 5-10 HP won't change the world.

I'm not to concerned about gains. I did it for noise.

But people make statements saying it's fact without any proof. That's my point.

If someone is saying there are no gains prove it with a dyno run.

[Justin.AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by drgmt

I'm not to concerned about gains. I did it for noise.

But people make statements saying it's fact without any proof. That's my point.

If someone is saying there are no gains prove it with a dyno run.

I just put AA mid pipe. My car is tuned with bootmod, I'm more than happy to put my car on the dyno to provide before and after graphs.

I have a baseline for my car before any mods were done

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by ///M1990

Why you guys are arguing about hp gains? The car is not fast enough from factory? Beside, the "gains" that you might get from midpipe won't be noticeable and won't make your car like a rocket.

I personally have full Akrapovič exhaust with downpipes and I'm happy with the sound and quality. if I want to make power, I could have spent the money of Akrapovič on pureturbos and beat the hell out of supercars.

Relax and enjoy your cars. 5-10 HP won't change the world.

Nice exhaust, but I think you missed the point by a mile here.

The debate isn't about 5-10hp gain, and whether that is going to make a difference, or even be noticeable at all. It's about a shop owner based in SoCal claiming absolutely ZERO power gain with ANY midpipe solution, all while refusing to provide supporting data. On the other hand, Active Autowerke completely opposes the shop owner's claim by providing their own dyno graph signifying a pretty reasonable amount of power increase.

To summarize:

* Shop owner boldly claims ZERO power gain with ANY midpipe solution, but refuses to provide supporting evidence.

* Active Autowerke disagrees, and shares their dyno graph showing power increase with their midpipe.

* An offer is on the table for anyone willing to volunteer to do a before and after dyno between the stock exhaust and AA midpipe: AutoTalent will conduct the dyno at no charge, and AA to offer a discount on the midpipe.