Mid-pipe? A must when going DP + Tune or its not a huge power gainer?

[CPWINCH]

The gains are so minimal that I would agree with Tom is saying they add no gains. Downpipes are the only way to go. I have a full cat back exhaust that deletes the second cats and it did nothing but sound good. The little bit of extra breath is minimal but it’s something.

If you want a mid pipe, don’t expect noticeable gains. But the positive is the car will breath slightly better and sound great. Everyone in this thread is a noob. Deleting secondary cats isn’t a big deal. Going off on that, I would go completely catless if pushing big power, but if you leave the secondaries you will never ever notice ever.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by nars3000

Nice exhaust, but I think you missed the point by a mile here.

The debate isn't about 5-10hp gain, and whether that is going to make a difference, or even be noticeable at all. It's about a shop owner based in SoCal claiming absolutely ZERO power gain with ANY midpipe solution, all while refusing to provide supporting data. On the other hand, Active Autowerke completely opposes the shop owner's claim by providing their own dyno graph signifying a pretty reasonable amount of power increase.

To summarize:

* Shop owner boldly claims ZERO power gain with ANY midpipe solution, but refuses to provide supporting evidence.

* Active Autowerke disagrees, and shares their dyno graph showing power increase with their midpipe.

* An offer is on the table for anyone willing to volunteer to do a before and after dyno between the stock exhaust and AA midpipe: AutoTalent will conduct the dyno at no charge, and AA to offer a discount on the midpipe.

Well said.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

The gains are so minimal that I would agree with Tom is saying they add no gains. Downpipes are the only way to go. I have a full cat back exhaust that deletes the second cats and it did nothing but sound good. The little bit of extra breath is minimal but it’s something.

If you want a mid pipe, don’t expect noticeable gains. But the positive is the car will breath slightly better and sound great. Everyone in this thread is a noob. Deleting secondary cats isn’t a big deal. Going off on that, I would go completely catless if pushing big power, but if you leave the secondaries you will never ever notice ever.

Whether Tom is right or not isn't the issue.

Show evidence of the opinion instead of stating it as a fact.

He can't provide a single dyno graph to back up the opinion. Unlike vendors such as AA which provide dyno data showing gains.

[prodigymb]

send midpipe - i can test before and after

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

[JibSTir13]

Another thing to consider is whether the car is boosting above factory specs immediately after the mid-pipe is swapped.

If so, then the car may eventually adjust accordingly to reach target boost levels, meaning that although an initial dyno graph may show power gains, a dyno graph after the car has adjusted may no longer show such gains.

Not trying to disprove anything, this is just a thought that I suddenly remembered. I believe this has been mentioned before in other threads. Again, I don't care if the mid-pipe offers gains so long as there is no loss.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by JibSTir13

Another thing to consider is whether the car is boosting above factory specs immediately after the mid-pipe is swapped.

If so, then the car may eventually adjust accordingly to reach target boost levels, meaning that although an initial dyno graph may show power gains, a dyno graph after the car has adjusted may no longer show such gains.

Not trying to disprove anything, this is just a thought that I suddenly remembered. I believe this has been mentioned before in other threads. Again, I don't care if the mid-pipe offers gains so long as there is no loss.

There would be two ways to look at it. In an ideal world you tune for power with any modification change.

If you want to look at a controlled test, you'd try to at least keep everything else equal to find the gain/loss.

Playing with the stock ECU and waiting for adaptions may be counterproductive as you suggested while the ECU wants to maintain "stock power" through load target.

If people are really suggesting that you install mods without tuning and want to "find gains" they are setting themselves up for failure/disappointment with a car that is otherwise on stock ECU tuning that is trying to target load and therefore ~ same power as stock.

However, efficiency can be found through WGDC changes.

With any turbo charged platform, opening up the exhaust will have potential gains.

[drgmt]

It's purely speculative as to whether a stock ECU can or will adapt to any change down stream particularly in the vicinity of the secondary cats which is are otherwise not monitored by the ecu. There are also many factors that would determine what if any ecu response would occur.

In many ways though it misses the point. The reasoning as to why there may or may not be gains is a different issue.

Ideally a stock run with and without midpipe vs a stage 1 tune with and without midpipe would suffice to answer the questions most customers would be asking.

[mystermykee]

Anyone running a catted mid pipe? I have catless DPs but would like to run an AWE exhaust but don't want to go full catless cause of the smell.

[SflBimmer8484]

Originally Posted by JibSTir13

Another thing to consider is whether the car is boosting above factory specs immediately after the mid-pipe is swapped.

If so, then the car may eventually adjust accordingly to reach target boost levels, meaning that although an initial dyno graph may show power gains, a dyno graph after the car has adjusted may no longer show such gains.

Not trying to disprove anything, this is just a thought that I suddenly remembered. I believe this has been mentioned before in other threads. Again, I don't care if the mid-pipe offers gains so long as there is no loss.

Also note whether the car is being run on a non loaded dyno. Example.... My car ran 20 psi when we turned off the load (dyno jet mode) and 24 psi when we turned the load back on our mustang. These cars react immediately to these load changes.

Originally Posted by mystermykee

Anyone running a catted mid pipe? I have catless DPs but would like to run an AWE exhaust but don't want to go full catless cause of the smell.

Im running a high flow catted mid-pipe with our Single 3.5 inch exhaust.

[F82_Bavaria]

Hi, i am not interested in any HP gains

But i want a good exhaust tone / note.

I run an complete stock M4 (9/2015) and i installed the exhaust valve controller . That controller really changes the complete exhaust for only 100 bucks.

Now i got a stock midpipe and i want to open it and change the pipes in it.
But i do not know, if i should go straight, X or H )

I only want the best sound. I have to use the stock midpipe and change it, because from the outside it has to look 100% stock because of the german TÜV.

best regards from Munich/Bavaria

[SflBimmer8484]

Originally Posted by F82_Bavaria

Hi, i am not interested in any HP gains

But i want a good exhaust tone / note.

I run an complete stock M4 (9/2015) and i installed the exhaust valve controller . That controller really changes the complete exhaust for only 100 bucks.

Now i got a stock midpipe and i want to open it and change the pipes in it.
But i do not know, if i should go straight, X or H )

I only want the best sound. I have to use the stock midpipe and change it, because from the outside it has to look 100% stock because of the german TÜV.

best regards from Munich/Bavaria

You want to go single.

Side note: We just hit 400 mid pipes sold today !

Edit 1000 SOLD!

[AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

You want to go single.

Side note: We just hit 400 mid pipes sold today !

Since launch?

[SflBimmer8484]

Originally Posted by AutoTalent

Since launch?

Yep. Maybe a little more before I started keeping track but 400+

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

You want to go single.

Side note: We just hit 400 mid pipes sold today !

How can he go single if it has to maintain a pure stock appearance to pass TUV ?

[David@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

Yep. Maybe a little more before I started keeping track but 400+

We're actually over 1000 since the product launch, 400 since the latest revision with the updated serial numbers

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by David@ActiveAutowerke

We're actually over 1000 since the product launch, 400 since the latest revision with the updated serial numbers

Congrats!

[MikeeM3]

1 000 000$+ in probably 3yrs of selling the mid-pipe... not bad at all

[PeterPure]

I have a few coming my way in belgium for distribution in EU

[SO17]

Originally Posted by Darkiedm4

I have a few coming my way in belgium for distribution in EU

Will these bolt straight to the stock muffler or is an adapter needed ?

[David@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by SO17

Will these bolt straight to the stock muffler or is an adapter needed ?

The stock exhaust from the downpipe back is a single piece. To install our mid pipe, you cut the stock muffler and install our mid pipe using clamps to the stock muffler.

[PeterPure]

Originally Posted by SO17

Will these bolt straight to the stock muffler or is an adapter needed ?

Yup fits fine with stock muffler.