What to do if car loses control?

[ccondo]

Does anyone know of any videos or good info about how to regain control of a car in various situations?

Any advice and info is appreciated.

[CanAutM3]

Well, the car never ever "loses control"

Only the driver does...

[///Mongo]

Attend an HPDE event

[ccondo]

Originally Posted by ///Mongo

Attend an HPDE event

I have done probably 30 days of hpde but drive with mdm on. Not interested in turning it off until I learn more about how to make corrections.

[///Mongo]

Do yourself a favor and turn DSC off. MDM is way too intrusive at the track.

Also, how are you going to learn how to make corrections if the car is always correcting for you? :

[ccondo]

Originally Posted by ///Mongo

Do yourself a favor and turn DSC off. MDM is way too intrusive at the track.

Also, how are you going to learn how to make corrections if the car is always correcting for you? :

I will turn it off eventually. That is why I started this thread. Would rather be armed with as much info as possible if I find my car pointed at a wall.

[w00tw00t]

ccondo sounds like you'e brand new to high perf driving on the track... I'd recommend you find a good track school and sign up for the beginner instructor led course. Most good schools will usually start you off on a skid pad, auto cross style with DSC off and you can get to spin your car in a completely safe manner, then some schools will take you on to the track and slowly build your skills..

Also read this .. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005J0K7X6...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

and this ... https://learn.speedsecrets.com/

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by ccondo

I have done probably 30 days of hpde but drive with mdm on. Not interested in turning it off until I learn more about how to make corrections.

One excellent way is attending a school at this point, Bondurant, etc.

Honestly, if you have 30 track days of MDM driving/learning, you will have developed very bad habits in every aspect of high performance driving -- steering, braking and throttle. DSC will have been intervening, one-wheel braking, 2-wheel braking, 3-wheel braking, throttle control, etc, continually even when you aren't aware at all -- hence the reason driving the "real car" is necessary to really learn how to drive. DSC will have trained you to make steering, brake and throttle inputs in such a way that will not transfer to driving the real car near its limits.

Baring going to a serious driver's school, run your next event with DSC off, put the car in 4th gear all around the track, focus on smooooothness of inputs, smooooothness....work slowly up to relearning driving at high speeds.

Another suggestion is to attend an Evolution Autocross School. Take the Phase 1 school. You won't be sorry. Outstanding instructors and you'll learn more about car control in one day, in your own car, that you thought possible. Everything you learn will make you a better on-track driver.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ccondo

I have done probably 30 days of hpde but drive with mdm on. Not interested in turning it off until I learn more about how to make corrections.

Are you sure those are actual HPDE (High Performance Driver Education) events you are attending? If so, you should consider changing clubs. All the HPDE clubs I attend will not let a driver go for 30 days of schools without having tought through either classroom or on track instruction the basic concepts you inquiring about in this thread.

As others have stated, be very cautious if you turn DSC off. That many days of driving with MDM potentially has had you develop bad driving habits that can send you into the wall with DSC off. If you do go DSC off, get an instructor that is willing and inform him of your situation/intention (30 days of MDM and willingness to go DSC off), then follow his instructions. Be sure to significantly reduce your pace and then slowly rebuild the speed. Your instructor might very well ask you to do a few laps still with MDM to gauge if you indeed have bad habbits. Be very careful, I've seen way to many folks in your exact situation put it into the wall.

[HighlyMedicated]

If you lose control I don't think you would be able to regain it at a high speed. Happens so fast and your already lost the tires traction so doing anything won't add to the traction even if braking. If your talking like a drift lose control maybe counter steer and some gas pedal modulation but even then at speeds on track you would spin out in seconds! Your supposed to test the limits and drive within them...if you lose control its past the limits and you know what not to do. Its not like a motorcycle that wobbles in motogp and the rider somehow gets it straight again without flying like superman. Just hope no obstructions when your spinning and hold on for the ride lol.

If someone can go back to normal after losing control I very interested how...

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by HighlyMedicated

If you lose control I don't think you would be able to regain it at a high speed. Happens so fast and your already lost the tires traction so doing anything won't add to the traction even if braking. If your talking like a drift lose control maybe counter steer and some gas pedal modulation but even then at speeds on track you would spin out in seconds! Your supposed to test the limits and drive within them...if you lose control its past the limits and you know what not to do. Its not like a motorcycle that wobbles in motogp and the rider somehow gets it straight again without flying like superman. Just hope no obstructions when your spinning and hold on for the ride lol.

If someone can go back to normal after losing control I very interested how...

It depends how deep in doodoo you let yourself go into.

For example, it is possible for the rear to unintentionally step out. That still qualifies as a loss of control because it was not intentional. But with proper skill and reflex, a good driver can correct it and bring the car back in line.

[te37]

Really broad topic here. Loosing control could mean your rear is starting to turn out on you or going backwards into a guardrail. How deep would you be in? And if you have 30 days of HPDE and still in MDM what are they teaching or not teaching?

Maybe try a different HPDE.

[HighlyMedicated]

That must be a slow corner correct? I figure drifting style but going into a corner and losing control means your going pretty darn fast. There are clips of high speed drifts but they are only doing one drift for a long time not switching to the other way like a slow drift, too much momentum. At high speeds, watching racing on tv, even the pros can't do anything...they usually don't lose control and spin out there. They just understeer straight into a barrier!

Move your hands steering very fast and hope it regains traction! I do watch track videos and that steering wheel is constantly moving ! I do turn the wheel a little more and frequently on some turns but never lost traction to counter steer.

[HighlyMedicated]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It depends how deep in doodoo you let yourself go into.

For example, it is possible for the rear to unintentionally step out. That still qualifies as a loss of control because it was not intentional. But with proper skill and reflex, a good driver can correct it and bring the car back in line.

If and when the rear does step out what do you recommend? foot off pedal? add a little more gas? steering in what direction and slightly or full counter?

[ccondo]

God sometimes I hate this forum. There is some very useful information in here but comments like they aren't real HPDEs. Come one.

PCA
NASA
REZOOM
CHIN
BMWCCA

which one of these isn't real?

[mcvaughan]

Originally Posted by HighlyMedicated

If and when the rear does step out what do you recommend? foot off pedal? add a little more gas? steering in what direction and slightly or full counter?

Definitely don't lift off throttle. That will only increase the loss of control. Best thing to do in that scenario is to modulate the throttle while making steering inputs (typically into the slide).

[MrSmileyDC]

At the performance center we drifted on the skid pad. You basically keep your eyes in the direction you want the car to go and steer left/right as the back of the car slides. You control the slide using the gas pedal as well. In a scenario of a complete spin out at high speed its probably best to just let go of the steering wheel to keep from breaking your arms or wrists trying to hold on to it. You can experiment with mdm, but as long as all the stability controls on the car are turned on it's actually pretty difficult to get the car to lose control.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by HighlyMedicated

If and when the rear does step out what do you recommend? foot off pedal? add a little more gas? steering in what direction and slightly or full counter?

There are two types of oversteer possible with a RWD vehicle (or AWD): trailing throttle oversteer which usually happens on corner entry (before the apex) or power oversteer which usually happens on corner exit (after the apex, and not possible with FWD vehicles). Depending on which type of oversteer you are faced with, different throttle inputs will be needed, but both will require countersteering (turning the steering wheel in the same direction the rear is stepping out). When countersteering, it is important not to over do it. Don't turn the wheel too much when countersteering and as soon as the rear comes back in line, progressively bring the steering wheel back straight (the front wheels should always be pointing in the direction you want to head to). Countersteer too much or don't center the steering wheel fast enough and you'll end up with a tank slap (which can be more traitorous than the initial oversteer).

Trailing throttle oversteer is the result of too much weight transferred to the front axle due to too much decelaration. Less weight on the rears wheels means less grip, hence the oversteer. Here slightly more throttle needs to be applied to transfer weight back to the rear wheels to get them to regain traction. Apply too much trottle though and you just go into power oversteer.

Power oversteer is the result of too much power sent to the rear wheels robbing available tire grip for lateral traction (think friction circle). Here slightly less throttle needs to be applied to allow more tire grip to be given back for lateral traction. Lift off the throttle too much and/or too abruptly and you end with trailing throttle oversteer. Staying on the throttle or applying more throttle with a good dose of countersteer when in power oversteer will turn the oversteer into a drift, which can be quite cool , but is not a "recovery" per say and is not the fastest way around a corner . Stay on throttle with delayed or insufficient countersteer and it will result in a slow spin (most common newbe mistake).

The key here is all about proper modulation of throttle and steering wheel. Not too much, not too little. It's good to understand the theory, but the proper reflexes can only come with practice.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by mcvaughan

Definitely don't lift off throttle. That will only increase the loss of control. Best thing to do in that scenario is to modulate the throttle while making steering inputs (typically into the slide).

Not quite true. See post above.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyDC

In a scenario of a complete spin out at high speed its probably best to just let go of the steering wheel to keep from breaking your arms or wrists trying to hold on to it.

Letting go of the steering wheel is definitely not a recommended approach. You should always be in control of the steering wheel.

Only experimented drifters should let the steering wheel slide in their hands.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ccondo

God sometimes I hate this forum. There is some very useful information in here but comments like they aren't real HPDEs. Come one.

PCA
NASA
REZOOM
CHIN
BMWCCA

which one of these isn't real?

I am not saying they are not "real". But I do question the quality of the instruction provided by your local chapters if after 30 days you were never tought the basics of car "recovery".

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by ccondo

God sometimes I hate this forum. There is some very useful information in here but comments like they aren't real HPDEs. Come one.

PCA
NASA
REZOOM
CHIN
BMWCCA

which one of these isn't real?

You are right. You came looking for help, and in your defense, those clubs DO NOT teach anything about car control and its doubtful any representative from those clubs will suggest you turn DSC off likely for liability reasons.

If you are looking for an instruction manual on exactly what to do when your car starts sliding, i don't think it really exists. Obviously there's some concepts like counter steer that makes logical sense, but in practice on the track these corrections are not "conscious" decisions. Rather it's more of a subconscious reflex based on sensory input and past experience. You build up muscle memory over time.

Because you've been using MDM for 30 tracks events, you have not built up that muscle memory. You'll need to take a step back on your track speed when you commit to DSC fully off. But if you don't you'll never progress. Will you spin the car, probably. Will you crash, maybe? If you're worried, buy track insurance. Do you have to push the limits of car at the fastest, sketchiest parts of the track, no.

We started my 11 year son in karting this year. He's already learning what to do when the kart starts sliding. I've never once had to tell him how to control the kart. Him and the other kids just seem to know what to do. There's kids out there 8 years old basically drifting the kart around every turn. It's pretty amazing. I suspect it's a skill that's innate in all human beings, just need to give it a chance to reveal itself.