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      08-17-2018, 11:37 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Seabee_1 View Post
New to these forums yes, and thanks for the welcome. I can take the heat Brother.....comes with the territory.
But can you? Many try and fail. This is not for people who get bullets and missles shot at them..this is BP..another level of handling stress..well...not too much for me....but I have seen all the people fall here.
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      08-17-2018, 11:56 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by irishbimmer View Post
The issue seems to be freedom of speech,and the real lack of respect the President shows others. Most have had enough; especially those that might know a thing or two that enable them to speak out regarding what actually happened. To censor the press, or patriots that render facts is horrific. You know, George Washington had many detractors as president but its a price one pays.
How exactly, in your opinion is this an issue of freedom of speech and what "others" exactly does the President show a lack of respect? Do you feel the President is infringing on someone's rights? Because last time I read the Constitution disrespecting somebody does not infringe upon anyone's Constitutional rights. Who exactly are the "Most" who has had enough? The state of California that continually infringes upon Constitutional rights? What have these "Most" had enough of? If the press was being censored no media could bash the President. Real Patriot's don't have to render facts.
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      08-18-2018, 12:05 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
But can you? Many try and fail. This is not for people who get bullets and missles shot at them..this is BP..another level of handling stress..well...not too much for me....but I have seen all the people fall here.
Are you really so ignorant to think that this forum is more stressful than enemy fire? Or was that a poor attempt at a joke that I somehow missed?
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      08-18-2018, 08:53 AM   #70
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Trump's theater of disrespect...

Apparently the papers are signed and the WH communications people are ready to revoke security clearances to disrupt negative news cycles. Arguments over whether he is chilling free speech seem somewhat pedantic when truth gives way to spectacle to this extent.
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      08-18-2018, 08:56 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabee_1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
But can you? Many try and fail. This is not for people who get bullets and missles shot at them..this is BP..another level of handling stress..well...not too much for me....but I have seen all the people fall here.
Are you really so ignorant to think that this forum is more stressful than enemy fire? Or was that a poor attempt at a joke that I somehow missed?
It's OBVIOUSLY a joke. Chill.
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      08-18-2018, 11:19 AM   #72
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I've been made aware of at least one good reason security clearances go with the person after employment. It still strikes me as a risk and I think the risks outweigh the benefits (unless you are that ex-employee looking for a consulting job). I'm sure there are many many thousands of people with security clearance no longer employed in the position that gave them that clearance. Simple analysis - the more people not on the payroll that need to be monitored, the more chances for someone who is a risk to have that clearance.

So I still advocate when you walk out the door of your employer, you no longer have clearance for sensitive material. If the issue is tapping institutional knowledge, let the agency picking the brain of an ex-employee execute a confidentiality agreement for that specific purpose.
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      08-18-2018, 11:35 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
I've been made aware of at least one good reason security clearances go with the person after employment. It still strikes me as a risk and I think the risks outweigh the benefits (unless you are that ex-employee looking for a consulting job). I'm sure there are many many thousands of people with security clearance no longer employed in the position that gave them that clearance. Simple analysis - the more people not on the payroll that need to be monitored, the more chances for someone who is a risk to have that clearance.

So I still advocate when you walk out the door of your employer, you no longer have clearance for sensitive material. If the issue is tapping institutional knowledge, let the agency picking the brain of an ex-employee execute a confidentiality agreement for that specific purpose.
Despite the loss of said clearance, the person who held it is still accountable, even after he/she leaves the place of employment, which gave it to him/her.
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      08-18-2018, 11:37 AM   #74
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It's all a big nothing burger, except Trump wants to deflect the news cycle when things aren't going his way.
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      08-18-2018, 11:38 AM   #75
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Has trumps top-secret Clearance been revoked by the Russians yet?
Or is he still need to know only regarding Putin's plans?
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      08-18-2018, 12:12 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabee_1 View Post
How exactly, in your opinion is this an issue of freedom of speech and what "others" exactly does the President show a lack of respect? Do you feel the President is infringing on someone's rights? Because last time I read the Constitution disrespecting somebody does not infringe upon anyone's Constitutional rights. Who exactly are the "Most" who has had enough? The state of California that continually infringes upon Constitutional rights? What have these "Most" had enough of? If the press was being censored no media could bash the President. Real Patriot's don't have to render facts.
Really? Do you really require an explanation? I have no desire to waste time defending the obvious.
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      08-18-2018, 12:17 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by are0lies View Post
Despite the loss of said clearance, the person who held it is still accountable, even after he/she leaves the place of employment, which gave it to him/her.
That's the problem, right? These folks regularly get hauled up in front of Congress to testify on an event they had involvement in and without clearance to access their past notes or files, they cant be of much use. Imagine if you had to testify in court about something you were involved in at work a few years back and you couldn't access any old work files, e-mails, or talk to co-workers. You'd probably be pretty worthless when it comes to the details.

When it comes to issues of national security, our threats don't reset every time an administration changes hands. Having access to people with historic knowledge of these complex threats seems like a good thing.
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      08-18-2018, 12:44 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Has trumps top-secret Clearance been revoked by the Russians yet?
Or is he still need to know only regarding Putin's plans?
Brilliant comment that adds to the discussion.
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      08-18-2018, 12:51 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
That's the problem, right? These folks regularly get hauled up in front of Congress to testify on an event they had involvement in and without clearance to access their past notes or files, they cant be of much use. Imagine if you had to testify in court about something you were involved in at work a few years back and you couldn't access any old work files, e-mails, or talk to co-workers. You'd probably be pretty worthless when it comes to the details.

When it comes to issues of national security, our threats don't reset every time an administration changes hands. Having access to people with historic knowledge of these complex threats seems like a good thing.
Good point but that can be solved on a case by case basis by allowing the accused access via a discovery process. A lot of this can be solved with some thought. I'm afraid the answer to why it is like it is is simply "because".
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      08-18-2018, 01:59 PM   #80
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Well, obviously the guy is bad. I mean, Google search came up with an image of him wearing green. Steiner voter?
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      08-18-2018, 02:56 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
It's OBVIOUSLY a joke. Chill.
Wow. He's new here and doesn't know me at all, so I can cut him some slack I suppose. Maybe he is another poster who just gets rattled easily.
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      08-18-2018, 02:59 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabee_1 View Post
Are you really so ignorant to think that this forum is more stressful than enemy fire? Or was that a poor attempt at a joke that I somehow missed?
Sorry if I offended you--many things should not be taken literal here and when they seem to be huge exaggerations..well...they might be jokes and should not be taken as offensive.
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      08-18-2018, 03:25 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabee_1 View Post
Are you really so ignorant to think that this forum is more stressful than enemy fire? Or was that a poor attempt at a joke that I somehow missed?
Sorry if I offended you--many things should not be taken literal here and when they seem to be huge exaggerations..well...they might be jokes and should not be taken as offensive.
He tells "YUGE" jokes here sometimes
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      08-18-2018, 04:05 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Good point but that can be solved on a case by case basis by allowing the accused access via a discovery process. A lot of this can be solved with some thought. I'm afraid the answer to why it is like it is is simply "because".
I'd prefer to think of the vast majority of our honorable, retired, officials who retain their security access as trusted advisors, instead of "the accused."
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      08-18-2018, 04:08 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
I'd prefer to think of the vast majority of our honorable, retired, officials who retain their security access as trusted advisors, instead of "the accused."
Ditto. I used that term as an answer to a post about official being brought up before an inquiry. Wrong choice of words.
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      08-18-2018, 04:11 PM   #86
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Ditto. I used that term as an answer to a post about official being brought up before an inquiry. Wrong choice of words.
Oh, OK, I see. I didn't read that far up.

Yep. we are in agreement then!
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      08-18-2018, 04:59 PM   #87
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      08-18-2018, 05:12 PM   #88
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As usual the bigger picture is lost among the small minded.

Just as with the public spectacle of grilling former and current FBI officials in a congressional hearing intended to be just that, a public spectacle, this is yet another step in politicizing of our government institutions.

Politicizing of institutions = corruption. If not now, at some point.

We live in a professional society which is only possible with a bureaucracy free from political fealty.

No matter how you cut it or spin it, the overarching direction of this and other similar actions is very bad and counter to the increasingly professional society we've built over the last century.

You might think you want to live in an unprofessional society where your politics determines your status in government and speaking out against the leader, even if you are wrong, triggers retaliation by the government, but you really don't.
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