Why F80 M3 wins vs E92 M3

[617E90M3]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

Here's a 6MT Dinan S1 M4 vs E92 s/c

Yeah, not sure what kit that is though. I would love to run a tune/bolt on m3/4 and see what happens.

[kdtrieuan]

E92 with Akrapovic - Shut up and take my money

[larryn]

Originally Posted by kdtrieuan

E92 with Akrapovic - Shut up and take my money

If all you care about is sound.. go for it. I'm personally 3-5 seconds faster per lap in the F82 than my old E92 M3, depending on the track, and able to keep up with and pass cars I couldn't have dreamed of passing last year.

And before you say it's just a rookie driver getting better.. I've been doing track events for 20 years. The F82 is a track weapon for more than the E92 is.

[ClothSeats]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

Just stop this shit. Enjoy whatever car you like. I just spent two days at Bimmerfest with E92s, E46s, generic 3series, old ass 80s cars, big ass M5s and it was nothing but love between everybody.
All love, what a great community. Everyone drooling over everybody else's whatever generation, M or not. Just car love.....then you turn the internet on and this shit.

I love my F80 but I also loved that 1986 3 series I saw at Bimmerfest with a base interior and completely mechanical and analog personality and let's not kid ourselves, I freaking love how my F80 sounds with an MPE but no doubt an E92 sounds blissful.

But my d*** is bigger than yours, and I have to prove it to you.

[Jockey]

So does this debate have to come up every 3 months or so or what?

[Sergm3]

Originally Posted by Jockey

So does this debate have to come up every 3 months or so or what?

I didn't want to debate which car sounds nicer. I had e92 m3 then sold it for m5 because I need 4 doors. Back when v8 m3 came out I was in my e39 m5 and 2002 m5 had full leather dash and e60 m5 head heads up display. My thoughts with bmw why they didn't offer it on the e92 m3. I was disappointed that I can't even get e90 m3, because no carbon roof option. All I wanted to say. I'm very happy with current m3 it has all the options you want and BMW did awesome job with this current version and I'm not missing my old m3 one bit. Soon I'll be back in my "ultimate driving machine" and will be keeping this m3 for long time.

[Fortyb]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

Just stop this shit. Enjoy whatever car you like. I just spent two days at Bimmerfest with E92s, E46s, generic 3series, old ass 80s cars, big ass M5s and it was nothing but love between everybody.
All love, what a great community. Everyone drooling over everybody else's whatever generation, M or not. Just car love.....then you turn the internet on and this shit.

I love my F80 but I also loved that 1986 3 series I saw at Bimmerfest with a base interior and completely mechanical and analog personality and let's not kid ourselves, I freaking love how my F80 sounds with an MPE but no doubt an E92 sounds blissful.

I might have to make this my permanent quote on my sig.. Well said.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Jockey

So does this debate have to come up every 3 months or so or what?

Its no different than the E92 vs E46 debates that used to come up everytime someone posted a VS about it. At this point its all in good fun. Until someone gets all bent out of shape and makes a cuss post

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Sergm3

I didn't want to debate which car sounds nicer. I had e92 m3 then sold it for m5 because I need 4 doors. Back when v8 m3 came out I was in my e39 m5 and 2002 m5 had full leather dash and e60 m5 head heads up display. My thoughts with bmw why they didn't offer it on the e92 m3. I was disappointed that I can't even get e90 m3, because no carbon roof option. All I wanted to say. I'm very happy with current m3 it has all the options you want and BMW did awesome job with this current version and I'm not missing my old m3 one bit. Soon I'll be back in my "ultimate driving machine" and will be keeping this m3 for long time.

I feel like you are way too hung up on the appearance of a CF roof. The CF roof is 3-4 lbs lighter than a steel roof without a sunroof.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I feel like you are way too hung up on the appearance of a CF roof. The CF roof is 3-4 lbs lighter than a steel roof without a sunroof.

CF roof is a major visual selling point of this car IMO.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by larryn

If all you care about is sound.. go for it. I'm personally 3-5 seconds faster per lap in the F82 than my old E92 M3, depending on the track, and able to keep up with and pass cars I couldn't have dreamed of passing last year.

And before you say it's just a rookie driver getting better.. I've been doing track events for 20 years. The F82 is a track weapon for more than the E92 is.

Same here.

Also tracking cars for over 20 years and I am ~2 seconds faster over a ~2min lap in my F82 than I was in my E92. I ran the E92 for 6 seasons, so it was pretty well dialed in at the end. This is only my second season with the F82, so there is even more time to be shaved.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I feel like you are way too hung up on the appearance of a CF roof. The CF roof is 3-4 lbs lighter than a steel roof without a sunroof.

On the M4, the CF roof and top bow save 8kg (17.6lb) over steel components. I agree, not a huge amount, but every bit counts and more than the 3-4lb you mention .

The steel and glass sunroof adds ~50lb compared to the CF roof.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

On the M4, the CF roof and top bow save 8kg (17.6lb) over steel components. I agree, not a huge amount, but every bit counts and more than the 3-4lb you mention .

The steel and glass sunroof adds ~50lb compared to the CF roof.

The top bow is independent of the roof panel. As in, the e92 did not have a CF roof bow, so the sedan not having a CF roof only cost it the weight difference of the roof panels themselves.

That said.... where are you getting the 8kg number from? I ask because, when I installed the CF roof on my e46, I compared the weights of the sunroof roof with sunroof stuff, a steel roof panel, and the CF roof panel... And the CF panel was 4 lbs lighter than the steel, steel was 44 lbs lighter than sunroof/steel. Hard to imagine roof panels have changed that much... unless they're using a much thicker steel on the new cars? Seems unlikely given priorities in the modern era...

Side note: The roof bow, which I welded in, was light enough that I can't see it making a significant difference to the numbers. The steel e46 bow was < 2 lbs.




Terrible project, btw.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Obioban

The top bow is independent of the roof panel. As in, the e92 did not have a CF roof bow, so the sedan not having a CF roof only cost it the weight difference of the roof panels themselves.

That said.... where are you getting the 8kg number from? I ask because, when I installed the CF roof on my e46, I compared the weights of the sunroof roof with sunroof stuff, a steel roof panel, and the CF roof panel... And the CF panel was 4 lbs lighter than the steel, steel was 44 lbs lighter than sunroof/steel. Hard to imagine roof panels have changed that much... unless they're using a much thicker steel on the new cars? Seems unlikely given priorities in the modern era...

Side note: The roof bow, which I welded in, was light enough that I can't see it making a significant difference to the numbers. The steel e46 bow was < 2 lbs.




Terrible project, btw.

I got the numbers from the M3/4 technical training docs. You are correct, the bow is a smaller part of the equation, but is still providing weight reduction in the roof from the use of composite materials. BMW say 6.5kg weight savings from the roof panel and 1.5 kg from the bow on the M4. On the M3, having a smaller roof, the savings from the roof panel itself is 5kg.

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

On the M4, the CF roof and top bow save 8kg (17.6lb) over steel components. I agree, not a huge amount, but every bit counts and more than the 3-4lb you mention .

The steel and glass sunroof adds ~50lb compared to the CF roof.

And that 8kg savings is located at the most beneficial part of the body. I cringe when I see high performance sedans/coupes with those big, heavy glass sky observatories.

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Same here.

Also tracking cars for over 20 years and I am ~2 seconds faster over a ~2min lap in my F82 than I was in my E92. I ran the E92 for 6 seasons, so it was pretty well dialed in at the end. This is only my second season with the F82, so there is even more time to be shaved.

Originally Posted by larryn

If all you care about is sound.. go for it. I'm personally 3-5 seconds faster per lap in the F82 than my old E92 M3, depending on the track, and able to keep up with and pass cars I couldn't have dreamed of passing last year.

And before you say it's just a rookie driver getting better.. I've been doing track events for 20 years. The F82 is a track weapon for more than the E92 is.

me three...

doing track events for years and the F8x is just amazing all-around vs. the E9x. Power / tq sure, but the dynamics and the way the car handles is at a much higher performance level. Dropped 3 secs easy from my E9x times with exactly the same mods, and there's more to be had. Despite the weight, in the turns, I'm right behind much lighter cars that are track prepped, sometimes even pushing them a tad.

re: sound, my E9x w/ Akra, nothing will ever replace that : ) Loved it.
Dropped in a AWE NR exhaust, broke it in at track, and now the F8x sounds great. Not a V8 sound of course, but damn aggressive and addicting to push at boil every single time (race car sounding : ).

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SROC5

re: sound, my E9x w/ Akra, nothing will ever replace that : ) Loved it.
Dropped in a AWE NR exhaust, broke it in at track, and now the F8x sounds great. Not a V8 sound of course, but damn aggressive and addicting to push at boil every single time (race car sounding : ).

+1

It is surprising how many times I get approached at the track about the sound of the car. So many people telling me how amazing it sounds, even E9X M3 owners . They are also quite stunned when they asked me what mods I have and I tell them I only have the MPE . But I do cheat a little with the valve control module. Before I had it, the valves opening and closing constantly going around the track made it sound crappy; with the valves always open, it sounds very aggressive and pretty decent IMO.

[Bob Santorini]

I concur with most of the above.

My E92 CP santorini blue.
Loved it's rarity, sound and how it was planted.

My F82
Love - torque, vastly improved interior, exterior.
Dislike - spikey power delivery, traction off the mark hard to manage (in cold/wet), noise (sorry), not as well planted as my old E92 on favourite back roads.

Dream improvements to F82:
Better suspension (CP???)
Sort the sound - straight sixes in other cars can sound good.
less aggressive torque map in first 2 gears
LED rear lights!! Come on BMW, LEDs have been around for years now. Standardise the rears!

Perfect!

Bob

[Obioban]

I think you guys are equating "faster" to "better" for tracking. I'd say that's true for race cars, but for DEs I don't really see it. As in, I'd rather track and e30 than an X5M, and the X5M would stomp all over the e30.

For a track car, I want a car with good feel, linear power, proper throttle response, predictable handling, fast enough to be engaging/not frustrating, and good reliability.... which means the F8X is the worst M3 to use as a track car, of all the M3 generations.

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I think you guys are equating "faster" to "better" for tracking. I'd say that's true for race cars, but for DEs I don't really see it. As in, I'd rather track and e30 than an X5M, and the X5M would stomp all over the e30.

For a track car, I want a car with good feel, linear power, predictable handling, fast enough to be engaging/not frustrating, and goodreliability.... which means the F8X is the worst M3 to use as a track car, of all the M3 generations.

Honestly, feels great to me, car is linear if you know how to drive it, very predictable and progressive at the limit, and more reliable than my E9x at tracking (runs cooler, does not eat oil, rotors hold up better, brakes better, etc.). It weighs close to the E46 with more usuable power, and is only 6,000 nm off from a E46 DTM race car in rigidity. I agree the EPS isn't as communicative as the Hydro, but that's about it.

If anything, next to the E30, this M3 out of the box is the most competent and capable one ever built...

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

+1

It is surprising how many times I get approached at the track about the sound of the car. So many people telling me how amazing it sounds, even E9X M3 owners . They are also quite stunned when they asked me what mods I have and I tell them I only have the MPE . But I do cheat a little with the valve control module. Before I had it, the valves opening and closing constantly going around the track made it sound crappy; with the valves always open, it sounds very aggressive and pretty decent IMO.

Yep, a lot people are surprised how good it sounds as they were under the distinct impression it's supposed to sound like crap...

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Obioban

For a track car, I want a car with good feel, linear power, predictable handling, fast enough to be engaging/not frustrating, and goodreliability....

Which perfectly defines the F8X

Originally Posted by Obioban

which means the F8X is the worst M3 to use as a track car, of all the M3 generations.

And you sir, are totally off the mark.

I've owned an E46 for 7 years, an E92 for 6 years and am now in my 3rd year with the F82. All of them saw pretty decent track time (~20 days per season). I've also driven an E30 and an E36 on track. From my experience, as a track car, the F82 is the best one of them all.