M2 using S55, what gives!

[Ilikemike]

Probably discussed elsewhere, but with the M2 Competition using the S55, where does the M3/4 go in terms of power and uniqueness/prestige, GTS motor? Porsche had the same problem with the Cayman and 911, which they solved with a four cylinder power plant in the cayman. But where does BMW need to go to raise the bar in it's M3/4?

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

the tuning is different. GTS uses the same engine more or less. power is no longer the pissing contest...traction is

[Ilikemike]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

the tuning is different. GTS uses the same engine more or less. power is no longer the pissing contest...traction is

So you think the m3/4 will have awd/cup 2's and that might swing the preference to a m3 over a m2? Maybe, but I think it'll be a hard sell, I'd be thinking m2 right now, not m3, unless the drivetrain is significantly 'better', awd would not do it for me....

[mkoesel]

The F80 M3 is ending production this year so it won't ever have to share showroom space with the M2 Competition. This allows the M2 Competition to move up market a bit without crowding the next product up the chain, the M4.

The next generation G80 M3 is at least two years off (and possibly three). It will use a new engine, the S58, which is set to make its debut soon in the X3 M. This is a TT I6 based on the B58 engine and it should have close to 500hp in Competition Package form. We do know the next generation M2 will remain on a RWD chassis and retain I6 power (rather than move to the FWD UKL chassis), but it's not clear yet whether it will also use a version of the S58 or if they'll go back to a single turbo I6 of some yet-to-be-revealed designation.

The other wildcard is AWD which the next generation M3/M4 may have, but the M2 will not.

[JayZap16]

Originally Posted by Ilikemike

Probably discussed elsewhere, but with the M2 Competition using the S55, where does the M3/4 go in terms of power and uniqueness/prestige, GTS motor? Porsche had the same problem with the Cayman and 911, which they solved with a four cylinder power plant in the cayman. But where does BMW need to go to raise the bar in it's M3/4?

In terms of power, I feel that like it has been said, it is easy these days to get 500+ hp. The trick is to design a drive train that can successfully/comfortably transfer it to the road (while minimizing weight). The real selling point/marketing point compared to the comp M2 will be that it is a new chassis. Most M-BMW (non enthusiasts) get a new car because its the latest model. With a completely redesigned car come a completely redesigned lust to own it. Also, lets face it, every next gen M3 is always much different then the previous in someway or the other. We just have to wait and see what the mad scientists are cooking up at M division.

[aerostar]

Not to mention that the interior of the M2 is much less refined than the M3/4.

I had a 235i and it wasn't even close.

[CanAutM3]

The pecking order is maintained with different tunes of the S55:

M2C 405hp
M4 425HP
M4CP 444hp
M4CS 454hp

I think it is a good thing for the M2C to get the S55, as I found the base M2 to be short on top end power. The S55 should resolve that for the M2.

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by aerostar

Not to mention that the interior of the M2 is much less refined than the M3/4.

I had a 235i and it wasn't even close.

This is what I was going to mention. Setting aside that the same motor is now in the M2/M3/M4, there are still significant differences between the vehicles.

The M2 interior is more spartan and appeals to those who don't care about this. There is also noticeably less room inside.

The M3/M4 are significantly more upscale (particularly with full leather), and more spacious. For the M3, there is also the appeal of a sport sedan that offers a 6-speed.

There are probably other differences between the M2 and M3/M4, and I'm simply mentioning what is apparent to me.

If all the buyer wants is power and nothing else matters too much, then the M2 is a good choice (unless high MSRP). The M3/M4 get much more expensive when optioned up.

Personally, as my F80 is a DD, I care about the interior quality and size. Oh yeah, let's not forget about the all-important CF roof.

[FC]

Until M2 gets two extra doors, the M3 is king.

To me, the M3 is the compelling option of the two F8X cars. Many more cars (new and used) compete with the M4.

I would probably go with the M2 over the M4 even without the S55.
Personally, I would get the most 911 I could get, or better yet, the most Cayman/Boxster I could get before I get an M2 or M4.

At least the original M2 was a steep discount over an M4 and pretty good value new.

If I felt there was a chance of needing the back seats, I'd just get the M3.

Just my opinion.

[Sinnakle]

Originally Posted by FC

Until M2 gets two extra doors, the M3 is king.

To me, the M3 is the compelling option of the two F8X cars. Many more cars (new and used) compete with the M4.

I would probably go with the M2 over the M4 even without the S55.
Personally, I would get the most 911 I could get, or better yet, the most Cayman/Boxster I could get before I get an M2 or M4.

At least the original M2 was a steep discount over an M4 and pretty good value new.

If I felt there was a chance of needing the back seats, I'd just get the M3.

Just my opinion.

I think this is what the majority of possible buyers would look at. I've owned a smaller "4 seat" coupe and unless you're transporting children then the backseats might as well be an extension of the trunk or the driver is a shorter individual. I bought an M4 because I didn't care about the backseats. I'm 6'1 and I lived in Germany when the 1 series came out. I liked the look of it but didn't want to own one. I feel the same about the M2. Great car, but not for me.

[aerostar]

Originally Posted by JibSTir13

This is what I was going to mention. Setting aside that the same motor is now in the M2/M3/M4, there are still significant differences between the vehicles.

The M2 interior is more spartan and appeals to those who don't care about this. There is also noticeably less room inside.

The M3/M4 are significantly more upscale (particularly with full leather), and more spacious. For the M3, there is also the appeal of a sport sedan that offers a 6-speed.

There are probably other differences between the M2 and M3/M4, and I'm simply mentioning what is apparent to me.

If all the buyer wants is power and nothing else matters too much, then the M2 is a good choice (unless high MSRP). The M3/M4 get much more expensive when optioned up.

Personally, as my F80 is a DD, I care about the interior quality and size. Oh yeah, let's not forget about the all-important CF roof.

I'd say that the interiors are almost identical as far as space goes.

https://www.cars.com/research/compar...,USC80BMC641A0

I guess the big difference would be a *slightly* wider center console. Otherwise, the car only feels bigger in the M4 cause the car is larger, not b/c the interior volume is bigger.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by Ilikemike

Probably discussed elsewhere, but with the M2 Competition using the S55, where does the M3/4 go in terms of power and uniqueness/prestige, GTS motor? Porsche had the same problem with the Cayman and 911, which they solved with a four cylinder power plant in the cayman. But where does BMW need to go to raise the bar in it's M3/4?

Let the M2 get the best engine it can and be the best car it can. Similarly, let the M4 be the best car it can.

I am sure I am not the only one who hates automakers intentionally handicapping a car to fit it into it's hierarchy.

Most people including myself think that the M2 can be a lot better if it got the same treatment as an M4. Similarly, a Cayman GT4 with a naturally aspirated 4.0 L GT3 engine can also be very good if not better than a GT3 when equipped with the same engine.

In an ideal world automakers would not listen to customers like you and not artificially handicap a car. Unfortunately for some of us, this isn't an ideal world.

[HPIA4v2]

I believe the regular M2 will still based of N55/B58, M2 comp is limited run of 1000 unit.
When I learn about the limited run, I stop searching for price; If M3/M4 is discounted like this year, leasing/buying M3/M4 ZCP maybe cheaper than M2 comp.

I pick up my 2018 M3 with $9k off of MSRP (discount + incentives), on M2 the best I could do was $2K fleet. can't imagine a limited run M2 comp will be discounted and BMWNA may exclude fleet from it as well.

[dkhm3]

I don't understand the thread. BMW traditionally uses bespoke M motors for M division, shared across the M line. The fact that the M2 had used a modified N55 was actually the anomaly.

x5m,m5,m6 all used the same motor with slightly different output.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by HPIA4v2

I believe the regular M2 will still based of N55/B58, M2 comp is limited run of 1000 unit.
When I learn about the limited run, I stop searching for price; If M3/M4 is discounted like this year, leasing/buying M3/M4 ZCP maybe cheaper than M2 comp.

I pick up my 2018 M3 with $9k off of MSRP (discount + incentives), on M2 the best I could do was $2K fleet. can't imagine a limited run M2 comp will be discounted and BMWNA may exclude fleet from it as well.

There is no regular M2 anymore, it's gone. M2 Comp is the only M2 being offered starting with MY2019 and it's not a limited run either (no set production limit). It'll probably just as limited as the regular M2.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by cntzl

There is no regular M2 anymore, it's gone. M2 Comp is the only M2 being offered starting with MY2019 and it's not a limited run either (no set production limit). It'll probably just as limited as the regular M2.

I read that, and thought that was rather unusual for bmw, considering how they normally have the civic version with the comp version.

I think with all the upgrades to the comp pack m2, the pricing I have seen on the m2 forums should be close to 60k or slightly over, msrp- which is fair because the m2 has so little options to choose from and the car has pretty much all you need base.

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by aerostar

I'd say that the interiors are almost identical as far as space goes.

https://www.cars.com/research/compar...,USC80BMC641A0

I guess the big difference would be a *slightly* wider center console. Otherwise, the car only feels bigger in the M4 cause the car is larger, not b/c the interior volume is bigger.

Looks like the interior dimensions are closer than I thought. M4 has just 0.7" more legroom up front, and 0.9" more shoulder room.

But the M4 has a 4.7" longer wheelbase, which is good or bad depending on what one is looking for. As a DD, I'd go for a nicely optioned M4.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I read that, and thought that was rather unusual for bmw, considering how they normally have the civic version with the comp version.

I think with all the upgrades to the comp pack m2, the pricing I have seen on the m2 forums should be close to 60k or slightly over, msrp- which is fair because the m2 has so little options to choose from and the car has pretty much all you need base.

If you read the interview with this Frank guy on the M2 forum, you'll see it was their original plan anyway (i.e. offering both base and comp together). They had to kill the N55 M2 due to the new emission laws in Europe. I think it will cost high 50s but with all those extra options and packages the price will definitely reach $70K fully loaded.

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by cntzl

If you read the interview with this Frank guy on the M2 forum, you'll see it was their original plan anyway (i.e. offering both base and comp together). They had to kill the N55 M2 due to the new emission laws in Europe. I think it will cost high 50s but with all those extra options and packages the price will definitely reach $70K fully loaded.

I realize this is just an estimate on your part, but if true (or close) that's a lot of coin for an M2, and into Cayman S territory.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by JibSTir13

That's a lot of coin for an M2, and into Cayman S territory.

I expect a base around $58K but the wheels, seats, and brakes will cost $$$. Cayman S starts from $70k so not sure on your point plus it's not a 6 cylinder anymore... I bet you can get away with $60K if you don't go crazy with all that extra stuff. However, It's nice that they offering lighter forged wheels and bigger brakes (which is not even possible on M3/M4 unless you go for CCB). Of course M2C is not perfect either. It weighs almost as much as an M4. Nothing wrong with my M4 but I like the M2C so far. I'll probably make the move.

Edit: Yes, the prices I mentioned are just my estimation. M2C got 5.4% price increase in UK over regular M2. If you apply the same rate to the US pricing, the base price comes to $58K.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by cntzl

If you read the interview with this Frank guy on the M2 forum, you'll see it was their original plan anyway (i.e. offering both base and comp together). They had to kill the N55 M2 due to the new emission laws in Europe. I think it will cost high 50s but with all those extra options and packages the price will definitely reach $70K fully loaded.

thanks for the answer. that makes sense, for this anomaly.

looks like it can be loaded up to almost 70k if you include m school, moonroof, carplay, etc. but with exec pack, dct, it should be close to 64-65k.

I for one, love the s55 motor. yes it sounds bleh, but I love the responsiveness and the top end of that motor, it just has so much pull from 4k-7.6k redline. A fun car to just rev out. M2 comp owners are blessed. And yes, I've driven the M2 with the N55.

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by cntzl

I expect a base around $58K but the wheels, seats, and brakes will cost $$$. Cayman S starts from $70k so not sure on your point plus it's not a 6 cylinder anymore... I bet you can get away with $60K if you don't go crazy with all that extra stuff. However, It's nice that they offering lighter forged wheels and bigger brakes (which is not even possible on M3/M4 unless you go for CCB). Of course M2C is not perfect either. It weighs almost as much as an M4. Nothing wrong with my M4 but I like the M2C so far. I'll probably make the move.

Edit: Yes, the prices I mentioned are just my estimation. M2C got 5.4% price increase in UK over regular M2. If you apply the same rate to the US pricing, the base price comes to $58K.

What I mean is that you can get a Cayman S (without options of course) for the same price as a loaded M2 (as estimated). One is a beefed up car on a non-sports car platform, the other was designed as a sports car form the get go. Since either car would be a toy/weekend car rather than a DD for me, I'd opt for the S.

Yes, the Cayman is a turbo-4, but that alone is not a deal breaker for me. It's not simply about a larger motor, rather the overall package of the entire vehicle.