The new BMW M3 will never live up to your expectations

[rmanm4]

Good history of M3 with Jason Cammisa!

[x.shell]

Originally Posted by rmanm4

Good history of M3 with Jason Cammisa!

I've been enjoying Jason Cammisa's ICON series. He's a car journalist that ACTUALLY talks like a car guy. Hagerty's has really benefited from Cammisa.

Randy!

[rmanm4]

Im not sure I would take what he feels about the new G8X as gold. I owned a e46 M3 for 8 years, I've driven E92 M3 and the new G82. My gut and heart told me the F82 is a perfect upgrade from a E46 M3. The F82 is missing some soul that the e46 M3 had, specially around a corner, but the F82 just needs suspension upgrade to get there. The G82 felt too much like a 5 series car, it was fully disconnected from the e46 M3 chassis and feel.

You really need to drive all the generations to understand them! I didnt get a chance to drive a e30 M3, only a e30 325i. But I love the F82, its perfect balance of everything and for him to say its missing it all just tells me to take what he says with a grain of salt!

[Driver407]

Noice Thunderhill!

[Driver407]

Originally Posted by x.shell

I've been enjoying Jason Cammisa's ICON series. He's a car journalist that ACTUALLY talks like a car guy. Hagerty's has really benefited from Cammisa.

Cammisa is fun when he is on smoking tire podcast. Matt picks a random number, then Cammisa picks his car review for that number out of his books. He has thousands and thousands of detailed reviews.

[YKIGI]

In my opinion from ownership

Not sure about 30

46 = nimble, planted, connected, lacks some punch
Very BMW

90 = smooth, throaty, high rev, no torque
50% Of the bmw feel of the 46

82 = muscle car with a bmw badge
4% of the bmw feel of the 90

You can see where I’m going with this...
New car is prolly a boat

I like the 82 the best so far tho. Fits my needs and I like the chassis, looks and extra power. It’s definitely the toughest all around 3 series ever.

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by rmanm4

Im not sure I would take what he feels about the new G8X as gold. I owned a e46 M3 for 8 years, I've driven E92 M3 and the new G82. My gut and heart told me the F82 is a perfect upgrade from a E46 M3. The F82 is missing some soul that the e46 M3 had, specially around a corner, but the F82 just needs suspension upgrade to get there. The G82 felt too much like a 5 series car, it was fully disconnected from the e46 M3 chassis and feel.

You really need to drive all the generations to understand them! I didnt get a chance to drive a e30 M3, only a e30 325i. But I love the F82, its perfect balance of everything and for him to say its missing it all just tells me to take what he says with a grain of salt!

Yeah him just skipping the generation as quick as he did saying the F series did nothing right struck me as odd.

I really liked the history lesson and road driving with the older generations.
They're nice and the E30 stays beauty!

[rmanm4]

Originally Posted by YKIGI

82 = muscle car with a bmw badge
4% of the bmw feel of the 90

F82 a muscle car???

Go drive a M8 or even a M5/6 first before you call the F82 a muscle car!

Traditional muscle cars have a heavy boat feeling to it. F8X chassis is much more nimble and light. F82 is not E46 when it comes to chassis and suspension but its pretty close once you do some upgrades. You wont get that steering wheel feel (feel of every rock/crack/hole under the tire) of the e46 M3 though!

The F82 I feel sits perfectly between a E46 M3 and a M5.....so where does the G8X fit in???? Much more closer to the M5!

This is all my opinion obviously and I probably don't know jack!

[fiveohwblow]

We are also just completely blowing by the e36, which in its own right, is a beauty. I get it isnt very loved here on the F8x forums, but it is universally appreciated. First youtube video I have appreciated in quite some time that I disagreed with a few points.

[rmanm4]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

We are also just completely blowing by the e36, which in its own right, is a beauty. I get it isnt very loved here on the F8x forums, but it is universally appreciated. First youtube video I have appreciated in quite some time that I disagreed with a few points.

e36 is only beautiful once you put a S54 in it!

[fiveohwblow]

Originally Posted by rmanm4

e36 is only beautiful once you put a S54 in it!

I think that takes it from beautiful in its own right to EXCEPTIONAL

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

We are also just completely blowing by the e36, which in its own right, is a beauty. I get it isnt very loved here on the F8x forums, but it is universally appreciated. First youtube video I have appreciated in quite some time that I disagreed with a few points.

For real - E36 is criminally underrated and I'd actually take one over an E46 as a build car especially since I have F82. Value for money among M3s is unmatched with the E36

[YKIGI]

Originally Posted by rmanm4

F82 a muscle car???

Go drive a M8 or even a M5/6 first before you call the F82 a muscle car!

Traditional muscle cars have a heavy boat feeling to it. F8X chassis is much more nimble and light. F82 is not E46 when it comes to chassis and suspension but its pretty close once you do some upgrades. You wont get that steering wheel feel (feel of every rock/crack/hole under the tire) of the e46 M3 though!

The F82 I feel sits perfectly between a E46 M3 and a M5.....so where does the G8X fit in???? Much more closer to the M5!

This is all my opinion obviously and I probably don't know jack!

No worries. I was referring to low end torque and wheel spin for those that can appreciate the analogy.

[NickyC]

I’ve had all generations of M3 since the E36 and the F82 is by far my favorite, so far ahead in fact the other generations are essentially dead to me. It does everything superbly well, and throw on some KW V3s and it’s just a pure unadulterated joy to drive. It has it all, with killer looks that still drops jaws to this day. I just fucking love this car, sorry to be crass but there it is.

[IB M]

Great vid - worth the 30 minutes.

Yes - Driving dynamics matter most but proportions and design are also just as important. At this size and with 4 door body design I'd simply rather grab an M5 with a V8.

I'd love to see Jason do the same style comparison of the G80 vs the current M5 unless u must have the 6MT.

[rmanm4]

Originally Posted by NickyC

I've had all generations of M3 since the E36 and the F82 is by far my favorite, so far ahead in fact the other generations are essentially dead to me. It does everything superbly well, and throw on some KW V3s and it's just a pure unadulterated joy to drive. It has it all, with killer looks that still drops jaws to this day. I just fucking love this car, sorry to be crass but there it is.

100% AGREE!! I did my research and came to the same conclusion really fast. Any issue with the F8X can be fixed and it doesn't feel outdated in anyway! Even next to a G80 it looks absolutely beautiful!

[Slowphiveo]

Cammisa hating the F8x is nothing new. He is at least consistent as he hated it since it first came out.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Only to be beat out by the new...... M4!

[Jbonly21]

Such a great video, evolution of the M3. Still won't give up my f80 for any of the older models. I do have my eye out for a E36 M3.

[m34m]

Originally Posted by Slowphiveo

Cammisa hating the F8x is nothing new. He is at least consistent as he hated it since it first came out.

Yeah but a lot of these guys formed their opinions with the early cars making the rounds amongst journalists. They never took the time to discover how much better sorted the Comp was and how spectacular the CS was, which was night and day to the original car. These guys form an opinion and stick to it even if they haven't driven the cars in years particularly the latest and most sorted iterations. It's lazy.

[m34m]

Originally Posted by rmanm4

Im not sure I would take what he feels about the new G8X as gold. I owned a e46 M3 for 8 years, I've driven E92 M3 and the new G82. My gut and heart told me the F82 is a perfect upgrade from a E46 M3. The F82 is missing some soul that the e46 M3 had, specially around a corner, but the F82 just needs suspension upgrade to get there. The G82 felt too much like a 5 series car, it was fully disconnected from the e46 M3 chassis and feel.

You really need to drive all the generations to understand them! I didnt get a chance to drive a e30 M3, only a e30 325i. But I love the F82, its perfect balance of everything and for him to say its missing it all just tells me to take what he says with a grain of salt!

The beauty of the M3 is that it is not an evolution like a 911. Instead each version carries the DNA and some character of past versions but each is it's own unique model bringing forward new ideas and technologies. That's what has kept the M3 so fresh and interesting you never know what they will do. That said Camissa is top of his field and one of my favorite journalists in a sea of average. However he missed the mark by omitting the E36, glossing over the E90/92, and outright dismissing the F80/2. All in an effort to build up the G80. That was pretty transparent and it's a shame because much of the spring board for the G80 was the beautifully sorted F80/2 CS.

Every new generation is met with some skepticism but over time is largely loved by the majority. Will this be the case for the new cars? There's no doubt the chassis dynamics are superb, I think that's established. However this car has characteristics that I think will be much harder to overcome even with the passage of time. Namely size, weight, slushbox, and of course that design and none of these things are changeable they are baked right into this car. Add in how digital and disconnected it is; excessive use of amplified sound and all, and this may be the first M3 that will not be universally loved or at least appreciated regardless how hard BMW markets it and journalists pump it.

Oh and did I mention the CS is great? Go get one.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by m34m

Yeah but a lot of these guys formed their opinions with the early cars making the rounds amongst journalists. They never took the time to discover how much better sorted the Comp was and how spectacular the CS was, which was night and day to the original car. These guys form an opinion and stick to it even if they haven't driven the cars in years particularly the latest and most sorted iterations. It's lazy.

That’s what sells though - short bite size snippets, buzz words, and talking points. Most people who watch reviews do so to fantasize about cars (us included) but not actually drive or own any of them. How else do you facilitate water cooler talk if not for wildly exaggerated or uninformed claims about cars lol.

I actually really like Cammisa, and I’m not offended that he doesn’t like F8X - that’s just him, he loves his E30, old school golfs, and old school mercs. I’m surprised he was as complimentary about G8X as he was though… seems like it is fundamentally an about-face relative to his preference in cars (based on his history).

There is one thing that resonated with me very much that Cammisa said (which seems to be lost among many of the G8X guys) which is “BMW figured out how to graft the charms of a race car into a street car that you could just about live with every day”. This is what the M3 has always been to me - it is dual purpose by design but it is intended to be a bit rough around the edges with that “race car” esque charm. I never viewed M3s as comfortable executive family cruisers that were the ultimate compromise car… but that’s just a difference in perspective I guess and that’s not to take anything away from G8X, but there’s no doubt that there was a fundamental shift in perspective when it came to it (as alluded to by Cammisa)