Do you recommend daily driving a F8x M3 in the snow? (Midwest)

[FTLC]

Hey everyone, I got a new job and in about 6 months I plan on trading in my b8.5 S4 for something newer and a bit faster. I actually love my Audi S4 to death, but being a huge BMW fan (Own an E46 m3, and previously a E36 M3) the F8x M platform is a no-brainer. However, it's RWD and I plan on modifying it; suspension, 500+HP, things of that nature. My job is in Columbus, Ohio where it snows every year. I'm also considering an Audi RS3, I think it's a monster of a car with advantages over the M car; the Quattro system being one. If I'm paying for a car every month, I plan on using it every month. I know using snow tires is essential, but even then is it enough to survive Ohio winters? It would be awesome if someone lives in the Columbus area to give me some insight on how the roads are there specifically.

Thanks!

[ntg44]

I went from the exact car you have to an M3. S4 is a tank with sport diff and snow tires. Can't be beat. But M3 has an LSD so with actual snow tires (NOT winter performance tires) you'll get by just fine. Don't recommend lowering too much though. It's much harder to get around when you're plowing snow.

I miss my B8.5. Should never have sold it but the gloss black paint was too much for me after 3 years.

[swagon]

640/641M wheels
Proper snow tires
Shovel
Snow chains
Keep it 1-2 gears higher than usual
MDM on

Don't slam it or you'll bottom out in deeper snow. Power mods will do absolute shit for winter driving. Undercoating to keep the rust away is recommended.

Source: three winter seasons with F80 and a lot more with other RWD BMWs. Worst part is stopping uphill and trying to get going again. You'll need to adjust your driving quite a bit coming from AWD, but it's very much doable.

[ofer1353]

Agree on real winter tires. Skip straight over performance and go studless (IMO). I do winters with my F80 in Chicago with 245’s (x-ice) and although it can get squirrely it is very workable.

[F30lolz]

I had a e28 for almost 16 years living in Upstate NY and used it during crappy NY weather. Lowered, 535is front air damn and snow tires. Never got stuck.

You’ll be fine.

[Mr Pete]

I drove a F80 for 1 winter with a set of
Nokian's. Tires make the difference.

[Frostynorth]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

I drove a F80 for 1 winter with a set of
Nokian's. Tires make the difference.

Absolutely this, Nokian Hakkapeliitta.

[FTLC]

Originally Posted by ntg44

I went from the exact car you have to an M3. S4 is a tank with sport diff and snow tires. Can't be beat. But M3 has an LSD so with actual snow tires (NOT winter performance tires) you'll get by just fine. Don't recommend lowering too much though. It's much harder to get around when you're plowing snow.

I miss my B8.5. Should never have sold it but the gloss black paint was too much for me after 3 years.

I have moonlight blue so it's not terrible but I am also at 3 years of ownership and the paint is showing those highway miles. It shifts from blue to black, incredible color and lesson learned to never do surface lot parking again in my life. I see that I can comfortably survive the winters in the M car from reading the other posts. My question is being someone who is also in the Audi world, for year-round driving.. (ill take my E46 M3 out in the summer a good bit) what would generally be more enjoyable? With the RS3 I like the idea of slapping some winter tires on, raising my coilovers up a tad and not worrying about a damn thing. With the M3 I like the idea of when the weather is fair, having something powered from the rear, a 6 speed manual, and quicker.

[FTLC]

Originally Posted by swagon

640/641M wheels
Proper snow tires
Shovel
Snow chains
Keep it 1-2 gears higher than usual
MDM on

Don't slam it or you'll bottom out in deeper snow. Power mods will do absolute shit for winter driving. Undercoating to keep the rust away is recommended.

Source: three winter seasons with F80 and a lot more with other RWD BMWs. Worst part is stopping uphill and trying to get going again. You'll need to adjust your driving quite a bit coming from AWD, but it's very much doable.

I know with Bootmod3 I can change maps on the fly. As far as suspension, I'm a big coilover guy so I will just raise them in the snow. Undercoating is a great recommendation I should see how much that usually runs.

[FTLC]

Originally Posted by ofer1353

Agree on real winter tires. Skip straight over performance and go studless (IMO). I do winters with my F80 in Chicago with 245’s (x-ice) and although it can get squirrely it is very workable.

Cheers. I think in Columbus we have less harsh winters than Chicago. As long as I don't have any white knuckle moments and can comfortably drive north on the highway in the winter to Cleveland to visit family once and awhile I would be satisfied

[Reddevils7]

just finished the past 3 winters with 255/40/18 blizzak lm-32s on my f82 in Toledo without any issues. the tread was low by the end of the 3rd winter though so had to be a bit more careful

[Tecnniqe]

Mine came with Nokian Hakkapelitta so I recommend using those. Shouldn't be a problem at all as long as you don't floor it in sport+

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by M3_Dylan_

I have moonlight blue so it's not terrible but I am also at 3 years of ownership and the paint is showing those highway miles. It shifts from blue to black, incredible color and lesson learned to never do surface lot parking again in my life. I see that I can comfortably survive the winters in the M car from reading the other posts. My question is being someone who is also in the Audi world, for year-round driving.. (ill take my E46 M3 out in the summer a good bit) what would generally be more enjoyable? With the RS3 I like the idea of slapping some winter tires on, raising my coilovers up a tad and not worrying about a damn thing. With the M3 I like the idea of when the weather is fair, having something powered from the rear, a 6 speed manual, and quicker.

I'll start off by saying I do not represent the majority on this forum (not even close), but since you asked...

After 3.5 years of ownership, I sold my M3 in June of 2020. Purely for personal reasons, had nothing to do with the car, but moreso needing the garage space. The M3 was too nice to park outside; I couldn't get myself to do it.

That being said, 6 months later I ended up in a 2020 WRX STI. Odd decision if you ask anyone on here, and I will admit a lot of it was a nostalgic/rose tinted glasses purchase. But after 6 months of ownership, it opened my eyes to a few things about the M3 that I was otherwise in denial when I owned it.

First and foremost, I want a fun street car. No plans or time to track, so keep this in mind. The biggest issues with my base M3 were the suspension tuning and traction control intervention. Shock rebound was awful and the rear end felt floaty, which triggered TC way more than it should have. Combined with a way too aggressive TC programming to begin with, and it kind of ruins the whole 400whp RWD experience in my opinion. I cannot stand having power that's not accessible or that's fighting me along the way. I have a lead foot and I do not care about modulation. I just want to go fast and have fun when the situation permits. RE-71Rs helped, but not enough.

I was able to fix the TC issue with coil-overs, but they were so stiff that they ruined the ride so it was a lose/lose for me. After 3 suspension iterations, I just called it quits.

I'm not trying to toot any car's horn, but just point out that the F80 isn't for everyone. I think I would have a much better time with it if I was in California with nicer roads or tracked often enough to experience the performance. I understand that you want to experience the car you paid for 12 months out of 12 months. And for me, the F80 was not hooking well enough 9 months out of the year to "deal" with it the other 3 months. An AWD car with snow tires is infinitely more fun in the Midwest winter and the other 3-4 months with less than ideal weather conditions while also being fun in the summer. I ended up in a Subaru so I wouldn't care about it being outside, but the concept is the same for the RS3.

I don't regret buying my M3. It was a bucket list car for me. And if I never owned it, I'd still be thinking "what if" to this day. But if I had a month to drive the F80 and the RS3 and was honest with myself, I would probably have gone with the RS3 just based on year round accessible power on the street, which is my entire use case.

[Mr Pete]

Originally Posted by M3_Dylan_

Cheers. I think in Columbus we have less harsh winters than Chicago. As long as I don't have any white knuckle moments and can comfortably drive north on the highway in the winter to Cleveland to visit family once and awhile I would be satisfied

You should be fine. I used to live in NE Ohio once upon a time ago, and drove a rwd car with shitty winter tires. They do a good job of plowing and salting. Your biggest concern would be the salt getting on your car.

[wam22]

It is fine for light snow with winter tires but anything more than 2-3 inches I wouldn't recommend it. I had a B9 S5 with winter tires (Michellins) and it could go through anything. I used the same set of tires on the M4 this winter and I ended up having to take a Cayenne from work when there was heavy snow. It would just stuck get stuck trying to go in/out of my alley in Chicago due to deep snow and other people were just too unpredictable.

[bvrider1]

Hey OP - If you are interest I am selling a set of snow tires that I got with my F80 purchase.

[FTLC]

Originally Posted by ntg44

I'll start off by saying I do not represent the majority on this forum (not even close), but since you asked...

After 3.5 years of ownership, I sold my M3 in June of 2020. Purely for personal reasons, had nothing to do with the car, but moreso needing the garage space. The M3 was too nice to park outside; I couldn't get myself to do it.

That being said, 6 months later I ended up in a 2020 WRX STI. Odd decision if you ask anyone on here, and I will admit a lot of it was a nostalgic/rose tinted glasses purchase. But after 6 months of ownership, it opened my eyes to a few things about the M3 that I was otherwise in denial when I owned it.

First and foremost, I want a fun street car. No plans or time to track, so keep this in mind. The biggest issues with my base M3 were the suspension tuning and traction control intervention. Shock rebound was awful and the rear end felt floaty, which triggered TC way more than it should have. Combined with a way too aggressive TC programming to begin with, and it kind of ruins the whole 400whp RWD experience in my opinion. I cannot stand having power that's not accessible or that's fighting me along the way. I have a lead foot and I do not care about modulation. I just want to go fast and have fun when the situation permits. RE-71Rs helped, but not enough.

I was able to fix the TC issue with coil-overs, but they were so stiff that they ruined the ride so it was a lose/lose for me. After 3 suspension iterations, I just called it quits.

I'm not trying to toot any car's horn, but just point out that the F80 isn't for everyone. I think I would have a much better time with it if I was in California with nicer roads or tracked often enough to experience the performance. I understand that you want to experience the car you paid for 12 months out of 12 months. And for me, the F80 was not hooking well enough 9 months out of the year to "deal" with it the other 3 months. An AWD car with snow tires is infinitely more fun in the Midwest winter and the other 3-4 months with less than ideal weather conditions while also being fun in the summer. I ended up in a Subaru so I wouldn't care about it being outside, but the concept is the same for the RS3.

I don't regret buying my M3. It was a bucket list car for me. And if I never owned it, I'd still be thinking "what if" to this day. But if I had a month to drive the F80 and the RS3 and was honest with myself, I would probably have gone with the RS3 just based on year round accessible power on the street, which is my entire use case.

Thanks so much for your input! Both of my cars are on coilovers and the M3 occasionally sees a track or autocross event so you can imagine they are pretty stiff but I'm a young guy and don't mind too much. It is also a bucket list car for me, I remember seeing the E92 come out and that being a bucket list car.. which got replaced by the f8x when that was released (no offense E92 guys, they are still incredible cars). That combined with it probably being one of the last manual and gas powered cars really pushes me to want to do it now. I have always been lucky enough to own 2 cars, but having 2 RWD M cars is just kinda unpractical. I don't plan on living in Ohio my whole life so if I don't buy one soon maybe I can down the road. Or maybe I'll be able to afford 3 cars one day (track, summer, winter)... isn't that the dream LMAO

[FTLC]

Originally Posted by wam22

It is fine for light snow with winter tires but anything more than 2-3 inches I wouldn't recommend it. I had a B9 S5 with winter tires (Michellins) and it could go through anything. I used the same set of tires on the M4 this winter and I ended up having to take a Cayenne from work when there was heavy snow. It would just stuck get stuck trying to go in/out of my alley in Chicago due to deep snow and other people were just too unpredictable.

That is one thing I always have to consider is the lack of driving skills in the snow of other drivers I plan on making the purchase right into 2022 as soon as the weather breaks so I guess I will see how much snowfall the city gets. Based on google, it gets 28 inches a year, and based on records it usually gets more than 2-3 inches in a single day AT LEAST once a year

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by ntg44

I'll start off by saying I do not represent the majority on this forum (not even close), but since you asked...

After 3.5 years of ownership, I sold my M3 in June of 2020. Purely for personal reasons, had nothing to do with the car, but moreso needing the garage space. The M3 was too nice to park outside; I couldn't get myself to do it.

That being said, 6 months later I ended up in a 2020 WRX STI. Odd decision if you ask anyone on here, and I will admit a lot of it was a nostalgic/rose tinted glasses purchase. But after 6 months of ownership, it opened my eyes to a few things about the M3 that I was otherwise in denial when I owned it.

First and foremost, I want a fun street car. No plans or time to track, so keep this in mind. The biggest issues with my base M3 were the suspension tuning and traction control intervention. Shock rebound was awful and the rear end felt floaty, which triggered TC way more than it should have. Combined with a way too aggressive TC programming to begin with, and it kind of ruins the whole 400whp RWD experience in my opinion. I cannot stand having power that's not accessible or that's fighting me along the way. I have a lead foot and I do not care about modulation. I just want to go fast and have fun when the situation permits. RE-71Rs helped, but not enough.

I was able to fix the TC issue with coil-overs, but they were so stiff that they ruined the ride so it was a lose/lose for me. After 3 suspension iterations, I just called it quits.

I'm not trying to toot any car's horn, but just point out that the F80 isn't for everyone. I think I would have a much better time with it if I was in California with nicer roads or tracked often enough to experience the performance. I understand that you want to experience the car you paid for 12 months out of 12 months. And for me, the F80 was not hooking well enough 9 months out of the year to "deal" with it the other 3 months. An AWD car with snow tires is infinitely more fun in the Midwest winter and the other 3-4 months with less than ideal weather conditions while also being fun in the summer. I ended up in a Subaru so I wouldn't care about it being outside, but the concept is the same for the RS3.

I don't regret buying my M3. It was a bucket list car for me. And if I never owned it, I'd still be thinking "what if" to this day. But if I had a month to drive the F80 and the RS3 and was honest with myself, I would probably have gone with the RS3 just based on year round accessible power on the street, which is my entire use case.

I've had my F80 CP since 2017 and have had neither the suspension nor the TC issues you faced with your M3. You'll surely get better traction with the Quattro RS3 but it's based on the same MQB platform as a VW Golf, so I'd expect it to be inferior to the M3 in most every other way.

To the OP, I use Bridgestone Blizzaks and it's generally fine but if you're caught in a snow or ice storm it could get dicey if you need to go uphill even if it's only a slight incline. I'd imagine snow storms are rare in Columbus, thus you should be fine - but snow tires are a must.

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

I've had my F80 CP since 2017 and have had neither the suspension nor the TC issues you faced with your M3. You'll surely get better traction with the Quattro RS3 but it's based on the same MQB platform as a VW Golf, so I'd expect it to be inferior to the M3 in most every other way.

To the OP, I use Bridgestone Blizzaks and it's generally fine but if you're caught in a snow or ice storm it could get dicey if you need to go uphill even if it's only a slight incline. I'd imagine snow storms are rare in Columbus, thus you should be fine - but snow tires are a must.

And maybe that's the problem - I had a MY17 base model. I chose the base model because it was my favorite for many options-related reasons. But I've never driven a comp or CS, so I'll never know. All I know is that out of all the cars I've owned, I thought the M3 would have the most sorted suspension out of the box, and it was actually towards the bottom when it came to street driving. It was the only car I felt like I had to try to modify the suspension to see if I could get it to behave like it should. Bilstein B16 Damptronic fixed the rebound and TC issues, but it made the ride so stiff that I threw in the towel and installed MP HAS and left it that way.

The F80 is a great car, and has many merits. I just don't think it was the best fit for me, and I didn't love it enough to keep it for my intended use case. Still glad I had the chance to experience owning one though.

[wam22]

Originally Posted by M3_Dylan_

That is one thing I always have to consider is the lack of driving skills in the snow of other drivers I plan on making the purchase right into 2022 as soon as the weather breaks so I guess I will see how much snowfall the city gets. Based on google, it gets 28 inches a year, and based on records it usually gets more than 2-3 inches in a single day AT LEAST once a year

If it was just me on the road, I would be fine around Chicago. I got stuck once because someone parked halfway in the street on a corner. So I had to go around and into a snow bank. Luckily someone helped pushed me out but I was there for a solid 10 minutes even after digging myself out. Same thing with the alleys. Most of my neighbors did not shovel and when heavy SUVs created deep tracks, the M4 turns into a plow during moderate snow since the tracks are 3-4 inches deep and now 2-4 more inches added on top of the layer in between the tracks. I will be looking for a beater AWD vehicle come November.

[FTLC]

Originally Posted by wam22

If it was just me on the road, I would be fine around Chicago. I got stuck once because someone parked halfway in the street on a corner. So I had to go around and into a snow bank. Luckily someone helped pushed me out but I was there for a solid 10 minutes even after digging myself out. Same thing with the alleys. Most of my neighbors did not shovel and when heavy SUVs created deep tracks, the M4 turns into a plow during moderate snow since the tracks are 3-4 inches deep and now 2-4 more inches added on top of the layer in between the tracks. I will be looking for a beater AWD vehicle come November.

If you had to only pick one would you have picked the B9 S5 or M4? Again, I doubt the winters and snow are nearly as bad in Columbus than Chicago, but from my experience every now and then we will have a terrible winter season or at least a few terrible days.