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      09-25-2018, 04:37 PM   #1
Goody4
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Handling compared to E90 M3 and F30 340i

Those of you who have owned any previous generation of M3, could you compare the F80's handling to the older model(s)?

Also, is the F80 fine as is, or does the upgraded package to 444 HP add tighter, more "feeling" steering? Not really talking about the CS, however.

Anyone own(ed) a 340i with the adaptive suspension care to compare that car to his F80's handling?

I'd kind of like to hear about other makes as well, particularly Porsche (also within the same price range).

But I'll take what I can get.
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      09-25-2018, 07:05 PM   #2
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Not sure if helpful but coming from 2015 435 with standard suspension. Totally different driving experience.
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      09-25-2018, 07:11 PM   #3
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There are numerous threads debating the merits of the competition package you should be able to easily locate. (Inevitably, this will turn into another one.)
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      09-25-2018, 07:12 PM   #4
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Currently owns both 340i M Pack II and F80 ZCP(both on PS4S 20s), and drove a M4 without ZCP
The F80 ZCP handles way better, sharper steering, way less body roll. It just feels planted on the ground way more than the 340 does(the F80 has MP HAS, 340 has Dinan springs and bumpstops)
And the comp pack definitely worth it!!
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      09-25-2018, 07:17 PM   #5
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I had a 340 xdrive loaner but I'm not sure it had adaptive suspension. These cars are very far apart. In sport mode the handling on the 340 felt bouncy, the steering felt light and imprecise, and I hated how it looked inside and out. The exhaust was so silenced, I couldn't tell WOT from a cruising rpm. A very bland car overall and it was white to complete the vanilla picture.
It did beat the X2 loaner I got next, also white. That one was an ergonomical disaster.
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      09-25-2018, 07:41 PM   #6
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I have driven them all.

Handling: E30 M3 > E36 M3 > E46 M3 > E92 M3 = F82 M4

Power: F82 M4 > E92 M3 > E46 M3 > E36 M3 > E30 M3
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      09-25-2018, 07:49 PM   #7
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As far as M cars go, I've had -

2005 E46 M3, manual
2008 E92 M3, manual
2008 E92 M3, manual
2018 F80 M3 ZCP, manual (current)

However, I most recently came from a 2016 F30 340i xDrive with MPPSK, Track Handling Package (which includes adaptive suspension), M-Sport Package, and Dinan lowering springs w bump stops.... actually, the car was loaded.... 19" 442M, ZTP, ZLP, ZCW, ZDA, ZDB, etc...

From a "handling" perspective, I only have 1,500 miles on the F80 but I can absolutely say that despite me driving the 340i with all the goodies it was nowhere close to "handling" like any of my M cars. Yes, I know, mine was xDrive, but the lowering springs did noticeably improve the understeer of the AWD...

There is a very big difference, IMO, between M cars and non-M cars... M package cars don't really count...

Seems like your question is if there's a noted difference between a maxed out 340i M-Sport and an M3... your answer is yes and very much worth it
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      09-25-2018, 10:10 PM   #8
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Had an F30 335i M Sport with MPPK, M Adaptive Suspension, MP BBK, MPE, 20" 405M wheels etc. The F80 ZCP I just took delivery of blows the doors of my old 335i in every category, particularly the steering and the suspension. Not even the same animal. The F30 had the worst steering of any sport oriented BMW I have ever driven. The suspension was ok at best. I do get amused by the commentators and YouTube pundits complaining about the heavy steering on the F80 yet at the same time harking back to the BMWs of old. My old stripper E46 335i had much better steering than the F30 and was heavy as all hell. Stock base suspension was also much better on the E46 stripper. It's these things that make a BMW IMHO. F80 ZCP has that feel back. For me, this is the way to go.
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      09-25-2018, 10:23 PM   #9
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OP, I think you should not compare a Porsche to an M car. It's unfair given that the Porsche's (assuming you're not talking about Macan or Cayenne or Panny) start with a proper sport Chassis where as the M just builds on the Chassis of a 3 series. That's where the problem starts and ends. BMW does not have a single car in the line up now that has an actual proper sport Chassis. I say this and I am one of the biggest BMW fans. Unfortunately, you will only understand what I mean if and when you drive a Porsche. I have driven a 997 S, 991.2 GTS and a 991.2 GT3 and I can tell you these cars are from a totally different planet, let alone they are more expensive. But you can get a proper 997.1 turbo which is crazy fast for cheaper than a new M3.

M
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      09-26-2018, 01:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.mba View Post
OP, I think you should not compare a Porsche to an M car. It's unfair given that the Porsche's (assuming you're not talking about Macan or Cayenne or Panny) start with a proper sport Chassis where as the M just builds on the Chassis of a 3 series. That's where the problem starts and ends. BMW does not have a single car in the line up now that has an actual proper sport Chassis. I say this and I am one of the biggest BMW fans. Unfortunately, you will only understand what I mean if and when you drive a Porsche. I have driven a 997 S, 991.2 GTS and a 991.2 GT3 and I can tell you these cars are from a totally different planet, let alone they are more expensive. But you can get a proper 997.1 turbo which is crazy fast for cheaper than a new M3.

M

I see this posted all the time and while true....

It is also the reason the M-cars have the practicality of a 3-series.
Large trunk, large full-size backseat, etc...

That has always been a draw to the Mcars, they can be a very practical DD.

I agree that the Porsche is the better sports car, but the practicality/sportiness combo of an M is what makes it a compelling package.

Just my $.02
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      09-27-2018, 04:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
I see this posted all the time and while true....

It is also the reason the M-cars have the practicality of a 3-series.
Large trunk, large full-size backseat, etc...

That has always been a draw to the Mcars, they can be a very practical DD.

I agree that the Porsche is the better sports car, but the practicality/sportiness combo of an M is what makes it a compelling package.

Just my $.02
Yes I totally agree that the M3 is the more liveable car if you need a back seat and a sizeable trunk. However, I was merely responding to the OPs remark on comparing a Porsche with the M car line up. I think that if you're looking at which car is the sportier one, then the answer should be resounding and clear. Porsche's will win in that department any day, every day.

M
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      09-28-2018, 05:02 PM   #12
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Having driven all of them, there is no doubt, that the F80 outperforms all of its predecessors in terms of power and handling. The ZCP package is well worth the money as well. So are carbon ceramic brakes if you intend on hitting the track.
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      09-30-2018, 02:30 AM   #13
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340i with M sport, adaptive and whatever else you want to add to it handles like utter shit in comparison to the F80/82.

Speaking from extensive experience.
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      09-30-2018, 02:39 AM   #14
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As to the cars you ask about. My F80 on pssive suspension objectively handles better than my E90 M3 on passive suspension no doubt. Is it overall a more fun car to drive? Nope, but not bad either, the chassis is the relative to the E90 the best thing about it.
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      10-01-2018, 05:43 PM   #15
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So I don't have either anymore, but I had a '16 340i xDrive with the Msport and Track pkg - one of those pkgs had the adaptive suspension - don't remember which. Had that for a year - 18000 miles or so.

And then I Forrest Gumped my way into a '17 F80 (non-ZCP) and had that for about a year as well (maybe 15k miles on that one). Ended up getting rid of the M3 under duress (wife lost her job and I didn't want to hold on to such an expensive car while we discussed budget tightening).

Since you asked specifically about handling, I won't go into all the reasons why I miss the M3 every day, and really don't miss the 340 all that much - because those really don't have much to do with the handling.

Seems like most will tell you that the ZCP is greatly improved over the stock M3 suspension, and I've only done a couple of stints in the ZCP - so I can't comment as knowledgeably about that pkg.

But I can say this - and I'm going to get flamed I'm sure for this:
The M3 may have measurable handling limits that are far superior to the 340 in terms of grip and speed through obstacle courses, etc. But that absolutely didn't make it more fun to drive at 6/10ths on a back road on the way to work every day than the 340 was to do the same drive. In fact, I thought they both suffered from the same lack of "feel" in hindsight. The handling is probably the biggest reason (aside from fiscal cautiousness) that I didn't come back to the F80 after my wife found a better job later - I just kept thinking - 'do I really want to pay this much for a car that is less fun to drive than my daughter's '14 Mini Cooper?'

That's not to say I liked the 340 better than the M3 - not true at all. But in terms of that one thing - Handling, I don't think the M3 was really any better to drive reasonably than the 340. Again I recognize that it's a different tool for a different job, but I wouldn't upgrade from the 340 for handling's sake. For the specialness, the extra power, the looks, the crazy effortless speed, YES. But not for handling.

The M3 also tramlined mercilessly on back roads, and the steering was too heavy for no reason that I could figure out. And I couldn't tell exactly where my right side wheel was on really tight backroads in either the 340 or the M3. Which didn't inspire confidence for me. In the Mini and later my Golf R, it's a night and day difference how much more communication it seems like I can get from the front wheels.

For me, I ended up with a '18 Golf R which I think handles better than either of my BMWs did, but not quite as good as my daughter's Mini. It's not in the same league with the M3 in terms of everything else, however. And that's why I'm still thinking about the F80 and still looking for one in Tanzanite Blue with a 6MT

So in summary - I liked the 340 a lot, and I LOVED the M3. But I wouldn't consider the handling an upgrade beyond just numbers alone.

Just my 2 cents.
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