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      10-22-2018, 01:38 PM   #1
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Is a 911T a good complement to my M4 CS?

I have been looking at the 911T for some time. I know it's not an NA engine Pcar, but according to many reviewers its pretty fast, sounds good, is fun to drive, reasonably priced, ample feedback, and has a back to basics approach. I would buy a manual version if I were to decide and rear steering. My only gripe are the brakes which are not even the S brakes and I'm not sure if getting the ceramics make sense (please don't turn this into a ceramic vs. steel brake thread)

This is a fairly complete review:


Has anyone driven one on a twisty road? What are your thoughts.

Hera another initial review:
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      10-22-2018, 02:14 PM   #2
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I'm interested in this question too but more so to replace my F80 when the time comes. Always wanted a 911...
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      10-22-2018, 02:24 PM   #3
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I'm interested in this question too but more so to replace my F80 when the time comes. Always wanted a 911...
Have you test driven it?
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      10-22-2018, 02:35 PM   #4
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my $0.02 is its too close to your current car.

F80 m3 sedan + GT series Porsche would be better, in my opinion, as would an SUV which can tow, and a 997 modified for club racing

Not sure what your going to gain with 2 street cars with similar acceleration potential and similar 2 dr / 4 seats shape
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      10-22-2018, 03:53 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
my $0.02 is its too close to your current car.

F80 m3 sedan + GT series Porsche would be better, in my opinion, as would an SUV which can tow, and a 997 modified for club racing

Not sure what your going to gain with 2 street cars with similar acceleration potential and similar 2 dr / 4 seats shape
Thanks!
Not sure... the driving experience of a Porsche is very different than an M4. I love my CS but I driven 911 and 911S (997.2 version) on track and there is something very unique en particular about the feeling of driving a Porsche. Their is a connected and kart like feeling that is very unique to Pcars. From the reviews the background I'm getting is that the T driving experience and feels more Porsche of old than the typical 991.2s. Also they all say it's faster than the normal 911.

The CS incredibly competent and fast, and I would not trade it for anything (I love it!!), but it still feels somewhat large in size to me. So having a smaller "sportier" pcar with a traditional manual sounds appealing to me as a complement.
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      10-22-2018, 05:34 PM   #6
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992 debuts in Nov at LA Auto Show. I’d hold off on any 991.2 purchase.
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      10-22-2018, 06:02 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
Thanks!
Not sure... the driving experience of a Porsche is very different than an M4. I love my CS but I driven 911 and 911S (997.2 version) on track and there is something very unique en particular about the feeling of driving a Porsche. Their is a connected and kart like feeling that is very unique to Pcars. From the reviews the background I'm getting is that the T driving experience and feels more Porsche of old than the typical 991.2s. Also they all say it's faster than the normal 911.

The CS incredibly competent and fast, and I would not trade it for anything (I love it!!), but it still feels somewhat large in size to me. So having a smaller "sportier" pcar with a traditional manual sounds appealing to me as a complement.
You know what feels really kart like too? a cheap Miata that's 2400lb including a big V8 in the front, with no power assist of any kind. Or a Radical, or any other of a number of actual track cars.

I dunno, I loved driving by brother's GT4 at mosport but it is a very expensive car and not clear to me its more fun than an actual track car

I've seen some posts that a stock 991.2 GTS is similar or slightly slower in times to a club racing prepared e36m. That's either a great win for a street car, or a lot of $ to spend to not be faster than a 20+ year old modded car, depending on your perspective and love for pcar brand

full disclosure on bias: I'm going through a phase of not tracking street cars right now, and will be selling my 911 turbo soon
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      10-22-2018, 07:52 PM   #8
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Please note that if you spec the T with a PDK, you lose the Porsche Torque Vectoring, Limited Slip Mechanical Diff.

Get the T if you want a low spec 911 with a Manual. It is not as fast as the f8x even with pdk, the numbers are close, with the 911 pull off the line faster to 60 with rear engine traction, but losing speed past 60, to match the f8x at the 1/4 mile.

It is indeed awesome, I drove test drove one, the loss of sound deadening and the lightweight glass makes road noise a real part of the experience - makes everything more visceral and the car also includes pasm sport which is another 10 mm lower than the regular 911- great car.
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      10-22-2018, 08:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
992 debuts in Nov at LA Auto Show. I’d hold off on any 991.2 purchase.
992 specs and information is pretty much out there. The pricing is going to be between 5-10% higher depending on the model. Porsche is making the PDK standard and raising the prices doing so- while the base pricing won't look as much of a difference, adding options like the current 991.2 will make the 992 closer to 10% more.

also the 992 is coming in with an 8 spd pdk, being smaller than the current 7, the space is ready for a hybrid motor- which is going to be released on the 992.2, the problem is that the 992.1 will be a sort of filler model with a larger size chassis, and similar spec 3.0 engine as the 991.2. The base model will get a nice bump and the S will get to 450 hp, but the performance improvement should be nominal, with the new car weighing the same or slightly more, and the hp increase to be 30-40 hp.

The interior of the 992 is also going to mimic the panamera gauges, as well as center console- Not sure if you have stepped in the current pan, it is very glossy, hard plastic- with haptic buttons that you cannot see while driving.
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      10-22-2018, 09:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
992 debuts in Nov at LA Auto Show. I'd hold off on any 991.2 purchase.
992 specs and information is pretty much out there. The pricing is going to be between 5-10% higher depending on the model. Porsche is making the PDK standard and raising the prices doing so- while the base pricing won't look as much of a difference, adding options like the current 991.2 will make the 992 closer to 10% more.

also the 992 is coming in with an 8 spd pdk, being smaller than the current 7, the space is ready for a hybrid motor- which is going to be released on the 992.2, the problem is that the 992.1 will be a sort of filler model with a larger size chassis, and similar spec 3.0 engine as the 991.2. The base model will get a nice bump and the S will get to 450 hp, but the performance improvement should be nominal, with the new car weighing the same or slightly more, and the hp increase to be 30-40 hp.

The interior of the 992 is also going to mimic the panamera gauges, as well as center console- Not sure if you have stepped in the current pan, it is very glossy, hard plastic- with haptic buttons that you cannot see while driving.
While the 992 S is getting a nice bump in power, I read the base model is only getting a slight 10-15hp bump.
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      10-22-2018, 10:18 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
Please note that if you spec the T with a PDK, you lose the Porsche Torque Vectoring, Limited Slip Mechanical Diff.

Get the T if you want a low spec 911 with a Manual. It is not as fast as the f8x even with pdk, the numbers are close, with the 911 pull off the line faster to 60 with rear engine traction, but losing speed past 60, to match the f8x at the 1/4 mile.

It is indeed awesome, I drove test drove one, the loss of sound deadening and the lightweight glass makes road noise a real part of the experience - makes everything more visceral and the car also includes pasm sport which is another 10 mm lower than the regular 911- great car.
Yes, manual please
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      10-22-2018, 10:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
992 specs and information is pretty much out there. The pricing is going to be between 5-10% higher depending on the model. Porsche is making the PDK standard and raising the prices doing so- while the base pricing won't look as much of a difference, adding options like the current 991.2 will make the 992 closer to 10% more.

also the 992 is coming in with an 8 spd pdk, being smaller than the current 7, the space is ready for a hybrid motor- which is going to be released on the 992.2, the problem is that the 992.1 will be a sort of filler model with a larger size chassis, and similar spec 3.0 engine as the 991.2. The base model will get a nice bump and the S will get to 450 hp, but the performance improvement should be nominal, with the new car weighing the same or slightly more, and the hp increase to be 30-40 hp.
The chassis isn't larger. 992 is built on a modified 991 chassis, but still has the same 96.5 wheelbase. The body length is only gaining an inch. All 992 models will have the Carrera 4 wide body, which will allow the base models to have increased track widths over 991 models. I look forward to the evolution of their turbo motors. They will only get better, power numbers and throttle response(redesigned intercoolers, higher flow exhaust manifolds, higher compression). I have zero interest in hybrid, so couldn't care less about 992.2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
The interior of the 992 is also going to mimic the panamera gauges, as well as center console- Not sure if you have stepped in the current pan, it is very glossy, hard plastic- with haptic buttons that you cannot see while driving.
Yes, been in a new Panamera and Cayenne. I very much like the new interiors.

If I was remotely interested in a 991, I would go 991.1(GTS preferably). They will start to hold their value, being the last NA base models. The turbo era will only be that much better in the 992.

Last edited by hellrotm; 10-22-2018 at 10:53 PM..
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      10-22-2018, 11:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
I have been looking at the 911T for some time. I know it's not an NA engine Pcar, but according to many reviewers its pretty fast, sounds good, is fun to drive, reasonably priced, ample feedback, and has a back to basics approach. I would buy a manual version if I were to decide and rear steering. My only gripe are the brakes which are not even the S brakes and I'm not sure if getting the ceramics make sense (please don't turn this into a ceramic vs. steel brake thread)

This is a fairly complete review:


Has anyone driven one on a twisty road? What are your thoughts.

Hera another initial review:
The base steel brakes are incredibly good. If you want more stopping power simply upgrade to the larger diameter Giro Disc rotors...
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      10-22-2018, 11:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
Please note that if you spec the T with a PDK, you lose the Porsche Torque Vectoring, Limited Slip Mechanical Diff.

Get the T if you want a low spec 911 with a Manual. It is not as fast as the f8x even with pdk, the numbers are close, with the 911 pull off the line faster to 60 with rear engine traction, but losing speed past 60, to match the f8x at the 1/4 mile.

It is indeed awesome, I drove test drove one, the loss of sound deadening and the lightweight glass makes road noise a real part of the experience - makes everything more visceral and the car also includes pasm sport which is another 10 mm lower than the regular 911- great car.
A PDK Carrera .2 will do an 11.9 1/4 at 118 according to car and driver. I’m betting the T is slightly faster and most F8X’s aren’t that fast.
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      10-22-2018, 11:46 PM   #15
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Consider a Lotus Evora, it will blow you away. You can find a good one in the 40s or 50s and you an get a 430 with more $$. Not the same quality interior and design as a Porsche but from a driving standpoint, it's as engaging and go-karty as it gets. Feels much more unique too. I had a Lotus Elise and regret selling it. A 911 feels quite heavy in comparison.

Test drive it!
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      10-22-2018, 11:52 PM   #16
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A PDK Carrera .2 will do an 11.9 1/4 at 118 according to car and driver. I’m betting the T is slightly faster and most F8X’s aren’t that fast.
Car and Driver

2015 m3
0-60 3.8 seconds
1/4 mile: 12.0 @ 119 mph

2017 911 base
0-60 3.4 seconds
1/4 mile 11.9 @ 118 mph

both are the same 0-100 at 8.5 seconds.

they are nearly identical. the T is only about 30 lbs less than the base 911, less than 1% of the weight. Porsche themselves say both the 911 base and T have the same 0-60 times with the same sport chrono launch control.

As you can see, the 911 loses the acceleration advantage (rear engine, better launch control) past 60, with the M3 starting to gain speed and match it at the 1/4 mile, where the 911 loses the .4 second advantage it had at 60.

This is merely one metric of comparison, everyone knows the 911 spanks the m3 on any track.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ic-test-review

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ra-test-review
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      10-23-2018, 12:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
The chassis isn't larger. 992 is built on a modified 991 chassis, but still has the same 96.5 wheelbase. The body length is only gaining an inch. All 992 models will have the Carrera 4 wide body, which will allow the base models to have increased track widths over 991 models. I look forward to the evolution of their turbo motors. They will only get better, power numbers and throttle response(redesigned intercoolers, higher flow exhaust manifolds, higher compression). I have zero interest in hybrid, so couldn't care less about 992.2.


Yes, been in a new Panamera and Cayenne. I very much like the new interiors.

If I was remotely interested in a 991, I would go 991.1(GTS preferably). They will start to hold their value, being the last NA base models. The turbo era will only be that much better in the 992.
You are only looking at the wheelbase, every other measure has increased.

Base 991.2 vs base 992:

Length (front overhang) increased by 1"
Front Track increased by 1.6"
Rear Track widebody increased by 1.7"

This is a modified, enlarged 991.2 chassis, with revised engine mounts moved a bit forward. The 992 is already designed for electrification and Porsche needed more room, for the future electric motors and batteries, and reinforced chassis, with the added 300-500lbs of weight.
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      10-23-2018, 12:28 AM   #18
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The 911 T seems to be the hot ticket right now and worth taking a look at.

I traded my 2015 M4 in for a 991.1 GTS and have been really impressed with it especially on the track. Even though it’s “slower” than the M4 in a drag race for sure, it’s way quicker on a track. I’ve been 2-5 seconds faster per lap in it vs. the M4. The Porsche is stock except for Cup2 tires, while I used to use R888’s and track pads on the M4.

nicknaz: fully track prepped E36M not a fair comparison for either cars, but my Porsche drives more similar to the E36 than my M4 did. Lap times are pretty similar in my hands between the two cars, although the e36 is more consistent.
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      10-23-2018, 05:10 AM   #19
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The 911 T seems to be the hot ticket right now and worth taking a look at.

I traded my 2015 M4 in for a 991.1 GTS and have been really impressed with it especially on the track. Even though it’s “slower” than the M4 in a drag race for sure, it’s way quicker on a track. I’ve been 2-5 seconds faster per lap in it vs. the M4. The Porsche is stock except for Cup2 tires, while I used to use R888’s and track pads on the M4.

nicknaz: fully track prepped E36M not a fair comparison for either cars, but my Porsche drives more similar to the E36 than my M4 did. Lap times are pretty similar in my hands between the two cars, although the e36 is more consistent.
I was just trying to make the point that spending $20k in options on a 911 T to get LWB, Aerokit, pccb etc, thinking it will make a "gt3 lite" might not be a good way to go.

Can get a track prepped e36m for the same money as those options, and keep the 911 T as a street car without those options.
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      10-23-2018, 08:29 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by CachacoF80 View Post
Consider a Lotus Evora, it will blow you away. You can find a good one in the 40s or 50s and you an get a 430 with more $$. Not the same quality interior and design as a Porsche but from a driving standpoint, it's as engaging and go-karty as it gets. Feels much more unique too. I had a Lotus Elise and regret selling it. A 911 feels quite heavy in comparison.

Test drive it!
Not really a current lotus guy (loved the Esprit though). I don't know, really like the T because of what it tries to achieve. I see myself as having a small car collection in the future and the T seems to fit the bill in combo with my CS. Had a pristine 9000kms e46 M3 which I sold 2 years ago and regretted it. The other option is to buy a used GT4 and import it to my country. There are a lot of used low miles ones... people thought it would be the only NA GT4 ever and kept them with almost no use and apparently the new GT4 is rumored to be NA again, but this time supposedly with a detuned 4.0 GT3 engine. If that's the case... that new GT4 would also fit the bill for my "collection"
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      10-23-2018, 08:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
Not really a current lotus guy (loved the Esprit though). I don't know, really like the T because of what it tries to achieve. I see myself as having a small car collection in the future and the T seems to fit the bill in combo with my CS. Had a pristine 9000kms e46 M3 which I sold 2 years ago and regretted it. The other option is to buy a used GT4 and import it to my country. There are a lot of used low miles ones... people thought it would be the only NA GT4 ever and kept them with almost no use and apparently the new GT4 is rumored to be NA again, but this time supposedly with a detuned 4.0 GT3 engine. If that's the case... that new GT4 would also fit the bill for my "collection"
Yeah a NA GT4 would definitely be more "special" than any 991.2, even the T. There's just something about how the NA engines sound and drive. One of the biggest reasons I got my 991.1 GTS. I dyno'ed mine for time trials and its absolutely the most beautiful dyno sheet I've ever seen for a track car. Torque is low, but the graph is as flat as Kansas from 3500 to redline. Horsepower builds steadily and consistently all the way up to the redline which is its peak.

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WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889
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      10-23-2018, 09:51 PM   #22
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The answer to your thread title is no.

The 911T is a great substitute for your M4cs
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