11-27-2013, 06:32 AM | #67 |
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Call me a luddite, but I will go with the MT. You can make all of the technical comparisons/tradeoffs you want but for me it comes down to driver involvement. It's a zen thing.
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11-27-2013, 08:57 AM | #68 |
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11-27-2013, 09:27 AM | #69 |
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Going with DCT
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11-30-2013, 10:42 PM | #70 |
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I think there is 10-15% of folks telling a bit of a fib here.
What is it, does MT have more "street cred". For the E92 M3 the split between MT and M-DCT in North America was almost precisely 50-50 (link). I strongly suspect it will be close to the same with the M4. For those that really care about going the fastest possible (in a given car, of course) don't forget that a M-DCT is equivalent to at least 20 hp, perhaps as much as 40 compared to a MT. If the driver in the MT can not shift supremely fast (most of us) the number is closer to 40 hp.
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11-30-2013, 11:38 PM | #71 | |
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You are missing a key point to the benefit of the separate parking drum brake. I see you track your car, so it should be useful to you. With a combined parking brake that applies the brake on the rear disc through the caliper, you cannot use the hand brake after a session on the track. The hot pad material will put some deposits on the disc that will cause brake shudder. Not so with the separate drum brake. You can use the parking brake even if the discs and pads are hot. I do it all the time and never had an issue. You don't need an electronic parking brake to squeeze the rear calipers. Most manufacturers simply use a mechanical cable to link the lever to the caliper. Further, I am not even sure it would be legal to use the same hydraulic system for the parking/emergency brake. The whole point of the secondary brake system is to have a back up in the case of a hydraulic failure of the main braking system. Last edited by CanAutM3; 12-01-2013 at 10:26 AM.. |
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12-01-2013, 02:37 AM | #72 | |
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12-01-2013, 10:21 AM | #73 | |
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For those who understand going with a 6-speed is a performance detriment yet prefer the old-school experience, the manual still makes sense. For guys like me who put a premium on performance and like the ability to throw it into Auto-mode for traffic, you will pry the DCT out of my cold, dead hands. To me, the DCT makes me drive the car harder - I want to push it more as I enjoy those perfect downshifts. |
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12-01-2013, 10:49 AM | #74 | |
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It's not the same hydraulic system. It's an electric actuator motor on the caliper that forces the pad to engage with a clamping force.
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12-01-2013, 10:53 AM | #75 | |
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12-01-2013, 12:24 PM | #76 | |
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Like Porsche said, I like manuals, but I like winning/being as fast as possible more. |
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12-01-2013, 01:36 PM | #77 | |
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I have dct in this m3 and will go 6mt again for my next car (f80 m3). IMO I like manuals with torquier cars and dct with higher revving cars. Dct is perfect for the e9x m3. The 1m for example is perfect with 6mt. I'll also admit that I track my car and am not proficient at heel / toe downshifting. Specifically at high speed tracks in high speed braking zones. Dct makes that a lot more comfortable for me and easier for me to focus on my braking zone and turn in points. With a torque rich turbo motor and auto matching downshifts for the track, manual for me. |
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12-01-2013, 01:50 PM | #78 | |
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The comment about Porsche I heard when someone was interviewing an engineer about the new GT3 and only coming in PDK. It seems natural for a performance car to want to be the fastest it can possibly be, but I totally understand everyone's perspective about the manual being more gratifying and likely to not make as much of a difference with this motor vs the old high revving V8. |
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12-01-2013, 02:00 PM | #79 |
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if i were to get an m4, id get the manual. I have a dct right now and for my next car I'm deff searching for a manual. the dct has amazing shift speed, and the launch control is impressive, but i get really bored not shifting through gears
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12-01-2013, 02:42 PM | #80 |
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MT is an essential part of the driving experience for me, I'll be getting the MT, if I don't get a manual GT3 instead.
BTW, to North America, with your high percentage of MT enthusiasts. The last bastion. I think down this way only 5-10% of new cars have MT now. |
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12-01-2013, 03:26 PM | #81 | |
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12-01-2013, 03:38 PM | #82 | |
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12-01-2013, 04:58 PM | #83 | |
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12-01-2013, 05:53 PM | #84 |
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The jury is out until I test drive both. I was leaning towards a manual with the e92 but after test driving both, the DCT was way more impressive. I expect the 6mt to be more impressive on the new generation, tough decision.
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12-01-2013, 07:02 PM | #85 |
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Only when in D mode, not in S mode. All shifts (less the ones required to prevent stalling) are human controlled.
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12-01-2013, 07:06 PM | #86 |
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Don't forget that DCT is also ideal for cars with turbos and turbo lag because the faster shifts help to keep the turbos "spooled up" and generating boost. It remains to be seen exactly how much lag the new car will have, it will probably be pretty minimal but it WILL have it...
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12-01-2013, 07:19 PM | #87 | |
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What if two M4 models were offered a MT car with (stated) 430 hp and a DCT version with a (stated) 460 hp (of course for the DCT car we would have to detune it's shift programs so that shifts took more like 0.3 - 0.4 seconds because if we didn't then we'd get double the benefit). Which would you choose? This really is the choice you are making. I like to feel "in control", "in touch", "involved", etc. absolutely costs you a significant amount of real effective power. I guess I already know the answer from the MT purists. That of course begs the question of how much would the delta (difference) have to be, 50 hp, 75 hp, no amount of power? The example is a bit unrealistic as well because M-DCT is not a free option.
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12-01-2013, 09:34 PM | #88 |
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Well, that's very scientific. Wouldn't an auto slush box be ideal for a bloated 2 ton boat then? How many F8x M's have you driven before you decided to pontificate about other people's choices?
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