Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by 996ttelise

Gearing and tires could make a difference. Would the Giulia hook up as well 01-60 range with PSSs. I know Rs can make a pretty substantial impact on braking and cornering.

Based on the different tests so far, it seems that the Giulia does indeed launch much better that the M3, very much likely because of the sticky r-compound tires. But it has to be noted that the Giulia-Q also keeps pulling stronger than the M3 even as the speeds build up. So it is not only a question of tires.

Originally Posted by 996ttelise

The Competition Pack is also rolling 20s so the unsprung weight would seem to be a little higher also . . . Unsprung weight can make a difference.

You probably mean "rotating mass" here, as "unsprung weight" has no incidence on acceleration per se.

The mass factor of a wheel-tire combo is about 2X, so even if the 20" wheels on the M3 are a few pounds heavier, it is rather negligible on the grand scheme of things, the Giulia will still have a higher effective mass than the M3 (effective mass takes into account the inertial effect of rotating mass).

[savage.ulm1]

[adc]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The F8X being "underrated" is a myth.

Look at the acceleration numbers, they are very consistent with the power-to-weight ratios of the two cars where the Giulia-Q out-accelerates the M3.

Not sure if you are talking about the regular M3 or the CP, but for the regular M3, the difference in acceleration numbers and trap speed compared to the E90 is a lot more than the advertised 11BHP (414 vs 425).

So yes it is underrated IMO.

So could the Alfa be for all we know. Engines like these can easily achieve this level of power, so who knows...

[adc]

So have lease numbers popped up somewhere?

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by adc

So have lease numbers popped up somewhere?

I was under the impression this car can only be purchased currently. No Leasing.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by adc

Not sure if you are talking about the regular M3 or the CP, but for the regular M3, the difference in acceleration numbers and trap speed compared to the E90 is a lot more than the advertised 11BHP (414 vs 425).

So yes it is underrated IMO.

So could the Alfa be for all we know. Engines like these can easily achieve this level of power, so who knows...

Have you read post #574? There is part of the explanation there. Further, since the S55 has a very broad power plateau, it makes more average power throughout an acceleration run than the S65 and will yield a higher trap speed than just what the peak power difference suggests.

The Giulia-Q is also turbocharged, so it likely has the same behaviors as the M3 in terms of engine rating. The Giulia's power advantage properly reflected in their comparative accelerations.

[MCarRacr07]

Car is almost broken in...weather has not been co-operating...
I am trying to arrange to put my QV on a dyno to see what the real numbers are for it...I will let you know when I am able to do so..
Regards
M

[Doctor///M]

Originally Posted by MCarRacr07

do you have any info about these items?? went to the Mopar site and they don't even have the Alfa listed yet...
Thanks much appreciated
M

Did I miss you posting pictures of your QV? If you didn't please share!!!

[MCarRacr07]

sorry here ya go...

[mc3456]

Originally Posted by adc

So have lease numbers popped up somewhere?

Just over $1,390 month. Slightly over $400 more than an F80, but guaranteed individuality, so that might be worth some extra, but not $400/month. That's just lunacy.

Lease rate is very high, even compared to a loaded Maserati Ghibli. Nice enough car when equipped properly, but Maserati really F'd up by putting the wrong engine in the Ghibli S. Should have been this Guilia QV engine.

[MCarRacr07]

Originally Posted by mc3456

Just over $1,000 month. Slightly more than an F80, but guaranteed individuality, so that might be worth some extra.

Lease rate is a little high, even compared to a loaded Maserati Ghibli. Nice car though. Maserati really F'd up by putting the wrong engine in the Ghibli S. Should have been this Guiia QV engine.

lease rates will be high at first I'm guessing because of the unknown residual values...leases are being done through Fiat/Chrysler I assume.
might do better with a private leasing company...

[m4282]

Well Alfa just announced a coupe version of this set for 2018..... let's see if there additional weight reduction they do. That could be interesting as it can then directly go after an m4 as well as m3

[mc3456]

Originally Posted by MCarRacr07

lease rates will be high at first I'm guessing because of the unknown residual values...leases are being done through Fiat/Chrysler I assume.
might do better with a private leasing company...

Yes, Fiat Chrysler. They are about $375-400/month too high, which is actually worse than I initially expected! Finance rates at banks are about 2% lower, so I imagine it can be leased for less privately too. Personally, I think the Stelvio QV looks even better than the Giulia QV, but the Giulia is still a looker.

[adc]

Alfa QV anecdote, keep the thread going.

Last November I was at VIR and saw this white Giulia QV with manufacturer plates, I thought cool maybe we can run together. Unfortunately it was in a lower group so comparison would have been meaningless.

It was sitting there all by itself in the company of no less than three black Viper ACR's, so I angled my walk in that direction to admire the cars and chat with the owners. Met this interesting guy named Ralph and we had a nice chat, he was running one of the Vipers and his wife the Alfa.

Later in the conversation he mentioned he was design head for FCA and it clicked for me, it was Ralph Giles. I have to say, he couldn't have been more down to earth, enthusiastic, and humble. He is one of us and I tip my hat to him, wish him all the best.

We discussed swapping the cars for a quick head to head comparison, alas the timing of things conspired against it because his wife had to leave earlier.

BTW he said in the industry they call the carbon brakes "journalist brakes" because they impress on first contact, but wear out quickly on track and cost an arm and a leg to replace. He told me all the serious track junkies replace the rotors with steels. Indeed all the Vipers had switched to steel rotors.

[MCarRacr07]

Originally Posted by mc3456

Yes, Fiat Chrysler. They are about $75-100/month too high, but I was actually expecting worse! Finance rates at banks are about 2% lower, so I imagine it can be leased for less privately too. Personally, I think the Stelvio QV looks even better than the Guilia QV.

well as of right now...the initial QV's that were priced as they should have been at MSRP are gone...anything sitting around is probably because of dealer initial mark-up which turned many people off and rightfully so...
my dealer is supposed to get another one next month but did receive 7 of the Ti models..
can't comment on lease number per se as I did not lease.

[Jim B]

Originally Posted by mc3456

Just over $1,000 month. Slightly more than an F80, but guaranteed individuality, so that might be worth some extra.

Lease rate is a little high, even compared to a loaded Maserati Ghibli. Nice car though. Maserati really F'd up by putting the wrong engine in the Ghibli S. Should have been this Guiia QV engine.

Perhaps Maserati should do a Ghibli SS with a Hellcat motor. After all, think of it as an Italian Charger.

[ra2289]

Originally Posted by adc

Alfa QV anecdote, keep the thread going...

That's a pretty f*ing cool story. Awesome that he chatted with you and was "normal" guy so-to-speak.

I can see that about ceramic brakes.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by adc

Alfa QV anecdote...

story! It's comforting to know true enthusiast are still working at car companies

Originally Posted by adc

BTW he said in the industry they call the carbon brakes "journalist brakes" because they impress on first contact, but wear out quickly on track and cost an arm and a leg to replace. He told me all the serious track junkies replace the rotors with steels. Indeed all the Vipers had switched to steel rotors.

[VeloF1]

Just finished about an hour spirited test drive. Initially, set the Alfa to the most aggressive drive setting with with some computer intervention--worried about rear end breaking free,etc. Yet, within 10 mins drove it in "race" mode--no computer intervention-- WOT, high speed cornering etc all very manageable--car nicely balance and sticky tires. Suspension not overly rough; exhaust note a little higher.

Overall, ride/performance very close to M4. Bmw probably finished a bit nicer, more performance settings. The Alfa paddle shifters don't rotate with steering wheel which I'd prefer. Alfa Seems to pull a little stronger at low and mid RPMs. Steering and braking very good. Personally I like the Alfa a bit more than AMG C63s, yet overall I prefer my M4 ( it has MPE and MP coilovers). I like the styling of the Alfa yet that's very subjective. Surprisingly good performer and looker.

[mc3456]

I love my F80, but there is no question that Alfa is going to steal significant sales from BMW. The price of regular Guilia Ti is extremely competitive with BMW.

In addition, the Guilia QV will gain a pretty good following of people who want to be different. Even though the M3 is amazing to drive, people get tired of the same old thing, even if they are crazy to think that way. The Guilia QV offers a very competitive fresh take on top level small sport sedans.

To me, the ATS-V is a goner, the Jag XE is an after thought, and BMW is now playing catch up to create space between itself and it's competitors. However, competition is not a bad thing to spur on innovation.

[Jim B]

The Alfa won't be available with 6MT in the US. That, alone, kills the deal for me.

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by Jim B

The Alfa won't be available with 6MT in the US. That, alone, kills the deal for me.

I'm still hoping that Alfa changes its mind next year..after all, the MT version already exists.