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      11-20-2015, 02:17 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F80M3VETERAN View Post
I this point my career is a risk because i don't have a way to get to work and I cant afford to paid 40K for a need engine.
I think this should be priority #1. Better come up with a few grand to grab a beater from Craigslist so you can at least get to work.

Also, should be <$20K for an engine. Still a heart-stopping amount. But I'd be looking into realistic options to pay/finance the $20K as a worst-case scenario. Maybe BMW will cut you a break and split the engine cost with you, if you play your cards right. $10K is painful on many levels, but it sounds like there's a high probability you share some of the blame for this situation.
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      11-20-2015, 02:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kadify View Post
I've noticed quite a lot of engine blown over-rev warranty denials... I smell a class action law suit coming.
There is no way any auto manufacturer would ever lose a class action law suit over customers doing money shifts. That is NOT covered by any warranty.
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      11-20-2015, 02:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redux View Post
If your car is a manual and the ECU logged a money shift, then you're up the creek without a paddle. Park it and get a cheap Honda from the lemon lot until you can find an S55 on ebay.


Playing the veteran card for blowing your engine is not going to net you extra sympathy or good will.
I disagree. Frankly, "The Veteran Card" is likely the most powerful play in his book at this point. Especially if you're a combat veteran and have suffered an injury in battle. It only takes ONE PERSON that does sympathize with your situation to spread the word and ignite a viral shitstorm for BMW NA making them look like they take advantage of and discriminate against Veterans. Of course it isn't true as we all know they don't give a shit about any of our complaints regardless of military service. The truth is irrelevant when it comes to public opinion; historically, large corporations will go to great lengths to mitigate damaging media coverage or other negative publicity.

Even if you aren't the type to use the V-card and your pride makes it tough to swallow, you should utilize any means available to you to make this situation right. If I were in your situation, I'd forget about my pride and ignore the critics so I could drive my M again. $40,000 out of pocket for an engine is an immense expense.

HOWEVER
If you indeed DID NOT over-rev the engine as you say, I encourage you to seek any remedy you can. If you did money shift and want to pass the blame off on BMWNA, you need to accept responsibility and pay for a new engine or face reality and buy a different car. Don't disrespect BMW or your fellow forum members with lies or a need for attention. Be honest and act like an adult.
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      11-20-2015, 02:26 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I think this should be priority #1. Better come up with a few grand to grab a beater from Craigslist so you can at least get to work.

Also, should be <$20K for an engine. Still a heart-stopping amount. But I'd be looking into realistic options to pay/finance the $20K as a worst-case scenario. Maybe BMW will cut you a break and split the engine cost with you, if you play your cards right. $10K is painful on many levels, but it sounds like there's a high probability you share some of the blame for this situation.
He has sole blame if he shifted wrong. He has the data as he stated a few comments ago -- but doesn't want to share it. He also conveniently excluded it from his intro paragraph. He's trying to make it sound like the car just broke down on its own.

I feel for him with a $75k brick, but when you try to be dishonest with us forum members and angry at BMW, that irks me. Also, playing a veteran card when this has nothing to do with military service also irks me.
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      11-20-2015, 02:33 PM   #27
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Those Germans sure carry a grudge for a long time, don't they Sarge?
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      11-20-2015, 03:01 PM   #28
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I mean if the engine was over revved it was over revved... I can certainly sympathize that this is a new car but I have no idea how this would be bmw's fault, how being a veteran is related and how a 40k engine has to do w anything when its a near 80k car? I mean it has to be understood parts are expensive on an expensive car... I certainly hope you get this resolved and back to enjoying the car but just reading this, I am misunderstanding how anything is in your favor... already numerous people have done this and been in this situation all through their own fault.
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      11-20-2015, 03:09 PM   #29
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Just to clear some things up...

1) One overrev, depending on the RPM you overrevved to, can destroy your motor (in response to the someone saying one over rev shouldn't do it
2) A PROPERLY working 6MT revmatch feature does not BLIP up on an UP shift. The only time it blips up is when you delay your clutch foot from coming up in time before the RPMS should've dropped below the RPM to be revmatched. I.E. going from 1-2, you shifted at 3k, you were slow with your clutch foot release in next gear, RPMS should've dropped to 500pm, but it revmatches and blips to 2k in 2nd for you to execute a smooth shift
3) The rev limiter has nothing to do with over rev cases involving a mis shift.. it is a physical misshift not a throttle induced overrev. I.E. You tried to shift from 3rd to 4th at 7500rpm in 3rd, accidentally jammed it into second and released clutch; car went to 8500-9k rpms. I don't see how you could get warranty to cover this, unless you have a SA that is extremely extremely kind.. even then.. i don't think so; to me it is no different than you crashing the car.

To the OP you need to find out if they logged an actual over rev and the RPM in order for you to fight it, or not fight it. If you money shifted and it's logged, it'll be a hard case to fight.. as with any manual car bought at any dealership / car brand.

Many people think this car should be able to take misshifts - the car is a boosted high performance motor with strict tolerances, with a set rev limiter - to think that this motor can take a misshift at redline into a lower gear blows my mind (no pun intended)

Last edited by JamesGames; 11-20-2015 at 03:27 PM..
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      11-20-2015, 03:10 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMV_M4 View Post
I disagree. Frankly, "The Veteran Card" is likely the most powerful play in his book at this point. Especially if you're a combat veteran and have suffered an injury in battle. It only takes ONE PERSON that does sympathize with your situation to spread the word and ignite a viral shitstorm for BMW NA making them look like they take advantage of and discriminate against Veterans. Of course it isn't true as we all know they don't give a shit about any of our complaints regardless of military service. The truth is irrelevant when it comes to public opinion; historically, large corporations will go to great lengths to mitigate damaging media coverage or other negative publicity.

Even if you aren't the type to use the V-card and your pride makes it tough to swallow, you should utilize any means available to you to make this situation right. If I were in your situation, I'd forget about my pride and ignore the critics so I could drive my M again. $40,000 out of pocket for an engine is an immense expense.

If you indeed DID NOT over-rev the engine as you say, I encourage you to seek any remedy you can. If you did money shift and want to pass the blame off on BMWNA, you need to accept responsibility and pay for a new engine or face reality and buy a different car.
I agree that the veteran card is powerful. It is also extremely offensive to those of us sharing the same status that do not take reckless use of it lightly. The ability to purchase a vehicle of this magnitude generally removes him from the category of "down and out" vet. The military runs on pride and that pride remains with many of us long after our ETS date. He should have the fortitude not to use the use his veteran status to resolve 1st world problems with BMWNA and leave it for those that can't eat or are suffering from the affects of multiple combat tours. A badly worded forum plea for help gets no sympathy when the title of the thread starts with "ARMY Veteran".

Last edited by redux; 11-20-2015 at 03:15 PM..
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      11-20-2015, 03:13 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F80M3VETERAN View Post
I have look at that option but everyone recommend to wait. They have provided me the data and in any case it can be use against me because I own the data.
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      11-20-2015, 03:14 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redux View Post
I agree that the veteran card is powerful. It is also extremely offensive to those of us sharing the same status that do not take reckless use of it lightly. The ability to purchase a vehicle of this magnitude generally removes him from the category of "down and out" vet. The military runs on pride and that pride remains with many of us long after our ETS date. He should have the fortitude not to use the use his veteran status to resolve 1st problems with BMWNA and leave it for those that can't eat or are suffering from the affects of multiple combat tours. A badly worded forum plea for help get no sympathy when the title of the thread starts with "ARMY Veteran".
This exactly. Very well said.
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      11-20-2015, 03:14 PM   #33
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Why is it these posts always lack the evidence? Either provide the proof from the dealer that that say you did or did not money shift. No one is going to get up in arms over here-say.

Tacky pulling the veteran card too.

Last edited by TheDiddy; 11-20-2015 at 03:54 PM..
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      11-20-2015, 03:16 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redux View Post
I agree that the veteran card is powerful. It is also extremely offensive to those of us sharing the same status that do not take reckless use of it lightly. The ability to purchase a vehicle of this magnitude generally removes him from the category of "down and out" vet. The military runs on pride and that pride remains with many of us long after our ETS date. He should have the fortitude not to use the use his veteran status to resolve 1st problems with BMWNA and leave it for those that can't eat or are suffering from the affects of multiple combat tours. A badly worded forum plea for help get no sympathy when the title of the thread starts with "ARMY Veteran".
As a retired Air Force officer who did time in Southeast Asia flying F4 Phantoms, I totally agree with this. As I already posted, he is not yet a veteran, but even if he were, it gains him nothing in his dealings with BMW. He is just a customer, just like everyone else.
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      11-20-2015, 03:36 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterC17 View Post
What you need to do is get the actual details out of the dealer. What RPM do they say it was over-revved to? Was it 8,000 RPM, or 10,000? There's a big difference. Either way, the reality is that IF the engine was indeed over-revved (and the ECU WILL record it), they technically can deny coverage. We need all the facts first.
They have not provide me the data on went the event happened. I dont have the documents from the PUMA case I requested already. They are claiming that they dont need to give to me. waiting on a response from customer service on that.
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      11-20-2015, 03:37 PM   #36
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As a new owner of a manual m3 this whole thread is making me nervous. Why doesn't the transmission have a mechanism that would prevent you from shifting into a gear that would blow the engine. They gave us rev matching but not this?

I wasn't able to shift into the second gear of my 1998 mustang at speeds of more than 70mph even when I tried.
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      11-20-2015, 03:37 PM   #37
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So you money shifted, and just because your a "veteran"
BMW NA should just cover the new motor under warranty........ Makes perfect sense.
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      11-20-2015, 03:38 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F80M3VETERAN View Post
I have look at that option but everyone recommend to wait. They have provided me the data and in any case it can be use against me because I own the data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by F80M3VETERAN View Post
They have not provide me the data on went the event happened. I dont have the documents from the PUMA case I requested already. They are claiming that they dont need to give to me. waiting on a response from customer service on that.
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      11-20-2015, 03:41 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saleen556 View Post
WOW! I don't believe one time would kill an engine. However multiple times especially if cold could do serious damage.
Quantity of over-revs is less important than how high the RPMs went, and whether the piston came in contact with the valves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 997CABOVA View Post
How can a engine over rev??? Is there not a
limiter like someone mentioned. My 2k10 porsche c2s was manual and if u over rev it would just cut off. GL keep us posted
There is a rev limiter.
However, it's possible to physically grab a wrong (lower) gear (6MT required), and use wheels momentum to accelerate the engine beyond the maximum safe RPM speed where valves start to float. Aka the money shift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 997CABOVA View Post
Im assuming the dct wont let money shifting happen even if you wanted too???
Yes.
DCT will not engage a lower gear that would produce an over-rev, until the car slows down to the point where over-rev is avoided.

a
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      11-20-2015, 03:41 PM   #40
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No one answered my question so here it is again

So interesting question on the money shift topic.....If you are in Efficient or Spot plus, notice how the car rev matches just before you are downshifting into the intended gear. Happens pretty fast. Am wondering if you were to accidentally money shift from say 3rd or 5th to 2nd, would the car over rev even before you go into second and let the clutch out because that's what you are trying to do (auto rev feature enabled)....go into second. Or it would protect against that and you would really have to be in 2nd and let go off the clutch to over rev and cause the money shift.

Hope that made sense.

Am guessing it will not over rev because there is no momentum involved from the wheels.
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      11-20-2015, 03:42 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maa335iF30 View Post
As a new owner of a manual m3 this whole thread is making me nervous. Why doesn't the transmission have a mechanism that would prevent you from shifting into a gear that would blow the engine. They gave us rev matching but not this?

I wasn't able to shift into the second gear of my 1998 mustang at speeds of more than 70mph even when I tried.


seriously. there are currently no manual trannys that exist that can prevent you from over rev'ing the engine with a money shift. it is physically impossible. the gears are set by you. you shoved it into a wrong gear, engine fuel gets cut, but the engine is spinning because you released the clutch and now it is toast. valves are bent. etc.

manuals are exactly that... you shifted yourself. you let go of the clutch and now you live with the consequences.

it baffles me that people don't understand this. it is the sole reason i would never buy a used manual car.
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      11-20-2015, 03:43 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redux View Post
If your car is a manual and the ECU logged a money shift, then you're up the creek without a paddle. Park it and get a cheap Honda from the lemon lot until you can find an S55 on ebay.


Playing the veteran card for blowing your engine is not going to net you extra sympathy or good will.

Thanks for you help.

I think I have earned the right to ask for help as a veterans. I'm asking for advice from a veteran friendly lawyer that help me build my case with BMW.

I have serve this country for 16 years with multiple deployments to the middle east, years away form my family, one divorce and the kids living on a different state. So dont tell I dont have the right to ask for help and mention that I'm A VETERAN. They ask you went you apply for a loan, went you filled a BBB complain. SO ITS MY RIGHT TO SAY THAT IM ONE AND LOOKING FOR ADVICE.
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      11-20-2015, 03:44 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsm918 View Post
No one answered my question so here it is again

So interesting question on the money shift topic.....If you are in Efficient or Spot plus, notice how the car rev matches just before you are downshifting into the intended gear. Happens pretty fast. Am wondering if you were to accidentally money shift from say 3rd or 5th to 2nd, would the car over rev even before you go into second and let the clutch out because that's what you are trying to do....go into second. Or it would protect against that and you would really have to be in 2nd and let go off the clutch to over rev and cause the money shift.

Hope that made sense.
probably because no one is willing to do that to their car to test your theory.

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      11-20-2015, 03:45 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by new2thescene View Post
Please do not play the "Veteran" card. For the record, I am an active duty Captain near your location.

Thanks for your service!
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