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      10-11-2019, 07:36 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Jimmyx///m View Post
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Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Who actually LIKES these huge grills? I've heard that it's primarily to the Chinese market who love the things.

Audi / Lexus have been doing this for a while and I always thought it looked hideous. I do hope that it doesn't spread to the entire line of cars.
Well, as a Chinese, me and most my frineds thought that grill is pretty hideous so...

On the other hand, the LCI 7 LWB sells well here, afraid of the future...
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Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
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Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Who actually LIKES these huge grills? I've heard that it's primarily to the Chinese market who love the things.

Audi / Lexus have been doing this for a while and I always thought it looked hideous. I do hope that it doesn't spread to the entire line of cars.
China is a huge market and growing bigger.....they love the BIG grills!!!
One of the most common complaints I heard in China for pre lci 7 series is that a lot of people thought the front face, not necessarily the grills, was too flat and low like an enlarged 3 series and it didn't have the look of a flagship sedan. I own a 740 in Beijing since 2017 and there was about 16% incentive at that time comparing with 0% for S class LCI. BMW even released 730 with B48N20 to dominate more market share but it still failed to compete with S class. For the recent 7 series LCI, the radical grills is also controversial in China according to the comments I heard and it is still outsold by S class. However, X7, with similar grill size, sells extremely well and there is even an extra 10,000 USD equivalent market adjusted pricing from most dealers in my city.

I would partially agree with the statements like "Chinese prefer large grill", but we still pay attention to factors other than the grills. Nevertheless, I think Chinese market response to the new 4 series, M3 and M4 (at least in terms of the appearances) should be identical to other markets because these models usually target hardcore customers, and these customers should have similar general exterior preferences regardless of their residencies and cannot be discussed with potential customers for X7, X5, or 5 series EWB from China
I don't know why people on this forum think the Chinese market wants the large grills. I don't know when that assumption began.
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      10-11-2019, 07:41 AM   #134
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China loves it guys and that's literally all that matters right now
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      10-11-2019, 07:41 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
The world is changing....things are no longer made to western specifications. They are made to cater to a market with a drastically different idea of what looks good on an automobile. Making it worse, they are trying to convince us that the design is "progressive" instead of just being honest about what region the car was designed for.
If they want to cater to the Chinese why not make this the grille.
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      10-11-2019, 07:43 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
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Originally Posted by Jimmyx///m View Post
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Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Who actually LIKES these huge grills? I've heard that it's primarily to the Chinese market who love the things.

Audi / Lexus have been doing this for a while and I always thought it looked hideous. I do hope that it doesn't spread to the entire line of cars.
Well, as a Chinese, me and most my frineds thought that grill is pretty hideous so...

On the other hand, the LCI 7 LWB sells well here, afraid of the future...
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Originally Posted by crossmen00 View Post
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Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
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Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Who actually LIKES these huge grills? I've heard that it's primarily to the Chinese market who love the things.

Audi / Lexus have been doing this for a while and I always thought it looked hideous. I do hope that it doesn't spread to the entire line of cars.
China is a huge market and growing bigger.....they love the BIG grills!!!
One of the most common complaints I heard in China for pre lci 7 series is that a lot of people thought the front face, not necessarily the grills, was too flat and low like an enlarged 3 series and it didn't have the look of a flagship sedan. I own a 740 in Beijing since 2017 and there was about 16% incentive at that time comparing with 0% for S class LCI. BMW even released 730 with B48N20 to dominate more market share but it still failed to compete with S class. For the recent 7 series LCI, the radical grills is also controversial in China according to the comments I heard and it is still outsold by S class. However, X7, with similar grill size, sells extremely well and there is even an extra 10,000 USD equivalent market adjusted pricing from most dealers in my city.

I would partially agree with the statements like "Chinese prefer large grill", but we still pay attention to factors other than the grills. Nevertheless, I think Chinese market response to the new 4 series, M3 and M4 (at least in terms of the appearances) should be identical to other markets because these models usually target hardcore customers, and these customers should have similar general exterior preferences regardless of their residencies and cannot be discussed with potential customers for X7, X5, or 5 series EWB from China
I don't know why people on this forum think the Chinese market wants the large grills. I don't know when that assumption began.
GM BMW ans others have flat out said Chinese markets want visual signs of a cars wealth and prestige and one of the ways is a big grill and aggressive look.
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      10-11-2019, 07:44 AM   #137
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He's been terrible for BMW design.
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      10-11-2019, 07:48 AM   #138
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It's as ugly as the radical E63 by the current BMW design chief, we need more timeless designs like the E46 M3.

I think BMW is going after Lexus buyers, they like those oversized giant grills!
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      10-11-2019, 07:49 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Io View Post
Has this chief designer heard about the Porsche 911? Keeping the same iconic (and beautiful) design for decades has turned it into a legend. One of the reasons I bought a M2 (and fitted it with M2C mirrors) is because it looks like a beautiful modern version of the M3 E36. But now BMW is trying to boost its sales by changing totally its design, and its latest productions are less and less BMWs (and more and more ugly) to my eyes. I already imagine how awful could be the G87 based on the look of the upcoming M4. Sure, it will be super fast. But I want my BMW to look like a BMW, bloody hell ! 🤬
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Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Who actually LIKES these huge grills? I've heard that it's primarily to the Chinese market who love the things.

Audi / Lexus have been doing this for a while and I always thought it looked hideous. I do hope that it doesn't spread to the entire line of cars.
China is a huge market and growing bigger.....they love the BIG grills!!!
One of the most common complaints I heard in China for pre lci 7 series is that a lot of people thought the front face, not necessarily the grills, was too flat and low like an enlarged 3 series and it didn't have the look of a flagship sedan. I own a 740 in Beijing since 2017 and there was about 16% incentive at that time comparing with 0% for S class LCI. BMW even released 730 with B48N20 to dominate more market share but it still failed to compete with S class. For the recent 7 series LCI, the radical grills is also controversial in China according to the comments I heard and it is still outsold by S class. However, X7, with similar grill size, sells extremely well and there is even an extra 10,000 USD equivalent market adjusted pricing from most dealers in my city.

I would partially agree with the statements like "Chinese prefer large grill", but we still pay attention to factors other than the grills. Nevertheless, I think Chinese market response to the new 4 series, M3 and M4 (at least in terms of the appearances) should be identical to other markets because these models usually target hardcore customers, and these customers should have similar general exterior preferences regardless of their residencies and cannot be discussed with potential customers for X7, X5, or 5 series EWB from China
There's a tendency here to compare bmw to Porsche, and often it ends up being apples to oranges. I don't think the 3 series has ever had what can be considered to be an iconic design, like the 911. Remember that the 3er and 911 are designed for different markets and functions. Does anyone here think that the g20 would compete effectively in its current segment if it was a replica of the E30?

Most bmw models have to appeal to a broader market than the Porsche 911, and as such, need to evolve to compete with the competition, and please that market.
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      10-11-2019, 07:50 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Failed in their eyes?

They see it as a success.
I want to see what happens to the electric grid when everyone plugs in to recharge. They cant even keep up on a hot day with A/C.
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      10-11-2019, 07:56 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by KRS_SN View Post
the more i see it the more i like it. i am a bmw fan and even if the grille were twice as big i would buy it.
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the more i see it the more i like it. it.
I agree. I'm not sure I'd buy it as represented in the 4 series concept, but it's growing on me.

The most recent m4 renders actually look sharp, especially in specific colors.
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      10-11-2019, 08:01 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by bobloblaw View Post
Big grille or not, it was time for a big design change for BMW IMO. The outgoing design language of the F3x, G11/12, and G30 look very dated to me already. If you told me the G30 came out in 2010 when the F10 debuted, I would believe you. Same goes for the G11. When those cars debuted, it was so disappointing and I just thought "that's it?" A new 5er and 7er shouldn't elicit that kind of response. It seems like BMW is thinking the same way since this design language has only lasted one generation before a big shakeup.
+1. They need a change. Recently they have gone back to same sausage different length design. IMO the older S class looks significantly better than the 7 and the E looks better than the 5.

The X5 redesign looks almost identical to previous gen. Stale stale stale
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      10-11-2019, 08:31 AM   #143
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I love BMW cars been driving them for 17 years, I always find their cars attractive and fun to drive. I have to say though this design change is too much for me, I currently have a 2018 540 msport
But if this large grill is the way they want to go I will have to look elsewhere, I'm just not a fan of the design.
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      10-11-2019, 08:57 AM   #144
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This clown needs to be fired.
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      10-11-2019, 09:06 AM   #145
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Suddenly Audis are starting to look a whole lot better.
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      10-11-2019, 09:16 AM   #146
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I love my M4C and think it's the best looking M3/M4 to date. I've had one or two of each version after the E30. After seeing the recent renderings, I'm excited about the aggressive new look and bigger grills. Having seen the concept4 pics, M4 renderings, and the competing brand offerings, I think BMWs need the bigger grills and that BMW is headed in a good direction. The new generation is really going to date the prior generations. For those trying using 911 design as a rationale for never doing more than minor evolutionary tweaks, I'm not sure what to tell you other than go to IND and add a spoiler to your current car. There is no car design analogous to a 911. The new M4 may not be the covert sports car that only fans notice, which may be a good thing.
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      10-11-2019, 09:29 AM   #147
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With all due respect Adrian van Hooydonk is an idiot. Keep digging Adrian. Keep digging.
That's not respectful. Try actually being nice.

He might actually think the same thing about you.
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      10-11-2019, 09:39 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by paddyrx8 View Post
All this crying and whinging over the large grill. It looks great in the flesh on the new 7 series and transforms the car. The 4 series coupe looks awesome and you will all be buying one and saying "you know I was wring about the grill, I actually like it". BMW were becoming too bland and indistinguishable from Audi, Merc, even kia and Hyndai. I am glad they are doing something radical to separate them from the others.
See this is where reasonable people can simply disagree. I don’t like the front of the X7, 7er, or the 4 concept because all I can see are the idiotic grilles. I’ve said this before, and so have many others, that it’s not the shape (change on that front could be good), but rather, the sheer size is so overwhelming and disproportionate that it dominates the entire front end.

Truly, if the language is going this way for the entire lineup, then the F series cars we have will be the last for a while. I can’t buy a car that I think looks like shit from the front. It’s a “butter face” situation.
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      10-11-2019, 09:45 AM   #149
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Wish they'd just have a separate grill for the Chinese market and give the rest of the world one that is attractive and proportional. Too bad it would cost more to produce additional bumper covers but maybe they'd make up for it in sales.
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      10-11-2019, 09:51 AM   #150
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Thanks.
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      10-11-2019, 10:02 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
I've said this before and I'll say it again...if they can tone it down for the production version and have it closer to the Hommage Concept.....we could have a serious winner on our hands!
Man we can only hope and pray. The car would be next level in my opinion.
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      10-11-2019, 10:11 AM   #152
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Nice try at turning this into "changing to stay ahead of the competition". How about addressing his lack of creating a beautiful and different design rather than what we have which is different and ugly design?
exactly ... a functional sleek design because folks interested in coupes are not interested in Ram truck sized grill in the nose

I give Tesla credit for the design even if it is a bit boring they have one of the lowest cd
Well Tesla is EV so they never had to create a brand specific front end which also served a purpose other than cosmetics.

I'm having difficulty accepting purely cosmetic grills which this one appears to be. They look fake like fake air scoops. Fake = cheap.
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      10-11-2019, 10:14 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by bobloblaw View Post
Big grille or not, it was time for a big design change for BMW IMO. The outgoing design language of the F3x, G11/12, and G30 look very dated to me already. If you told me the G30 came out in 2010 when the F10 debuted, I would believe you. Same goes for the G11. When those cars debuted, it was so disappointing and I just thought "that's it?" A new 5er and 7er shouldn't elicit that kind of response. It seems like BMW is thinking the same way since this design language has only lasted one generation before a big shakeup.
+1. They need a change. Recently they have gone back to same sausage different length design..
I get a laugh when I read this because enthusiasts were saying the exact opposite about 10 yrs ago.
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      10-11-2019, 10:29 AM   #154
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I'm in the minority in that I like the design so far... I've had a few BMWs now, but also an Audi and Porsche peppered in between so I'm not a blind fan boy but I think it isn't nearly as bad as people are making it out to be... people are talking about the 911 and keeping the iconic shape etc. but the 4 series is going on its second generation; there's nothing iconic about it. Sure you can trace it back to the 3 series coupe but they have no ties to the past with the 4 series so they're taking this risk. Sales will show whether it's successful or not... either way, I'm excited for the G80 that's going to share this big ass grill.

People in here talking about Bangle also being a failure yet 99% of the car industry followed in his steps of flame surfacing. While I don't think BMW is being a pioneer with the big grill thing (Audi and Lexus have been doing it for years now) it's nice to see they are following-thru on addressing previous complaints that all BMW models were indistinguishable from each other (same sausage different length).
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