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      01-30-2014, 06:31 PM   #221
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I like the new exhaust sound and I think that clip of the e92 doesn't sound as good on the vid as in person. So my delivery should be a pleasant surprise
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      01-30-2014, 06:48 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filip75 View Post
It sounds like a mid 90s 4 cylinder sport motorcycle with a Muzzy exhaust
Totally. I was thinking Yoshimura, but we are hearing the same thing. It's amazing how quickly the revs rise and fall on the Ferrari. LOVE it.
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      01-30-2014, 07:00 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DO M3 View Post
Lol, point proven. Yes the vette boys do brag about their V8's but i watched a z06 spank a GTR this weekend at the track. the vette ran an 8.4 and alpha9 gtr was running 10's lol
There is always someone bigger, faster, richer etc.. Than you. So far I have lost to two vetts by a very small margin... Hey but I have a back seat lol.
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      01-30-2014, 07:17 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
As was stated earlier, it seems when it comes to turbo inline 6s, the Japanese seem to have been able to nail a sound that to many sounded very good.
Any experts here? Why do the Supra's and old Skyline GT-R's sound so different from the BMW turbo 6's? I'm guessing it has to do with the turbine type and piston stroke (square or over-square for the Japanese, longer stroke for BMW). I do feel that the Japanese turbo I6's sound more melodious.
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      01-30-2014, 07:43 PM   #225
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I like the exhaust has a nice exotic tone to it! Some real potential here and surely great bmw performance and aftermarket exhaust options to follow.
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      01-30-2014, 07:56 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbrooks18 View Post
I like the exhaust has a nice exotic tone to it! Some real potential here and surely great bmw performance and aftermarket exhaust options to follow.
Hard to beat the current E9x M3 sound V8 with any 6.

Sound at idle doesn't mean much. It is very E46 to me at a higher pitch.

I have a feeling it will be much better accelerating. What may be great sounding are the burbles, farts and raspiness when downshifting on track. Sort of like an older Formula Atlantic car gearing down.

I have a friend who travels around with the Formula 1 circuit. They are testing this week in Spain. The same issues people are talking about with the new M3/M4 are similar. 8 cylinder down to 6. New nose/hood for safety.

He said the new 6 cylinder turbo engines don't sound as good as the 8s from last year. Not as much rumble.

The biggest issue however is how bad the 'anteater' noses look on the new F1 cars. Kind of like the hood line on the new M3/M4.

Andrian Newey in particular said..........

"I think it is a shame if regulations create ugly solutions, as we have seen in some of the cars that have been released.

"It is not a strictly technical matter as we have to design a car that we feel gives the best performance regardless of the styling.

"But I think the shape of the cars, the sound of the cars, is all part of the drama of F1. And it is a shame if the cars are unattractive."

So true..........

Go to some of the F1 sites. Man those noses are weird.
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      01-30-2014, 08:43 PM   #227
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Nice sound
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      01-30-2014, 11:41 PM   #228
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Just as a comparison, OEM Exhaust Mod for e9X M3

Last edited by Prince_of_Persia; 01-30-2014 at 11:54 PM..
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      01-30-2014, 11:46 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia View Post
Just as a comparison, OEM Exhaust Mod for e9w M3
Sounds good!
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      01-30-2014, 11:57 PM   #230
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Question, how much does a new exhaust cost for M3s?
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      01-31-2014, 12:12 AM   #231
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Yeah, Porshe's sound like their engines are about to fall apart, sort of like the NA V8 M3. I like z turbo!
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      01-31-2014, 01:14 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by //M sa
Question, how much does a new exhaust cost for M3s?
$3500-4k for an Akrapovic. Maybe more!
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      01-31-2014, 02:15 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan
Quote:
Originally Posted by //M sa
Question, how much does a new exhaust cost for M3s?
$3500-4k for an Akrapovic. Maybe more!
Eissenman Race FTW
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      01-31-2014, 02:46 AM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia View Post
Just as a comparison, OEM Exhaust Mod for e9X M3
no doubt, the V8 sounds great.
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      01-31-2014, 03:28 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
As we have discussed prior, I think you radically underestimate the contribution to sound from the exhaust system and overestimate the contribution from the crankshaft arrangement.
Without a cross bank exhaust like in the original GT40 and as is on the F1x M5/6 there is no way to get rid of the warble that comes from the uneven firing order per cylinder bank in a cross plane cranked V8. You can argue as much as you want, but the unmistakeable V8 warble exhaust pulsation can't be eradicated without either a flat plane crank or a cross bank exhaust manifold.

Just listen to a F10 550i and a F10 M5 with similar Meisterschaft exhausts.

And the similarity between the S55 and F430 is of no relevance to the flat plane vs cross plane V8. Neither the S55 nor the F430 has an uneven firing order creating the pulsation in one exhaust manifold at a time. A flat plane crank V8 is the same firing order as two I4 engines, each bank acting as a I4 engine connected by a common crankshaft. A I6 is one inline engine with even distribution of firing sequences.

You can have a exhaust system that enhances the V8 warble, like one without a X or H tube. And you can have a exhaust system that tries to minimize it. A X or H tube is also preferred to enhance exhaust scavenging on a cross plane crank V8 to even out/balance the exhaust pressure problems that the uneven firing sequences create.

Last edited by Boss330; 01-31-2014 at 03:36 AM..
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      01-31-2014, 03:46 AM   #236
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Despite all of the words above/below my criticism stands. You want to have your cake and eat it too in your sound "analysis".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Without a cross bank exhaust like in the original GT40 and as is on the F1x M5/6 there is no way to get rid of the warble that comes from the uneven firing order per cylinder bank in a cross plane cranked V8. You can argue as much as you want, but the unmistakeable V8 warble exhaust pulsation can't be eradicated without either a flat plane crank or a cross bank exhaust manifold.
Sure everyone knows about the "warble". When do we hear that. IMO, mostly at idle only.

It really doesn't matter which bank is firing what matters is that one bank gives two consecutive firings that go into one set of headers and typically into one half of an exhaust system. Thus the warble could be eradicated with clever/non-standard exhaust piping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
A I6 is one inline engine with even distribution of firing sequences.
Terminology? All common inline engines 4, 6, 8 have an even distribution of firing, they fire every X degrees, period. The same is true for the V6, V8, V12.
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      01-31-2014, 04:27 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Despite all of the words above/below my criticism stands. You want to have your cake and eat it too in your sound "analysis".



Sure everyone knows about the "warble". When do we hear that. IMO, mostly at idle only.

It really doesn't matter which bank is firing what matters is that one bank gives two consecutive firings that go into one set of headers and typically into one half of an exhaust system. Thus the warble could be eradicated with clever/non-standard exhaust piping.



Terminology? All common inline engines 4, 6, 8 have an even distribution of firing, they fire every X degrees, period. The same is true for the V6, V8, V12.
If you can't hear the distinct difference between a cross plane vs flat plane V8 through the rev range there is really no point debating this. And not sure what you mean by that I want to have my cake and eat it? I have just pointed out how the firing sequence of the cross plane V8 creates some issues that neither the I4, I6 or flat plane V8 has. Which creates exactly the sound we are discussing here. The I6 don't have that issue, the I4 neither, nor the flat plane V8. Which is why your analogy about the I6 vs flat plane/cross plane V8 sound makes no sense.

If we do an experiment with sound and use a person beating on a drum as an example:

If he keeps the following beat:

Bam - Bam - Bam - Bam

or

Bam - Bam - Bam - Bam - Bam

or

Bam - Bam - Bam - Bam - Bam - Bam - Bam - Bam

or

Bam - BamBam - Bam - Bam - BamBam - Bam

(if you say the last one out load you will notice that you actuall recreate the "warble" at idle from a cross plane V8 )

Then the first three are more similar as they "only" vary in beat per minute (or number of explosions per revolution). The last one also has the same number of beats (or explosions) per minute as number 3, but 4 of those are out of rhytm with the rest of the explosions (not out of rythm relative to crank rotation, but out of rythm per cylinder bank). That not only happens at idle, but all through the rev range and is audible (not saying that it sounds bad, just that it has to sound different). At idle, due to the low frequency the off beats are more discernable as the "warble". As revs increase the "beats" are closer together so it creates a different character, but it still sounds different from a Ferrari V8.

As you pretty much said yourselves above, whith "clever piping" the warble and distinctive cross plane sound can be eradicated. Which is EXACTLY what I have said numerous times in our discussions. You NEED to have a cross bank exhaust like on the F1X M5/6 and on the original GT40 to get rid of the warble. The "problem" is that you need to cross the exhaust banks before the exhaust tubing meets the collector for each bank. Easy on the S63 with it's inboard exhausts and on the GT40 with it's rear engine layout where you can have the exhaust above the transmission before exiting. Not so easy on a front engine RWD car with a traditional outboard exhaust side on the engine.

And in what you call "terminology" you have answered your own question. For engines like the I4, I6, V12 and flat plane V8, the firing order is not just even per crank degree, they are also even per cylinder bank. The cross plane V8 isn't firing evenly per cylinder bank and unless you direct the uneven exhaust pulse from one bank to the other bank (so that it replaces the uneven exhaust pulse on that bank with an even exhaust pulse, one that is in sequence with crank rotation) BEFORE the collector, then you WILL have a different exhaust sound from what a flat plane crank V8 has.

But now that you also acknowlegde that it takes "clever" (Ford did it in the late '60ies and BMW does it on the S63Tu in the M cars) routing of the exhaust to eradicate the cross plane V8 sound, we actually agree

Last edited by Boss330; 01-31-2014 at 07:19 AM..
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      01-31-2014, 06:26 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
She squirts! That's kinda hot.



sounds pretty good though.
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      01-31-2014, 07:56 AM   #239
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Sounds like a croaking frog. Whoever says they like this sound are kidding themselves.
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      01-31-2014, 08:10 AM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Without a cross bank exhaust like in the original GT40 and as is on the F1x M5/6 there is no way to get rid of the warble that comes from the uneven firing order per cylinder bank in a cross plane cranked V8. You can argue as much as you want, but the unmistakeable V8 warble exhaust pulsation can't be eradicated without either a flat plane crank or a cross bank exhaust manifold.

Just listen to a F10 550i and a F10 M5 with similar Meisterschaft exhausts.

And the similarity between the S55 and F430 is of no relevance to the flat plane vs cross plane V8. Neither the S55 nor the F430 has an uneven firing order creating the pulsation in one exhaust manifold at a time. A flat plane crank V8 is the same firing order as two I4 engines, each bank acting as a I4 engine connected by a common crankshaft. A I6 is one inline engine with even distribution of firing sequences.

You can have a exhaust system that enhances the V8 warble, like one without a X or H tube. And you can have a exhaust system that tries to minimize it. A X or H tube is also preferred to enhance exhaust scavenging on a cross plane crank V8 to even out/balance the exhaust pressure problems that the uneven firing sequences create.
Dude what do you do for a living? You know so much about cars. Do you have your own car shop? Just curious that's all
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      01-31-2014, 08:19 AM   #241
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Lol lawnmower.
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      01-31-2014, 09:02 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZooMMM View Post
Sounds like a croaking frog. Whoever says they like this sound are kidding themselves.
Oh yeah, I am kidding my self. I love lying to my self, I mean I built my life to get to this point by kidding my self all along. Thank you Dr. Phill, your contribution to this thread is endless.

Different strokes for different folks.
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