BMW F80 M3 Coilovers

[nathan20]

Hi everyone,

I have some thoughts/questions about my F80 suspension that I would like to share. I welcome everyones feedback and suggestions.

My 2016 F80 has 75,000km. It is currently stock when it comes to suspension. Since owning the car, I have wanted to lower it a bit to eliminate the wheel gap. I was initially planning to go with lowering springs (probably eibachs). However after thinking over it more, I started considering coilovers because I plan to keep the car for a long time and figured I would have to replace the suspension eventually.

1) So I suppose the first question is, does the suspension need to be replaced eventually or will I be ok with just switching springs for the long term?

2) When it comes to replacing suspension, I’ve seen the term EDC come up in multiple threads. Is EDC the same as the M-Adaptive suspension? I know my car does not have the button or M-adaptive suspension, but does it have EDC (if they are different)? How can I check?

3) If I go with coilovers, which ones do you recommend? My priorities would be cost and eliminating wheel gap. I do not plan to track the car.

Thanks everyone!

[hellokitty]

1) Lowering springs on stock suspension will kill your (still good) shock’s prematurely. I would keep it stock until you get coilovers.

2) If you are able to set your suspension to comfort, sport or sport plus via the button near the shifter, you have electronic damper control. Otherwise you don’t.

3) Depending on whether you have EDC or not and whether you want to retain EDC functionality, this will direct what coilovers you would buy. If you have EDC and want a more comfortable ride, KW DDC. If you don’t have EDC or choose to delete that functionality, then you have a lot more options, which are cheaper compared to EDC coilovers.

Budget: ST Suspension (made by KW and good for street use).

Moderate: Ohlins R&T (3DM or Turner version for street use) or KW V3. Ohlins will not go that low so KW or ST will be better for a slammed look.

Higher end: JRZ RS1 Touring would be my pick.

[nathan20]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

1) Lowering springs on stock suspension will kill your (still good) shock’s prematurely. I would keep it stock until you get coilovers.

2) If you are able to set your suspension to comfort, sport or sport plus via the button near the shifter, you have electronic damper control. Otherwise you don’t.

3) Depending on whether you have EDC or not and whether you want to retain EDC functionality, this will direct what coilovers you would buy. If you have EDC and want a more comfortable ride, KW DDC. If you don’t have EDC or choose to delete that functionality, then you have a lot more options, which are cheaper compared to EDC coilovers.

Budget: ST Suspension (made by KW and good for street use).

Moderate: Ohlins R&T (3DM or Turner version for street use) or KW V3. Ohlins will not go that low so KW or ST will be better for a slammed look.

Higher end: JRZ RS1 Touring would be my pick.

thanks! that was very informative. think I will end up going with coilovers if that is the case. I've seen a lot on the KW V3, but would the KW V2 or KW V1 be viable as well?

In terms of ST suspension, is there any other place to buy their product aside from their website? doesn't seem like their products for the F80 come up in many places with a quick google search.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by nathan20

thanks! that was very informative. think I will end up going with coilovers if that is the case. I've seen a lot on the KW V3, but would the KW V2 or KW V1 be viable as well?

In terms of ST suspension, is there any other place to buy their product aside from their website? doesn't seem like their products for the F80 come up in many places with a quick google search.

I get all my stuff through mike@x-ph.com.

https://x-ph.com/st-suspensions-coil...-m4-f82-coupe/

The ST XTA kit comes with camber plates, which makes this kit a great value. They’re basically the same as KW V3 internally except they use galvanized steel which is more budget friendly and costs less to build.

If you live in an area with no snow/salt, ST XTA is the way to go. Otherwise KW V3 will be essentially the same performance-wise but it uses stainless steel shock housings for corrosion resistance for areas with snow/salt. KW V3 doesn’t come with camber plates on their own so you’ll need to buy those separately if you want to dial in your front camber to exact specs.

ST doesn’t make a KW V1 or V2 equivalent for our cars since our cars are more track focused. I wouldn’t put anything less than the ST XTA / KW V3 depending on where you live.

[Theruleslawyer]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Budget: ST Suspension (made by KW and good for street use).

Moderate: Ohlins R&T (3DM or Turner version for street use) or KW V3. Ohlins will not go that low so KW or ST will be better for a slammed look.

Higher end: JRZ RS1 Touring would be my pick.

FWIW my Ohlins got much lower than expected. No gap left, but yah not the right choice if you really want to slam it.



I don't find the stock 90/190 rates particularly harsh. It feels like Sport Plus, but without the harsh crashy edge.

The one other thing to keep in mind is progressive rate vs linear springs. Some street oriented ones are progressive which tends to make them more comfortable over small bumps, but also makes the car lean more before it sets and will use up limited suspension travel with the initial low rate.

The EDC versions tend to be about $1k more than their non edc variant. You're also stuck with just a couple settings from what I understand rather than having 20-30 clicks of adjustment and being able to independently balance the front and rear. Rather than buy EDC you could spend it on a better shock.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

I get all my stuff through mike@x-ph.com.

https://x-ph.com/st-suspensions-coil...-m4-f82-coupe/

The ST XTA kit comes with camber plates, which makes this kit a great value. They’re basically the same as KW V3 internally except they use galvanized steel which is more budget friendly and costs less to build.

If you live in an area with no snow/salt, ST XTA is the way to go. Otherwise KW V3 will be essentially the same performance-wise but it uses stainless steel shock housings for corrosion resistance for areas with snow/salt. KW V3 doesn’t come with camber plates on their own so you’ll need to buy those separately if you want to dial in your front camber to exact specs.

ST doesn’t make a KW V1 or V2 equivalent for our cars since our cars are more track focused. I wouldn’t put anything less than the ST XTA / KW V3 depending on where you live.

Attention all interested customers, the stock information for ST suspension on our website is always up-to-date. If the "Add to Cart" button is visible, the product is in stock and guaranteed to ship within 1-2 business days.

If you can only see the "Add to Wishlist" button instead, it means the item is currently out of stock. Our website doesn't currently display ETAs for out-of-stock items; however, you're welcome to reach out to me or our support team for an estimated restocking date.

Fortunately, this specific ST product is in stock and ready for shipping.

[nathan20]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

I get all my stuff through mike@x-ph.com.

https://x-ph.com/st-suspensions-coil...-m4-f82-coupe/

The ST XTA kit comes with camber plates, which makes this kit a great value. They’re basically the same as KW V3 internally except they use galvanized steel which is more budget friendly and costs less to build.

If you live in an area with no snow/salt, ST XTA is the way to go. Otherwise KW V3 will be essentially the same performance-wise but it uses stainless steel shock housings for corrosion resistance for areas with snow/salt. KW V3 doesn’t come with camber plates on their own so you’ll need to buy those separately if you want to dial in your front camber to exact specs.

ST doesn’t make a KW V1 or V2 equivalent for our cars since our cars are more track focused. I wouldn’t put anything less than the ST XTA / KW V3 depending on where you live.

Thanks for the contact! Sounds like I might be going with the ST XTA 🤔 hehe

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by nathan20

Thanks for the contact! Sounds like I might be going with the ST XTA 🤔 hehe

Lets do it

[M 4 FUN]

As these cars are quite overdamped and soft springed there is no problem to use, say, 20% stiffer springs on stock shocks. And the myth that shocks wear out faster just because the springrate is higher is not correct. Remember that a stiffer spring actually takes load off the damper on the compression stroke.
As a comparison when you look at the dampingcurves of the stock shocks and Öhlins road & track, the damping force is almost the same when the Öhlins are set at the softer setting but they use 100% stiffer springs at the rear.

Btw, the ST kit is a great option. Very good for the money. I have it on my 320 Si homologation car and it is very good.

[spidy512]

Thanks all for the great discussion.

I am at 100k mi on my stock EDC, and due to priorities elsewhere, I am in the market for inexpensive suspenstion replacement. These look like my best bet, but I had a question.

Thanks hellokitty for the details that these are essentiually KW V3's, but in a less expensive chassis. The question I have is do these need a spacer for the rear to keep the car from being "slammed". The V3 is one of the kits I have been looking at, and I was going to def get the rear spacer as I do not lower my car that much.

Anyone who have these able to confrim if they need a spacer as well?

Thanks!
josh

[Schultz28]

I would stay away from KW products. Quality control sucks and they don't back their product at all.

Check out Broadway Static if you want a budget coilover. Custom spring rates and valving too. (They are custom setup Fortune Autos)

[Theruleslawyer]

Originally Posted by M 4 FUN

And the myth that shocks wear out faster just because the springrate is higher is not correct. Remember that a stiffer spring actually takes load off the damper on the compression stroke.

I don't think its the spring rate. Its that lowering springs puts you on the bumpstops constantly. The shocks can handle higher rates and if anyone made stock height higher rate springs it might be a good performance option.

[heyyouduh]

Originally Posted by Schultz28

I would stay away from KW products. Quality control sucks and they don't back their product at all.

Check out Broadway Static if you want a budget coilover. Custom spring rates and valving too. (They are custom setup Fortune Autos)

"Best coilovers ever made. These are by far the best coilovers I’ve ever seen and ran on my cars. Worth every single penny and will definitely be running broadways on every car I can.

Anonymous Verified Purchaser"

From their web site 😂 I just can't take this seriously.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by Schultz28

I would stay away from KW products. Quality control sucks and they don't back their product at all.

Check out Broadway Static if you want a budget coilover. Custom spring rates and valving too. (They are custom setup Fortune Autos)

Broadway Static and Fortune Auto hasn't done anything to prove that they are indeed good parts. Custom rates and valving doesn't mean shit if the valving is poor to begin with. Even BC Racing hasn't gotten out of my questionable bucket of parts yet despite being part of TA and drifting competitions. If KW have questionable quality control(which I agree there are occasional duds) most of these other brands would go straight to trash.

I've been messing around enough with suspension long enough that even Eibach/H&R springs aren't stuff I'd put in my cars, nevermind two brands that caters to the hard parking crowd. I have Bilsteins B16 on my car right now and even then I'm not terribly happy with what they spec'ed. I would swap the springs but I don't have that kind of extra cash.

[Theruleslawyer]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

two brands that caters to the hard parking crowd.

LoL. Hard parking. I've always thought of them as the wash and wax guys or cars and coffee. All show and no go.

[Schultz28]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

Broadway Static and Fortune Auto hasn't done anything to prove that they are indeed good parts. Custom rates and valving doesn't mean shit if the valving is poor to begin with. Even BC Racing hasn't gotten out of my questionable bucket of parts yet despite being part of TA and drifting competitions. If KW have questionable quality control(which I agree there are occasional duds) most of these other brands would go straight to trash.

I've been messing around enough with suspension long enough that even Eibach/H&R springs aren't stuff I'd put in my cars, nevermind two brands that caters to the hard parking crowd. I have Bilsteins B16 on my car right now and even then I'm not terribly happy with what they spec'ed. I would swap the springs but I don't have that kind of extra cash.

Clearly know nothing about suspension, Spring rates and valving has everything to do with the suspension setup... the prior setup for valving means nothing after custom valving is done.

And I would say KW has more than just "occasional duds". The worst part about their quality control issues is they won't admit to them or back their product at all. I don't know how anybody can support a company like that. I sure won't.

The simple fact is, this guy is asking for a budget coilover and he doesn't plan to track the car, so that's exactly what I recommended. Personally, I would go with AST, TCKline, Ohlins (what I currently have), MCS, or JRZ and suggest staying stock until you can afford at least the entry level to one of those brands. There are a few exceptions / higher end coilovers, but for the most part, if it's not one of those brands, it's not worth buying. But just wanting to lower your car and cruise around the streets, Broadway statics are a perfect budget friendly coilover that will do just that.

[RugbyBro]

When considering coilovers, generally speaking, you get what you pay for:

But it also depends on your priorities too, so don't feel like you absolutely need to spend on a high end set.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by Schultz28

Clearly know nothing about suspension, Spring rates and valving has everything to do with the suspension setup... the prior setup for valving means nothing after custom valving is done.

And I would say KW has more than just "occasional duds". The worst part about their quality control issues is they won't admit to them or back their product at all. I don't know how anybody can support a company like that. I sure won't.

The simple fact is, this guy is asking for a budget coilover and he doesn't plan to track the car, so that's exactly what I recommended. Personally, I would go with AST, TCKline, Ohlins (what I currently have), MCS, or JRZ and suggest staying stock until you can afford at least the entry level to one of those brands. There are a few exceptions / higher end coilovers, but for the most part, if it's not one of those brands, it's not worth buying. But just wanting to lower your car and cruise around the streets, Broadway statics are a perfect budget friendly coilover that will do just that.

Clearly you only know valving and spring rates, but deeper than that there's:
quality of springs - a big measure is spring response rate, not something that's regularly advertised and it's expensive to test
the damper curves - I've been messing with suspension for a long time and I still don't know much about the types of curves and how it matches when what you are looking for, getting into very hardcore territory
how much and how well each click is measured on an adjustable damper - most shit dampers have all their changes in the final 3-5 clicks despite having 10-20 clicks of adjustment
how well a set of dampers are matched - Koni is a standard in affordable dampers, but back in the day people would buy a dozen of them to find sets that matched because the damping curve can be different between batches or even individual shocks.

I would not advertise someone to put on a shit set of coils just because they want to be cheap. This is a late gen M3/4, even when used prices are in the 40's on the low end, it's still an expensive platform to play with. If you can't afford it don't mod it. Chasing after suspension gremlins are such a painful way to live with the car, and if they can't even afford a few grand on suspension the maintenance and consumables on the car are going to eat them alive.

It seems like you've had a bad experience with KW, and I have had friends that hasn't had great experience with their customer service either. The fact that you HAVE to send it back to their factory for rebuild is a pain in the ass no doubt, but writing off a well engineered product at a reasonable price point because of a few bad experiences.... No one would be driving BMWs as that's exactly what an M car is.

[The_Werm]

Seems like MCS 1WNR is the best option?

[Schultz28]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

Clearly you only know valving and spring rates, but deeper than that there's:
quality of springs - a big measure is spring response rate, not something that's regularly advertised and it's expensive to test
the damper curves - I've been messing with suspension for a long time and I still don't know much about the types of curves and how it matches when what you are looking for, getting into very hardcore territory
how much and how well each click is measured on an adjustable damper - most shit dampers have all their changes in the final 3-5 clicks despite having 10-20 clicks of adjustment
how well a set of dampers are matched - Koni is a standard in affordable dampers, but back in the day people would buy a dozen of them to find sets that matched because the damping curve can be different between batches or even individual shocks.

I would not advertise someone to put on a shit set of coils just because they want to be cheap. This is a late gen M3/4, even when used prices are in the 40's on the low end, it's still an expensive platform to play with. If you can't afford it don't mod it. Chasing after suspension gremlins are such a painful way to live with the car, and if they can't even afford a few grand on suspension the maintenance and consumables on the car are going to eat them alive.

It seems like you've had a bad experience with KW, and I have had friends that hasn't had great experience with their customer service either. The fact that you HAVE to send it back to their factory for rebuild is a pain in the ass no doubt, but writing off a well engineered product at a reasonable price point because of a few bad experiences.... No one would be driving BMWs as that's exactly what an M car is.

Broadway offers Swift and Hyperco springs. (both top notch springs)
They are hand built and dyno test each shock.

I am not sure what your issue is with them, but I think they produce a pretty decent product for the price.

It is very easy to write off a "well engineered product" because the market is flooded with better products to get (examples listed previously). Why deal with quality control issues and bad customer service when you don't have to?

[Theruleslawyer]

Originally Posted by The_Werm

Seems like MCS 1WNR is the best option?

Best depends on your use, but its a very capable suspension for either street or track. Default setup tends towards track on those afaik. Like a lot of mid to high end suspension you need to talk to your vendor about spring rates and valving for your goals.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by The_Werm

Seems like MCS 1WNR is the best option?

Only if track time & performance is important. On a purely street driven vehicle I wouldn't run that setup. MCS is some incredible stuff but not something that you're really going to get a ton of value from or appreciation for unless you're carving lines and smashing curbs on track.

I'd probably lean into a softer, twin tube based setup for pure street/canyon performance. For stance bois, well I have no idea but from what I see it looks like cheap & cheerful is the route they go.