BMW F80 M3 Coilovers

[Schultz28]

Originally Posted by The_Werm

Seems like MCS 1WNR is the best option?

If you are looking for the ultimate street coilover, I have heard the Ohlins X Turner Motorsport Street-Performance Coilovers are pretty amazing. (revalved / resprung Ohlins R/T's geared primarily for street driving)

But dual duty "track/street", those MCS are great. The Ohlins R/T, AST 5100's, JRZ RS Touring, and TCKline DA's would be great options as well.

[The_Werm]

Ya I’m planning on doing MCS 1WNR for dual duty use.

Are any of those options superior on track at a similar price point? Bimmerworld really suggests this kit.

Thanks

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by The_Werm

Ya I’m planning on doing MCS 1WNR for dual duty use.

Are any of those options superior on track at a similar price point? Bimmerworld really suggests this kit.

Thanks

Without going down the rabbit-hole on suspension, MCS 1WNR will do great for your situation. Spring rates are going to have quite an impact on street manners but MCS dampers can handle a wide range of rates. I drive on some of the worst roads you'll likely find anywhere and am on a 2WR setup that runs 550F/450R springs (true coil rear). I find that I could easily bump up the rates without impacting street-ability too much, BW suggested at one point 650F/550R. I should acknowledge that I have gas pressure to play with and a dedicated compression adjustment, so YMMV.

Just keep in mind that MCS are race dampers that happen to have very good street manners... but they're still race dampers.

[The_Werm]

My first time going down the suspension rabbit hole i would love to learn more.

What are the benefits of investing in a 2WR setup up like you have for a dual duty car?

Thanks

[heyyouduh]

Originally Posted by Schultz28

Broadway offers Swift and Hyperco springs. (both top notch springs)
They are hand built and dyno test each shock.

I am not sure what your issue is with them, but I think they produce a pretty decent product for the price.

It is very easy to write off a "well engineered product" because the market is flooded with better products to get (examples listed previously). Why deal with quality control issues and bad customer service when you don't have to?

I think Swift springs (which are in general more expensive than Eibach or Hyperco counterparts) on budget type coilovers is dressing up a cheap part and a telltale sign of at best an average quality product. However I have never used Fortune Autos so I won't speak on them but tend to be weary of budget shocks.

Sure, if you wanna run a 5" tall front spring on a f8x for tire/wheel fitment and you want as much spring travel as possible Swift with its thinner coils are nice, but in most applications it's probably not practically different from cheaper Eibach or Hyperco springs.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by The_Werm

My first time going down the suspension rabbit hole i would love to learn more.

What are the benefits of investing in a 2WR setup up like you have for a dual duty car?

Thanks

Alrighty well I will keep this simple-ish because A. I am by no means an expert or even that smart, and B. there is no universal suspension philosophy, so I won't dive into twin-tube vs monotube, soft springs vs stiff springs, etc. So we'll just keep this focused on MCS. The first thing to know (and you may already know this, so apologies if you do) is what a mono-tube and twin tube shock are. Here is a good vid that explains the difference:

This is important because MCS makes monotube dampers, which means that on all variants, there is a separated gas component. On NR variants, the gas pressure is fixed and sealed in the bottom of the shock with no pressure adjustability, whereas on the R variants, the gas chamber is in an external reservoir which also allows you to adjust the gas pressure. Additionally, the damper shaft has more travel as the gas chamber isn't required in the shock itself. While it doesn't operate like a traditional spring, the gas pressure is often referred to as the gas spring.

Why would this be important?

Well, as I understand it, higher gas pressure increases the static load that the damper has to overcome before it will actually compress - liken it to an additional spring. If it cannot overcome the load then another portion of your chassis needs to compensate for it - typically your tires. So having the ability to fine tune a damper's gas pressure can be advantageous in a lot of ways. Most notably for a dual duty car, is the gas pressure can be reduced to give you a more compliant experience on the street or increased for more response on track.

So what's better for dual duty?

Well, money no object, the Remote systems are better. You have much better adjustability and more shaft travel than the Non-Remotes. I know the 1WNR are marketed as an entry-level "street friendly" solution, but the truth is the 2/3/4WR will give you a better ride on the street as they have much more adjustability. Now you don't need to go all out on a 3 or 4 way set, going with the 2 way already gets you the increased shaft travel and adjustable reservoir. Also, if TT or TA is something you want to do, there are usually class limits on damper adjustability.

Does that mean the Non-Remote is bad?

Absolutely not - from my personal experience, everything MCS makes is stellar. After driving mine extensively now and ridden in a few others (R & NR), they're all awesome. Having said that, I have not experienced a NR package on the street - so you will have to defer to others that have.

So what's best for you?

Well that's the question... and it really depends on how much you would like to spend. The remote setup is substantially more expensive... worthwhile I would say, but eye-wateringly expensive. You're still going to get a great product with the NR dampers and the best thing about MCS is if you want to upgrade them in the future to a 2/3/4WR, you can do just that when you eventually have them rebuilt. All their dampers use the same fundamental hardware. They're all also valved to handle high spring rates so you can run some pretty stiff springs without them rattling your bones.

[Schultz28]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Alrighty well I will keep this simple-ish because A. I am by no means an expert or even that smart, and B. there is no universal suspension philosophy, so I won't dive into twin-tube vs monotube, soft springs vs stiff springs, etc. So we'll just keep this focused on MCS. The first thing to know (and you may already know this, so apologies if you do) is what a mono-tube and twin tube shock are. Here is a good vid that explains the difference:

This is important because MCS makes monotube dampers, which means that on all variants, there is a separated gas component. On NR variants, the gas pressure is fixed and sealed in the bottom of the shock with no pressure adjustability, whereas on the R variants, the gas chamber is in an external reservoir which also allows you to adjust the gas pressure. Additionally, the damper shaft has more travel as the gas chamber isn't required in the shock itself. While it doesn't operate like a traditional spring, the gas pressure is often referred to as the gas spring.

Why would this be important?

Well, as I understand it, higher gas pressure increases the static load that the damper has to overcome before it will actually compress - liken it to an additional spring. If it cannot overcome the load then another portion of your chassis needs to compensate for it - typically your tires. So having the ability to fine tune a damper's gas pressure can be advantageous in a lot of ways. Most notably for a dual duty car, is the gas pressure can be reduced to give you a more compliant experience on the street or increased for more response on track.

So what's better for dual duty?

Well, money no object, the Remote systems are better. You have much better adjustability and more shaft travel than the Non-Remotes. I know the 1WNR are marketed as an entry-level "street friendly" solution, but the truth is the 2/3/4WR will give you a better ride on the street as they have much more adjustability. Now you don't need to go all out on a 3 or 4 way set, going with the 2 way already gets you the increased shaft travel and adjustable reservoir. Also, if TT or TA is something you want to do, there are usually class limits on damper adjustability.

Does that mean the Non-Remote is bad?

Absolutely not - from my personal experience, everything MCS makes is stellar. After driving mine extensively now and ridden in a few others (R & NR), they're all awesome. Having said that, I have not experienced a NR package on the street - so you will have to defer to others that have.

So what's best for you?

Well that's the question... and it really depends on how much you would like to spend. The remote setup is substantially more expensive... worthwhile I would say, but eye-wateringly expensive. You're still going to get a great product with the NR dampers and the best thing about MCS is if you want to upgrade them in the future to a 2/3/4WR, you can do just that when you eventually have them rebuilt. All their dampers use the same fundamental hardware. They're all also valved to handle high spring rates so you can run some pretty stiff springs without them rattling your bones.

Also, keep in mind more adjustability doesn't mean better if you have no idea what you are doing. It's very easy to make high end suspension ride like crap / under perform if you set your clickers wrong.

I would suggest sticking with a 1way as they are much more simple for someone newer to the suspension world or at least have an expert dial in your multi adjustable suspension if that's the route you want to go.

[jfritz27]

Since we're talking about dampers, I'll throw out this theory question that I've been thinking about. I don't know much about damper details, so maybe the way I'm thinking about this is totally wrong, but here goes...

Is it accurate to say that, using compression in this example, there is an effective rate corresponding to each click of compression? Eg., with C set at 1, the damper has an effective rate of, say, 400 lb/in (totally making up that number). If that is true, then it seems that taking into account that number (whatever it is for each click) *in relation to the physical spring rate* would/should be an important consideration when thinking about how to tune dampers and what the result will be (?). So if for sake of argument 1C is equiv to 400 lb/in, but your physical coilspring rate is greater at 500 lb/in, what is the damper "doing" in that scenario (in compression)? Nothing at all? Something?

Is this line of thinking generally correct? Maybe it is, and that the effective damper rate, even at the lowest compression, is always higher than most physical coil rates (so it doesn't matter)? I'm also aware that the damper is meant to control the rate of movement (not absolute movement), but it still seems like the relative rate of the physical spring in relation to the damper setting would be an important tuning consideration somehow. Though I've never heard/read about people talking about it, which also makes me think I'm completely wrong

What say you smart people? (FaRKle!, looking at you in particular...)

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by Schultz28

Also, keep in mind more adjustability doesn't mean better if you have no idea what you are doing. It's very easy to make high end suspension ride like crap / under perform if you set your clickers wrong.

I would suggest sticking with a 1way as they are much more simple for someone newer to the suspension world or at least have an expert dial in your multi adjustable suspension if that's the route you want to go.

Agree that more adjustability can be overwhelming and lead to a suboptimal setup - there is some intangible benefit to having less knobs to turn.

I'd say a 2WNR is still worthwhile over a 1WNR for a dual duty setup for the additional compression adjustment. IMO any 2W setup is pretty fool proof tbh - just set C & R to 0 for the street and use the recommended settings from the vendor on track as a starting point. It's very nice to be able to turn compression down even without adjusting rebound.

3 & 4W setups are where things get trickier... and even more expensive T_T

[b_w.]

I am on 2wnr and it is great on the street and track. Felt its worth itfor the little bit extra over 1wnr. Maybe upgrade to remotes at some point. Set it at bw recommend settings until I figure out what I am doing.