Custom E85 & FlexFuel Tuning: Reviews of Different Tuners (MHD, BM3, & EcuTek))

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by Hotflare

Oh shoot you're in chino? I'm from norcal but I'm getting my bend kit installed by cody over @s3xperformance. Definitely would be dope to link up some day when I'm there !

Never heard of that shop. Just let me know, I'll come check it out.

[Hotflare]

Originally Posted by slaughter.mode

Never heard of that shop. Just let me know, I'll come check it out.

It's owned by the tech who was behind all the crankhubs for studio rsr but hell yeah I'll reach out and see if you're free! I'm talking to Ian as we speak

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by Hotflare

It's owned by the tech who was behind all the crankhubs for studio rsr but hell yeah I'll reach out and see if you're free! I'm talking to Ian as we speak

Ahh is that Cody? He did my first hub. He’s an incredible mechanic.

[hellokitty]

Bend told me to upgrade to EU5 injectors, which I ordered from FCP tonight. I think my injectors may be getting weaker and not strong enough to run full E85 since I have about 48k miles on them.

He also said I need to switch to ECUTEK for full EU5 compatibility since BM3 doesn't have all of the tables required to properly tune for EU5s despite there being a pre-flash option in the map configuration for EU5s.

Looks like I will be moving to ECUTEK in the near future haha.

[Commanderwiggin]

Highly recommend Ecutek! I even tried BM3 on my X3M and the interface/tuning on the customer side has been a poor experience by comparison to Ecutek on my M2C; I say that lightly since I was ultra annoyed with all the BM3 software updates and the poor logging with BM3 by comparison. I lost so many logs at the start of BM3. Anyways you can’t go wrong with Bend on either platform but Ecutek definitely has the highest capability. Bend even tunes MHD in some cases and they’ve told me great things about the MHD team so I might have to try my next car with them so I can get the full experience much like the OP did with all the tunes.

Also my favorite thing with Ecutek is I don’t have to disconnect carplay…I know sometimes it’s the little things lol.

[F80RN]

Gotta chime in after Revision 6:

Bend told me the tune off pump fuel is pretty dialed in, but won’t progress any further as he see the WGDC are high. He wants me to address that before progressing further.

As a consumer that puts my mind at ease because I feel safe knowing that he was really paying attention to the data I sent over to him.

I’m not speaking ill of other tuners as I do not have experience with them; but being this is my first time going with a custom tune, I definitely feel that they are being meticulous.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by slaughter.mode

I am on BM3. Oddly it’s the opposite for me. The rough idle (warm starts of all things) are a bit ‘idle hunty’ when E content is minimum (E10 or less). E20-E70 so far cold and warm starts are smooth as stock. Haven’t captured logs to run this by Bend yet but will at the end. Could just be my worn out F8S plugs.

Just as an update, I switched over to MHD today and my cold start problem went away completely.

Hopefully Bend will be able to tune me on MHD. I really don’t want to buy an ECUTEK license if I can avoid it. At least I know it was a BM3 issue now rather than me having a hardware issue.

[Wanted_M]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Bend told me to upgrade to EU5 injectors, which I ordered from FCP tonight. I think my injectors may be getting weaker and not strong enough to run full E85 since I have about 48k miles on them.

He also said I need to switch to ECUTEK for full EU5 compatibility since BM3 doesn't have all of the tables required to properly tune for EU5s despite there being a pre-flash option in the map configuration for EU5s.

Looks like I will be moving to ECUTEK in the near future haha.

They know their stuff, look into upgrading to Dorch with EU5's if you can

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Just as an update, I switched over to MHD today and my cold start problem went away completely.

Hopefully Bend will be able to tune me on MHD. I really don’t want to buy an ECUTEK license if I can avoid it. At least I know it was a BM3 issue now rather than me having a hardware issue.

What tune on BM3 was giving you issues? I know the BM3 OTS maps are pretty ragged (especially the Flex ones) but my BEND tune is incredible. I don’t think Bend will ever touch MHD for many technical reasons beyond my expertise but that’s the notion they implied when I asked originally.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin

Highly recommend Ecutek! I even tried BM3 on my X3M and the interface/tuning on the customer side has been a poor experience by comparison to Ecutek on my M2C; I say that lightly since I was ultra annoyed with all the BM3 software updates and the poor logging with BM3 by comparison. I lost so many logs at the start of BM3. Anyways you can’t go wrong with Bend on either platform but Ecutek definitely has the highest capability. Bend even tunes MHD in some cases and they’ve told me great things about the MHD team so I might have to try my next car with them so I can get the full experience much like the OP did with all the tunes.

Also my favorite thing with Ecutek is I don’t have to disconnect carplay…I know sometimes it’s the little things lol.

Interesting they didn’t want to touch MHD in my case, maybe it’s different for different platform or use case. Maybe with supplemental fueling and a Motiv they would consider it since BM3 doesn’t really support it and MHD is at least aware. Who knows but whatever platform, Bend will deliver. If I didn’t have an extra iPhone dedicated to just tuning and logging I’d probably really appreciate the CarPlay point.

[chewbakam4]

So much mention of Bend with virtually zero results in the real world when so many others have great results. I’ve been around this neck of the woods for far too long to know ecutek is nothing but another tool and in the hands of a good seasoned tuner all these will make the same power. I tried it and went back to bm3 a year ago. It just doesn't compare for end users for so many reasons especially with the new bm3 app and wifi dongle.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

So much mention of Bend with virtually zero results in the real world when so many others have great results. I’ve been around this neck of the woods for far too long to know ecutek is nothing but another tool and in the hands of a good seasoned tuner all these will make the same power. I tried it and went back to bm3 a year ago. It just doesn't compare for end users for so many reasons especially with the new bm3 app and wifi dongle.

I agree, the tool is only as good as the wielder and I am super glad to be back on BM3 also. I think EcuTek does have some features that can outshine BM3 and MHD in certain situations and configurations. I was told by a few tuners that EcuTek has adaptive/dynamic features that allow the tune to adjust based on engine health signals. This is very important for supplemental fueling. I think both BM3 and MHD handle supplemental fueling (Motiv, etc.) in a static fashion where EcuTek can listen to signals and adjust. That is a pretty huge benefit. For everyone else though without supplemental fueling I don't really see the huge benefit. These cars with the config I highlighted are all going to make about the same power from every seasoned tuner but how it's delivered is the secret sauce. The Bend Map 1 Flat / Map 2 Full is incredible. I don't know anyone else that offers that.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by slaughter.mode

What tune on BM3 was giving you issues? I know the BM3 OTS maps are pretty ragged (especially the Flex ones) but my BEND tune is incredible. I don’t think Bend will ever touch MHD for many technical reasons beyond my expertise but that’s the notion they implied when I asked originally.

I tried both BM3 Multimap Stage 1 and Stage 2. Also had the same issue with Cary Jorden Stage 2 FlexFuel map on BM3.

It's definitely a BM3 issue.

Its been a couple of days with cold starts in the 50-60f temp range in the morning and NO MORE IDLE ISSUES!!!

I am just super happy about that now lol... its a huge W for me.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

I tried both BM3 Multimap Stage 1 and Stage 2. Also had the same issue with Cary Jorden Stage 2 FlexFuel map on BM3.

It's definitely a BM3 issue.

Its been a couple of days with cold starts in the 50-60f temp range in the morning and NO MORE IDLE ISSUES!!!

I am just super happy about that now lol... its a huge W for me.

I agree, the OTS FlexFuel maps on BM3 gave me a lot of grief with idle. Even died a few times. Didn't matter if the E content was high or low or even if it was cold, warm or hot starts. Resetting idle adaptations did fix it for me though. Cary should definitely fixed it for you if the adaptations didn't do it. MHD out the box / OTS maps did give me a better idle out of the box though, for sure.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by slaughter.mode

I agree, the OTS FlexFuel maps on BM3 gave me a lot of grief with idle. Even died a few times. Didn't matter if the E content was high or low or even if it was cold, warm or hot starts. Resetting idle adaptations did fix it for me though. Cary should definitely fixed it for you if the adaptations didn't do it. MHD out the box / OTS maps did give me a better idle out of the box though, for sure.

Unfortunately, Cary never was able to get it to work properly.

Keep in mind he worked on my car about 2 years ago so maybe BM3 added some tables to help based on present technology.

With that said, I am in the process of speaking to Ian regarding tuning on MHD. He seems open to it based on preliminary talks. However his partner is the MHD specialist so there is some internal coordination that needs to take place before they can take me on as a client.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Unfortunately, Cary never was able to get it to work properly.

Keep in mind he worked on my car about 2 years ago so maybe BM3 added some tables to help based on present technology.

With that said, I am in the process of speaking to Ian regarding tuning on MHD. He seems open to it based on preliminary talks. However his partner is the MHD specialist so there is some internal coordination that needs to take place before they can take me on as a client.

That is very unfortunate! I'm surprised he didn't chase it down. Even the most minor quirks in my tune he figured out for me. They also offer 1 year support post delivery, so they definitely had time to do it. Ian's partner is just as good so if he can do it even on MHD I am sure it's going to be great. Definitely curious to see how that turns out.

[chewbakam4]

Originally Posted by slaughter.mode

I agree, the tool is only as good as the wielder and I am super glad to be back on BM3 also. I think EcuTek does have some features that can outshine BM3 and MHD in certain situations and configurations. I was told by a few tuners that EcuTek has adaptive/dynamic features that allow the tune to adjust based on engine health signals. This is very important for supplemental fueling. I think both BM3 and MHD handle supplemental fueling (Motiv, etc.) in a static fashion where EcuTek can listen to signals and adjust. That is a pretty huge benefit. For everyone else though without supplemental fueling I don't really see the huge benefit. These cars with the config I highlighted are all going to make about the same power from every seasoned tuner but how it's delivered is the secret sauce. The Bend Map 1 Flat / Map 2 Full is incredible. I don't know anyone else that offers that.

Any seasoned tuner can do a custom map of any sort but to say one tool is “better” than the other, meh. I’ve been there done that, spent the $, its not worth it at all and actually felt I lost more than I gained.

[m5_mbb7]

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

So much mention of Bend with virtually zero results in the real world when so many others have great results. I’ve been around this neck of the woods for far too long to know ecutek is nothing but another tool and in the hands of a good seasoned tuner all these will make the same power. I tried it and went back to bm3 a year ago. It just doesn't compare for end users for so many reasons especially with the new bm3 app and wifi dongle.

This comment sounds an little ignorant so let me put my honest opinion here. Chewbakm4, I’ve seen your posts shilling bm3 in almost every ecutek versus bm3 thread and you are always processing the benefits of bootmod over other platforms. Unfortunately, from my knowledge, you’re just plain wrong and it seems like you have convinced yourself that bm3 is better without any basis. Ecutek has thousands of additional tables that give tuners more in depth control of your ecu strategies and boost control and even has the ability to program custom 3-D mappings (2 independent variables, 1 dependent) with any parameters you want to create truly custom strategies for a car. I don’t know how to tune cars personally but this knowledge is from a very reputable tuner that tunes on both platforms in this case.

I tried bootmod for a month, partially because of yours and other people’s comments professing it as almost a “gift from god” to the tuning community. Used both their flex fuel OTS stage 2 map and got a custom tune from Cary Jordan for my car done on a dyno at EAS. The result? Car ran like garbage, having issues both on OTS and Cary Jordan. I was getting misfire codes, Jordan ignored many of my comments asking for revisions to the tune, and more. Everything was done mechanically. Plugs, injectors, crank hub, etc. I swapped hardware out to try and fix the issues and they did nothing. This was a 15k mile m2 comp that had never had an issue before and it would never give me an issue (knock on wood) after switching off BM3. I decided I didn’t want to take chances with my $20,000 motor and bit the bullet and hit up Ian, whom I already talked with when I bought my flexfuel kit from bend.

I had major issues switching to ecutek, none of which were bend’s fault (and I can’t blame ecutek for it either because I was one of the first people to make the switch using a cloned DME in my 2021 M2C with a very recent calibration ID). My car sat for weeks waiting for an update to the ecutek software, but once that was done and since starting the tuning process, my car has never thrown a SINGLE code since (save for some issues with fuel starvation on track and my heat exchanger drain bolt coming loose). I have over 30 revisions to my files across a bunch of different major hardware setups—from stock with crank hub done and EU5, to upgraded pure stage 2 high flows, to those + dorch lift kit. The car has run beautifully, torque is managed so smoothly in my three different maps - soft torque, full torque, and road course (flat torque basically)

I don’t understand what bend has done to you for you to bash on them saying they have no “real results”. They hold the stock turbo S58 world record, OG Shark’s Project 223 M2c is tuned by them and practically lives at the track, and they tune cars with literally horsepower in the thousands. Plenty of results from them tuning other fast S55s—most cars in an m2 track discord I’m in runs Bend as well. They’re the ones that have so much data from clients that they can run comprehensive tests on different hardware setups such as intercoolers, turbos, and fueling and publish their results on a blog. I have never seen another F8X tuner do something like that.

Bottom line is, yes Ecutek with Bend may be a pain in the ass to switch to. It’s expensive, sure. I even had to buy a whole laptop that I leave in my car 24/7 only to tune the car. My car sat for weeks waiting for a custom beta version from the Ecutek team to their software (I don’t think anyone else will have this issue ever though). At the end of the day, it was worth it for the security alone of preserving the most important part in my car, the engine, and the additional ridiculous power gains sweeten the deal so much. YMMV on different tuners and you’re right about platforms just being a tool in a tuners toolbox. But when it comes to ecutek with bend, that is the best combo you can get hands down and they have the data and reputation to back it up.

[chewbakam4]

Clearly you never opened the map editor in ecutek and bm3 and compared. Ask bend how many tables show up in ecutek and do the same in bm3. I’ll tell you right now that bm3 has 3500-4500 tables and ecutek last time I looked a year ago had around 1500-2000. So there’s that, no point arguing simple facts that can so easily be cross checked. As for custom tune, sounds like you had issues with Cary’s custom map for some reason and you worked it out with Bend, great. If you’re saying Bend couldn’t do the same in bm3 that is a flat out lie. Prove it or have them prove factually what it is that for a bolton car on ethanol they couldn’t do with bm3. I’ll tell you right now again, if there’s anything bm3 doesn’t lack in is the amount of tables they got. They have the most of any tool. Why argue such easily verifiable facts? Open a map in any of them and just look for yourself. bm3 doesn’t have PI and doesn’t have ability to make an extra 10-20 custom tables but we’re not talking thousands, its literally 10-20 custom as per their own documentation online. I never said ecutek or anything is bad. In fact I said in the hands of a seasoned tuner all these tools will accomplish the same power gains and whatever else is needed. I also never said Bend is bad or anything of the sort so don’t put words in my mouth.

[heitzke]

The EcuTek swap was indeed not cheap to do, nor was the tuning. I started off with BM3, used Paul to tune my first setup on stock fueling and then wanted to work with Bend so made the switch. I can't really compare them TOO directly because my setup evolved during this time.

EcuTek app works well, the setup/installation process is a little clunky in comparison to BM3 but I do love the addition of my fast-logging and additional OBD2 port as part of EcuTek.

I didn't have problems with BM3 per se, and also can't say it was ever a BM3 issue alone that my car didn't run amazingly well. Too many factors in play. I swapped to EcuTek, retuned and I'm amazingly happy with the vehicle now.

[theweebabySeamus]

If I was doing a serious build I would likely ditch BM3 for ECUtek.

Bend didn’t actually use BM3 until recently, some kind of changes PTF made around their tuning suite and tuner support. That, and no forum presence, could be why you see less mention of them.

[slaughter.mode]

Originally Posted by theweebabySeamus

If I was doing a serious build I would likely ditch BM3 for ECUtek.

Bend didn’t actually use BM3 until recently, some kind of changes PTF made around their tuning suite and tuner support. That, and no forum presence, could be why you see less mention of them.

Yep, there's way more market in the BM3 platform and Bend and other tuners told me they really like how much BM3 has matured and continues to evolve. I personally, as a software engineer and major UI/UX critic, love the way it operates and that's honestly my main reason why I use it. That and the convenient steering wheel controls. It's the little things!