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      06-19-2015, 06:50 PM   #67
ilikebmxbikes
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So you think two cars the same in every aspect except the wide body would favor the stock car on a track? I'm just asking not trying to be a dick......have you been on a track with a car bud. Then have you been on that same track with that same car after suspension or traction improvements? If the wide body car only had 25mm spacers or more....it's still gonna handle better dude. 2"of stance all around may sound minuscule to you but it would yield seconds different in times. I guess we'll have to wait for Topgear or some show to definitively answer this.
Yes, I think a car that is as exaggeratedly wide as the Vorsteiner and LB cars are handicapped on the track. Heavier wheels, more stress, non optimized suspension angles will make a worse handling car. The stress alone on the steering rack.... And yes, i do drive my cars on the track. You will be waiting a long time for topgear or anyone else for that matter to put down solid laptimes in these cars. We havent seen any LB cars putting down any record setting times over regular bodied e9x's have we? i also have friends with LB and other wide bodied cars - they do not claim them as a functional improvement but rather enjoy them more for show.

Go tell Lukester he needs a Vorsteiner or Libertywalk kit to improve his track times with more grip.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1137714

( i am by no way disrespecting vorsteiner - i think their kits and products are cool)
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      06-19-2015, 09:06 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrippy View Post
So you think two cars the same in every aspect except the wide body would favor the stock car on a track? I'm just asking not trying to be a dick......have you been on a track with a car bud. Then have you been on that same track with that same car after suspension or traction improvements? If the wide body car only had 25mm spacers or more....it's still gonna handle better dude. 2"of stance all around may sound minuscule to you but it would yield seconds different in times. I guess we'll have to wait for Topgear or some show to definitively answer this.
Read the guys sig. He's got a 135 with a 1M wide body, an M3 V8 inside, stop tech brakes, AST, suspension, gutted, caged... it looks track car and the link in his sig shows him at the track.

If slapping on 25mm spaces took seconds off lap times, I'm sure BMW would probably do it.
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Last edited by Capt Crunch; 06-19-2015 at 09:12 PM..
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      06-20-2015, 01:15 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Capt Crunch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrippy View Post
So you think two cars the same in every aspect except the wide body would favor the stock car on a track? I'm just asking not trying to be a dick......have you been on a track with a car bud. Then have you been on that same track with that same car after suspension or traction improvements? If the wide body car only had 25mm spacers or more....it's still gonna handle better dude. 2"of stance all around may sound minuscule to you but it would yield seconds different in times. I guess we'll have to wait for Topgear or some show to definitively answer this.
Read the guys sig. He's got a 135 with a 1M wide body, an M3 V8 inside, stop tech brakes, AST, suspension, gutted, caged... it looks track car and the link in his sig shows him at the track.

If slapping on 25mm spaces took seconds off lap times, I'm sure BMW would probably do it.
I'm not talking about a track car dude! I'm sayin stock n stock but one has a wider track....pretend it would fit without the wide body......do you think the spaced one would have more or less grip in a corner? Simple physics bud.....take a 10"X10" block with wheels flush at 10grams......now take a 10"X10" block with wheels that are .025 past flush at 10grams.......push them down an incline drop that turns 90 degrees with a 20-45degree bank with no walls........if you looked at the trails from above the wider stance could hold a tighter line before succumbing to the pull outward. Mass for mass, friction coefficient equal, you would see what I'm talking about. Maybe not a vast amount of time but it would prove a shorter lap. Biggest fact of all is bootyass NASCAR.....they do circle after circle.....think the setup is the same between clockwise and counterclockwise????
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      06-20-2015, 12:05 PM   #70
ilikebmxbikes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrippy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Crunch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrippy View Post
So you think two cars the same in every aspect except the wide body would favor the stock car on a track? I'm just asking not trying to be a dick......have you been on a track with a car bud. Then have you been on that same track with that same car after suspension or traction improvements? If the wide body car only had 25mm spacers or more....it's still gonna handle better dude. 2"of stance all around may sound minuscule to you but it would yield seconds different in times. I guess we'll have to wait for Topgear or some show to definitively answer this.
Read the guys sig. He's got a 135 with a 1M wide body, an M3 V8 inside, stop tech brakes, AST, suspension, gutted, caged... it looks track car and the link in his sig shows him at the track.

If slapping on 25mm spaces took seconds off lap times, I'm sure BMW would probably do it.
I'm not talking about a track car dude! I'm sayin stock n stock but one has a wider track....pretend it would fit without the wide body......do you think the spaced one would have more or less grip in a corner? Simple physics bud.....take a 10"X10" block with wheels flush at 10grams......now take a 10"X10" block with wheels that are .025 past flush at 10grams.......push them down an incline drop that turns 90 degrees with a 20-45degree bank with no walls........if you looked at the trails from above the wider stance could hold a tighter line before succumbing to the pull outward. Mass for mass, friction coefficient equal, you would see what I'm talking about. Maybe not a vast amount of time but it would prove a shorter lap. Biggest fact of all is bootyass NASCAR.....they do circle after circle.....think the setup is the same between clockwise and counterclockwise????
I agree with you from a general standpoint but talking about these cars specificacally with these very wide kits without changing the rest of the suspension set up is a lot larger of a handicap than the benefits it brings.

Also- widening the fender arch without increasing the size of the wheel well, decreases a lot of your turning radius.
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      06-21-2015, 08:46 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrippy View Post
I'm not talking about a track car dude! I'm sayin stock n stock but one has a wider track....pretend it would fit without the wide body......do you think the spaced one would have more or less grip in a corner? Simple physics bud.....take a 10"X10" block with wheels flush at 10grams......now take a 10"X10" block with wheels that are .025 past flush at 10grams.......push them down an incline drop that turns 90 degrees with a 20-45degree bank with no walls........if you looked at the trails from above the wider stance could hold a tighter line before succumbing to the pull outward. Mass for mass, friction coefficient equal, you would see what I'm talking about. Maybe not a vast amount of time but it would prove a shorter lap. Biggest fact of all is bootyass NASCAR.....they do circle after circle.....think the setup is the same between clockwise and counterclockwise????
I get the physics, I majored in it. As engineers love to point out, real life isn't that simple. I agree, all else being equal, a wider track will generate faster lap times, the problem is that wider tracks change the suspension geometry, which screws up traction in other areas. I pointed out that olikebmxbikes has a track car because he likely has experience on the track.
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      06-21-2015, 02:06 PM   #72
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Great job Vorsteiner! This AY beast and the Black M4 from Tag, are simply awesome.

I think the kit suits a black car slightly better due to the lines on the side. And with the mint green brakes, that Tag M4 looks beautiful and is my favorite.
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      06-21-2015, 11:22 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Crunch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrippy View Post
I'm not talking about a track car dude! I'm sayin stock n stock but one has a wider track....pretend it would fit without the wide body......do you think the spaced one would have more or less grip in a corner? Simple physics bud.....take a 10"X10" block with wheels flush at 10grams......now take a 10"X10" block with wheels that are .025 past flush at 10grams.......push them down an incline drop that turns 90 degrees with a 20-45degree bank with no walls........if you looked at the trails from above the wider stance could hold a tighter line before succumbing to the pull outward. Mass for mass, friction coefficient equal, you would see what I'm talking about. Maybe not a vast amount of time but it would prove a shorter lap. Biggest fact of all is bootyass NASCAR.....they do circle after circle.....think the setup is the same between clockwise and counterclockwise????
I get the physics, I majored in it. As engineers love to point out, real life isn't that simple. I agree, all else being equal, a wider track will generate faster lap times, the problem is that wider tracks change the suspension geometry, which screws up traction in other areas. I pointed out that olikebmxbikes has a track car because he likely has experience on the track.
Gotcha. Yeah I wasn't saying it's like 3 seconds on a lap or anything, just that it helps. I do love the look of the wide bodies though! I saw a bunch at Bimmerfest too. I think the kits that are a whole new piece on the rear quarter panel are the only way to go. The bolt on look isn't so nice.
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