New guy asking for advice - 2013 M3 or 2016 M4?

[SCKOMS]

Greetings. I'm considering adding another car. Something that can serve as a DD but also do HPDE duty.

Some background info...I just returned a leased 2017 NSX early because I never fell in love with the car...it was crazy fast, but too digital. It just did not feel engaging. Prior to that I had a 2011 R8 V10 spyder that I loved and regret trading for the NSX. My current "track car" is a 2006 Ferrari 430 spider (F1 tranny) and I'm looking to give it a break but want something with reasonably close performance and handling.

I have driven both a 2013 M3 (frozen black...gorgeous!) and a 2016 M4 convertible (drop top is a must) and I like both cars. Obviously the M4 is faster with a lot more torque and with better tech, but which provides a better "driving experience"? If I get the M3 will I be lusting after more power?

I know these things are highly subjective but I would appreciate any insights form owners, preferably those that have owned both...I am also posting this in the M3 forum to get responses from both sides.

Thanks in advance

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by SCKOMS

Greetings. I'm considering adding another car. Something that can serve as a DD but also do HPDE duty.

Some background info...I just returned a leased 2017 NSX early because I never fell in love with the car...it was crazy fast, but too digital. It just did not feel engaging. Prior to that I had a 2011 R8 V10 spyder that I loved and regret trading for the NSX. My current "track car" is a 2006 Ferrari 430 spider (F1 tranny) and I'm looking to give it a break but want something with reasonably close performance and handling.

I have driven both a 2013 M3 (frozen black...gorgeous!) and a 2016 M4 convertible (drop top is a must) and I like both cars. Obviously the M4 is faster with a lot more torque and with better tech, but which provides a better "driving experience"? If I get the M3 will I be lusting after more power?

I know these things are highly subjective but I would appreciate any insights form owners, preferably those that have owned both...I am also posting this in the M3 forum to get responses from both sides.

Thanks in advance

Get the M4. Your body is too used to the G forces from other cars. The E90 M3 does not have the torque. The F82 M4 does.

[sna66]

Get the M4. Your body is too used to the G forces from other cars. The E90 M3 does not have the torque. The F82 M4 does.[/QUOTE]

Exactly... drive both, I'm sure the torque of the f83 (and drop top) will win

[Tommy L Garage]

Get the M4
You sit too high in the E9X series. That itself would be a deal breaker for me.

...although I’d just get a GT3

[Keca10]

E90 is a special experience because of the engine and sound. NA V8 would be predictable and responsive for HPDE duty. However it’s pretty outdated on the inside. There is no room to tune easily if you decide power or torque is underwhelming. Oh and Steering feel is much better than F8X. But other handling aspects of the F8x are better (ridgid chassis, you can tell what the rear is doing, etc...)

I chose the F8x platform because I do drive it a lot and I enjoy moderns features and I love the looks. it can be tuned easily if I ever get bored. Still sounds good with MPE. Torque errrrrwhere is nice. And they did a nice job with ZCP overall. In the end it was an emotional decision.

There is no wrong way to go here.

[SCKOMS]

Originally Posted by Keca10

E90 is a special experience because of the engine and sound. NA V8 would be predictable and responsive for HPDE duty. However it’s pretty outdated on the inside. There is no room to tune easily if you decide power or torque is underwhelming. Oh and Steering feel is much better than F8X. But other handling aspects of the F8x are better (ridgid chassis, you can tell what the rear is doing, etc...)

I chose the F8x platform because I do drive it a lot and I enjoy moderns features and I love the looks. it can be tuned easily if I ever get bored. Still sounds good with MPE. Torque errrrrwhere is nice. And they did a nice job with ZCP overall. In the end it was an emotional decision.

There is no wrong way to go here.

Great post....thanks

[SYT_Shadow]

OP, I have two E9Xs and a F80 CS

The CS is a great car, however, for street use I don't think it can compete against a E9X.

The F8X generation in general is great, it has better tech stuff, is appreciable faster on track and is generally newer.
However, the E9X generation has significantly better steering and much, much better sound. An E9X with a loudish exhaust and xpipe plus something like the Karbonius intake is, IMO, just about the perfect car to enjoy driving if you are not worried about the stopwatch.

Particularly if you are looking at convertibles I find the F8X an even bigger miss. The E93 is still pretty fast and experiencing the sound without a roof does not get old quickly.

Supercharging with a known, reliable company like ESS is quite safe. I personally do not supercharge cars because I find redlining a couple gears in a E9X to easily land you in jail so I do not need to go any faster on the street. Also, I do not want to lose the intake sound which I really enjoy and that is definitely amplified using a Karbonius intake.

I've driven many vehicles. 750hp M5 competition, GT3s of all eras, you name it. I don't enjoy anything as much as I enjoy the E9X generation M3.

[mjposner]

I have had both an E93 and F83 and to be honest I think I prefer the E93. More predictable I guess. That said, I hear that the comp edition F8x is the way to go for any track duty.

[Darth One]

Mmmf if you returned a 2nd gen NSX because it wasn't engaging enough, you might not like the F8x. It's a great car but clearly your standards are high in that arena.

The E90 I think is more like your R8 in that department. Slower, requires more effort to get the most out of it, but I'd agree it's more fun

[FormulaMMM]

Both would be convertible? Or just the M4?

I don't know about overcoming the extra 400+ lbs in the E93 for regular track use. If both are convertible, the added power, rigidity and chassis advancements of the M4 will give you a better starting point.

If you're talking a frozen black E92 vs a vert M4, and you're willing to throw some mods at the E92, then that's the easy choice imo. E92 with catless exhaust + tune provides a real boost, big brake kit, track wheels + tires, coilovers (if you're willing to go that far), and you've surpassed the M4 vert in both pace and entertainment, your f430 spyder in pace, but maybe not entertainment...

[SCKOMS]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Both would be convertible? Or just the M4?

I don't know about overcoming the extra 400+ lbs in the E93 for regular track use. If both are convertible, the added power, rigidity and chassis advancements of the M4 will give you a better starting point.

If you're talking a frozen black E92 vs a vert M4, and you're willing to throw some mods at the E92, then that's the easy choice imo. E92 with catless exhaust + tune provides a real boost, big brake kit, track wheels + tires, coilovers (if you're willing to go that far), and you've surpassed the M4 vert in both pace and entertainment, your f430 spyder in pace, but maybe not entertainment...

Both would be convertibles.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by SCKOMS

Both would be convertibles.

If you're prioritizing track performance/pace, the E93 begins with too much of a weight penalty (vs E90 & E92) and chassis disadvantage as compared to the M4. especially with your f430 spyder reference point in mind. 2c

[SCKOMS]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

If you're prioritizing track performance/pace, the E93 begins with too much of a weight penalty (vs E90 & E92) and chassis disadvantage as compared to the M4. especially with your f430 spyder reference point in mind. 2c

I definitely don't have to be the fastest car at the track....I'm getting passed by quite a few cars in my F430. For me, at least, it's more about the experience of hitting the right lines, throwing it around the curves and generally having fun.

It seems the M4 would be more or less good to go as is, while the M3 will likely end up getting some mods....both would be more than capable....tough decision! It's essentially impossible to really test drive these cars in a manner that will be revealing of their ultimate track performance.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by SCKOMS

I definitely don't have to be the fastest car at the track....I'm getting passed by quite a few cars in my F430. For me, at least, it's more about the experience of hitting the right lines, throwing it around the curves and generally having fun.

It seems the M4 would be more or less good to go as is, while the M3 will likely end up getting some mods....both would be more than capable....tough decision! It's essentially impossible to really test drive these cars in a manner that will be revealing of their ultimate track performance.

Both will need a bit of brake work for sustained track sessions.

M4 vert starting point and ceiling both quite a bit higher than the E93. The V8's song is dulled by a helmet. There was a gigantic leap from stock E9X chassis to stock F8X.

[Keca10]

For track fun I think NA V8 would be more fun.

My E60 M5 became a totally different car on the track. It was pretty amazing. When in high revs that engine just becomes alive. The V8 is pretty close to the V10 in that generation.

I have yet to track the F80 though.

[SCKOMS]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Both will need a bit of brake work for sustained track sessions.

I was planing on changing fluid to Castrol SRF and installing track pads.....anything beyond that?

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by SCKOMS

I was planing on changing fluid to Castrol SRF and installing track pads.....anything beyond that?

That'll work for the track action you describe

[MaynardZed]

You said you wanted engaging? Get the Porsche then

[nicknaz]

Does it need to be 4 seat? And are you sure your local track clubs allow those cars?

[SCKOMS]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Does it need to be 4 seat? And are you sure your local track clubs allow those cars?

I prefer the practicality of a 4 seater. I see lots of Mustangs and M3 sedans at the events. These are generally open track days that I attend.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by SCKOMS

I prefer the practicality of a 4 seater. I see lots of Mustangs and M3 sedans at the events. These are generally open track days that I attend.

I used to have a z4 and because it was a vert it wasn’t allowed by many clubs, such bmwcca

My $0.02 would be to get a fixed roof car

[Pauldunlop13]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Does it need to be 4 seat? And are you sure your local track clubs allow those cars?

Good point. I recently tried to register for a track event in CO and convertibles are not allowed.