Essex AP BBK long term ownership review vs CCB

[CAOZKAN]

Originally Posted by blackey

FYI Porterfield R4S fit these are are completely silent. I run these for the street and Hawk DTC70 for the track.

Did you ever use Ferodo DSUNO? How are the ones from Hawk comparing to Ferodo? I really like Ferodo but I would be happier if I can find a cheaper option for the track (assuming Hawk is cheaper than them)..

[bracer]

I tried the DS1.11 and the DS2500 (car came with them when I bought it). I didn't like either, and they also left pad deposits which would drive me nuts.

I didn't try the DSUNU. I've been tracking for a long time and just switched to what I know.

My favorite track pads are Hawk DTC70, Raybestos ST41, and Cobalt XR1's.

[paffinity]

Sorry to refresh old thread, but was hoping for an update on these brakes. Have you had to replace the rotors yet? How many track days on them before doing so?

[CAOZKAN]

Originally Posted by paffinity

Sorry to refresh old thread, but was hoping for an update on these brakes. Have you had to replace the rotors yet? How many track days on them before doing so?

I have changed the fronts due to a small crack. They crack before they go thin. Their durability were extremely good, I had slightly more than a year of tracking on a GP circuit before I change them. To give you a better idea it took around 500 laps to crack them and lots of daily driving. Rears are still fine.

[Intensemojo]

Just got a set of 9668s. First track day with them is this Monday.

[CAOZKAN]

Originally Posted by Intensemojo

Just got a set of 9668s. First track day with them is this Monday.

I'm sure you will be amazed! Let me know how do you like them.

[jpy1980]

I see that most people are getting both the front and rear Essex AP brakes. Would the brake bias be that off if you only went with the fronts?

[FlyingLow78]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

I see that most people are getting both the front and rear Essex AP brakes. Would the brake bias be that off if you only went with the fronts?

I got only fronts and it was absolutely fine for the 11 tracks days I did this year. The rears do very little on the F8X, as evidenced by the number of pad changes I did on the front compared to zero pad changes on the rear.

[CAOZKAN]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

I see that most people are getting both the front and rear Essex AP brakes. Would the brake bias be that off if you only went with the fronts?

In my case, since I had my car with CCB, it was my only choice. My brakepads change ratio with both front and rear set is 2-1 skewed towards front.

[jpy1980]

Got it! Thanks for the response guys!

Also, why did some of you choose the 9660 vs the 9668?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

Got it! Thanks for the response guys!

Also, why did some of you choose the 9660 vs the 9668?

Primary reasons would be wheel fitment and frequency of pad changes. The 9668 uses a 25 mm thick pad whereas the 9660 uses a 17 mm thick pad so the 9668 caliper is wider and the caliper width is biased toward the outside. Secondary reasons would be initial cost, slight weight savings, pad cost (some brands the cost delta is large, others there’s only a small cost delta)...but here’s a link to Essex’s comparison of the 9668 vs. 9660 calipers:
https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...9660-or-cp9668

[jmciver]

Reviving this thread to ask a related question that was not worth starting a new thread given the subject of this one....

How many of you that have run this kit long term (either with the 9660 or 9668 calipers) run it with the stock aluminum dust shields removed AND daily drive your cars as well? Any pre-mature wear/tear/damage to suspension components, bushings, harnesses, sensors, etc. due to a lack of brake dust shield when driving on the street (or track)?

Why am I asking? I have been doing some research on purchasing a BBK and the issue of brake cooling always comes up. The brake ducting solutions for the F8x are all less than optimal (as many of you already know). Another solution to assist with keeping the brakes cool - or more specifically keeping temps uniform across the rotor, is to remove the OEM aluminum dust shields. But I have been unable to find much info on the cons of running without the OEM brake dust shields on the street long term.

My car does not see wintery weather/road salt, so that is not a concern for me - if it is even relevant to running without brake dust shields. Also, brake dust does not seem like it should be a real concern either since that can be mitigated with low dust pads and washing the car.

Thanks in advance for the insight!!

[CAOZKAN]

Originally Posted by jmciver

Reviving this thread to ask a related question that was not worth starting a new thread given the subject of this one....

How many of you that have run this kit long term (either with the 9660 or 9668 calipers) run it with the stock aluminum dust shields removed AND daily drive your cars as well? Any pre-mature wear/tear/damage to suspension components, bushings, harnesses, sensors, etc. due to a lack of brake dust shield when driving on the street (or track)?

Why am I asking? I have been doing some research on purchasing a BBK and the issue of brake cooling always comes up. The brake ducting solutions for the F8x are all less than optimal (as many of you already know). Another solution to assist with keeping the brakes cool - or more specifically keeping temps uniform across the rotor, is to remove the OEM aluminum dust shields. But I have been unable to find much info on the cons of running without the OEM brake dust shields on the street long term.

My car does not see wintery weather/road salt, so that is not a concern for me - if it is even relevant to running without brake dust shields. Also, brake dust does not seem like it should be a real concern either since that can be mitigated with low dust pads and washing the car.

Thanks in advance for the insight!!

I have been daily driving my car without the dust shields for a very long time. I didn't have any trouble in terms of suspension or harness. I only had to change wheel speed sensor on the rear right recently but I'm not sure if it had anything related to the dust shield as the car has 70k miles now. It may have been due to the simply fact that car is old now..

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by CAOZKAN

I have been daily driving my car without the dust shields for a very long time. I didn't have any trouble in terms of suspension or harness. I only had to change wheel speed sensor on the rear right recently but I'm not sure if it had anything related to the dust shield as the car has 70k miles now. It may have been due to the simply fact that car is old now..

Did you add any brake ducts for additional cooling for track use, or was removing the dust shields enough additional cooling to maintain braking performance and not prematurely wear brake components (rotors and pads)?

Also, when driving in the rain without the shields on the street, did you see any degraded brake performance than when the shields were installed?

Thanks!

[SYT_Shadow]

I've been using BBKs without dust seals for multiple years

It works fine. I'd be concerned with salt/winter driving, but driving in rain etc long term doesn't do anything. Zero effect on suspension etc when running without heat shields

Cooling ducts etc are completely unnecessary if you have a proper BBK.


Stock brake calipers with the Girodisc rotor conversion and titanium shims and track pads would work very well at the track, and would retain all the streetability of the stock system as well as be cheaper. Just something to keep in mind.

CCB will take light tracking very well, it is serious tracking which destroys them.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I've been using BBKs without dust seals for multiple years

It works fine. I'd be concerned with salt/winter driving, but driving in rain etc long term doesn't do anything. Zero effect on suspension etc when running without heat shields

Cooling ducts etc are completely unnecessary if you have a proper BBK.


Stock brake calipers with the Girodisc rotor conversion and titanium shims and track pads would work very well at the track, and would retain all the streetability of the stock system as well as be cheaper. Just something to keep in mind.

CCB will take light tracking very well, it is serious tracking which destroys them.

Thanks, and that is good to hear (and confirms what I suspected) regarding the cooling benefit and very few cons when running without the OEM dust/heat shields on the street or track. I also appreciate the Girodisc rotor recommendation as a lower cost option to improve braking performance (and cooling) over a full BBK.

I am trying to do 6-8 track days this year (with 6-7 20 min sessions per day), which will be a first for me with the F80. Neither the tracks I intend to go to nor my skill level should overly tax the brakes too much (i.e. enough to turn them green, etc). But I want to address cooling where I can (since duct options suck for the F8x for a myriad of reasons) and help preserve the resale value of my stock calipers to help offset the cost of potential future brake system upgrades.

I still have some life left in my OEM rotors and a set of PFC 08 track pads with only two track days on them. My calipers still look fine (color wise anyway), so I may just remove the dust shields in the front and use some temperature strips to get some data to see where I am at now. I know I am not too hard on my brakes now (I need to grow a bit more of a sack and trust my brakes more in the braking zones ). But I am looking ahead for when I start working my brakes harder as I get more comfortable and faster in my F80. If anyone is curious, tracks on my list for this year include Lime Rock, Palmer and Club Motorsports to name a few - all Northeast/New England tracks.

So another related question... When using the temperature strips to gather data on how hot the brakes (and calipers) are getting, what temperature ranges should I be concerned that a brake upgrade (like Girodisk or a BBK) is needed sooner rather than later, assuming that I get faster as the track season progresses? It would be nice to have a "warning" indicator temperature range before calipers start changing colors - if such a thing is possible.

Thanks again for the insight guys!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jmciver

Thanks, and that is good to hear (and confirms what I suspected) regarding the cooling benefit and very few cons when running without the OEM dust/heat shields on the street or track. I also appreciate the Girodisc rotor recommendation as a lower cost option to improve braking performance (and cooling) over a full BBK.

I am trying to do 6-8 track days this year (with 6-7 20 min sessions per day), which will be a first for me with the F80. Neither the tracks I intend to go to nor my skill level should overly tax the brakes too much (i.e. enough to turn them green, etc). But I want to address cooling where I can (since duct options suck for the F8x for a myriad of reasons) and help preserve the resale value of my stock calipers to help offset the cost of potential future brake system upgrades.

I still have some life left in my OEM rotors and a set of PFC 08 track pads with only two track days on them. My calipers still look fine (color wise anyway), so I may just remove the dust shields in the front and use some temperature strips to get some data to see where I am at now. I know I am not too hard on my brakes now (I need to grow a bit more of a sack and trust my brakes more in the braking zones ). But I am looking ahead for when I start working my brakes harder as I get more comfortable and faster in my F80. If anyone is curious, tracks on my list for this year include Lime Rock, Palmer and Club Motorsports to name a few - all Northeast/New England tracks.

So another related question... When using the temperature strips to gather data on how hot the brakes (and calipers) are getting, what temperature ranges should I be concerned that a brake upgrade (like Girodisk or a BBK) is needed sooner rather than later, assuming that I get faster as the track season progresses? It would be nice to have a "warning" indicator temperature range before calipers start changing colors - if such a thing is possible.

Thanks again for the insight guys!

Based on your description I would try titanium shims and the girodiscs but that's really up to you. 6k for a front bbk to preserve the value of your stock calipers sounds steep.

I'm not sure what temps includes color change. In general calipers should be under 350F at most and with the stock ones I'd say 300F. Note that they get hottest in the paddock after a session if you don't take it very easy braking during your cool down lap.

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by jmciver

Thanks, and that is good to hear (and confirms what I suspected) regarding the cooling benefit and very few cons when running without the OEM dust/heat shields on the street or track. I also appreciate the Girodisc rotor recommendation as a lower cost option to improve braking performance (and cooling) over a full BBK.

I am trying to do 6-8 track days this year (with 6-7 20 min sessions per day), which will be a first for me with the F80. Neither the tracks I intend to go to nor my skill level should overly tax the brakes too much (i.e. enough to turn them green, etc). But I want to address cooling where I can (since duct options suck for the F8x for a myriad of reasons) and help preserve the resale value of my stock calipers to help offset the cost of potential future brake system upgrades.

I still have some life left in my OEM rotors and a set of PFC 08 track pads with only two track days on them. My calipers still look fine (color wise anyway), so I may just remove the dust shields in the front and use some temperature strips to get some data to see where I am at now. I know I am not too hard on my brakes now (I need to grow a bit more of a sack and trust my brakes more in the braking zones ). But I am looking ahead for when I start working my brakes harder as I get more comfortable and faster in my F80. If anyone is curious, tracks on my list for this year include Lime Rock, Palmer and Club Motorsports to name a few - all Northeast/New England tracks.

So another related question... When using the temperature strips to gather data on how hot the brakes (and calipers) are getting, what temperature ranges should I be concerned that a brake upgrade (like Girodisk or a BBK) is needed sooner rather than later, assuming that I get faster as the track season progresses? It would be nice to have a "warning" indicator temperature range before calipers start changing colors - if such a thing is possible.

Thanks again for the insight guys!

Note the nannies will add significant heat to the brake temp equation if you are using MDM

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Based on your description I would try titanium shims and the girodiscs but that's really up to you. 6k for a front bbk to preserve the value of your stock calipers sounds steep.

I'm not sure what temps includes color change. In general calipers should be under 350F at most and with the stock ones I'd say 300F. Note that they get hottest in the paddock after a session if you don't take it very easy braking during your cool down lap.

Appreciate the tips. After some more research and given where I am at with tracking my F80, for now I decided to go with my stock brake setup using Titanium shims (front and rear) and removing the front dust/heat shields, along with my PFC08 pads. I also plan to use some of that brake caliper temperature tape to see where I am at after my first few events this Spring. Barring anything weird happening, my next logical step when my front rotors require replacement (they still have good life left in them) will be the Girodisc rotors as they are a good balance of cost and performance for my needs.

Incidentally, those titanium shims are expensive little buggers for what they are. Took me a little while to find a vendor that sells them in OEM M3/M4 brake pad sizes - I found 2. But like many things track related, you gotta pay for that track performance bling....

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jmciver

Appreciate the tips. After some more research and given where I am at with tracking my F80, for now I decided to go with my stock brake setup using Titanium shims (front and rear) and removing the front dust/heat shields, along with my PFC08 pads. I also plan to use some of that brake caliper temperature tape to see where I am at after my first few events this Spring. Barring anything weird happening, my next logical step when my front rotors require replacement (they still have good life left in them) will be the Girodisc rotors as they are a good balance of cost and performance for my needs.

Incidentally, those titanium shims are expensive little buggers for what they are. Took me a little while to find a vendor that sells them in OEM M3/M4 brake pad sizes - I found 2. But like many things track related, you gotta pay for that track performance bling....

That's a good choice. Also, remember you could save your oem rotors for winter use and use the giro's in summer/track season.
I would not use the giro's in winter.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

That's a good choice. Also, remember you could save your oem rotors for winter use and use the giro's in summer/track season.
I would not use the giro's in winter.

What is the issue with using Girodiscs in the winter with street pads? I live in New England now so my M3 does not see too much street time in the winter unless the temps are at least 45 deg F or higher, and dry salt free roads (don’t want a winter set of wheels/tires since I can drive another car for that purpose).

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jmciver

What is the issue with using Girodiscs in the winter with street pads? I live in New England now so my M3 does not see too much street time in the winter unless the temps are at least 45 deg F or higher, and dry salt free roads (don’t want a winter set of wheels/tires since I can drive another car for that purpose).

The Girodiscs are the same style rotor as track only bbks. You have little bolts, washers, nuts, etc joining the rotor to the hat. I wouldn't want salt to get in there and start corroding stuff. It isn't going to fail as it's coated etc but it can still make disassembly of the rotor/hat a pain.

It's the same issue you'd have with any bbk.

If you don't drive it when there's salt-maggedon outside you should be fine