Bare minimum changes necessary for tracking F8x

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

We were talking about Miata. (image: not my car, but it's exactly like this)

Speaking of our F8X, I am also lazy to carry track tires. It seems quite involving trying to cram in that 305 tires into back seat on my M4.
Thinking about just driving them to Shelton this year but concern is will there be any significant wear on the front inner side of tires during that 300mi round trip.

It's a bit of a chore with an M4 but I manage every time I have a track weekend. I run at Buttonwillow Raceway most often, which is a 5-6 hour drive from San Diego, depending on traffic and weather, and pitstops. The route takes me over The Grapevine, and there are times when it's been pouring rain, either going or coming. There's no way I would drive that on my track tires (NT01s).

Those rear doors make it significantly easier with my wife's M3 though!

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

It's a bit of a chore with an M4 but I manage every time I have a track weekend. I run at Buttonwillow Raceway most often, which is a 5-6 hour drive from San Diego, depending on traffic and weather, and pitstops. The route takes me over The Grapevine, and there are times when it's been pouring rain, either going or coming. There's no way I would drive that on my track tires (NT01s).

Those rear doors make it significantly easier with my wife's M3 though!

ugh right, loading them through the little space between b-pillar and folded front seat is not fun.

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

It's a bit of a chore with an M4 but I manage every time I have a track weekend. I run at Buttonwillow Raceway most often, which is a 5-6 hour drive from San Diego, depending on traffic and weather, and pitstops. The route takes me over The Grapevine, and there are times when it's been pouring rain, either going or coming. There's no way I would drive that on my track tires (NT01s).

Those rear doors make it significantly easier with my wife's M3 though!

Tow hitch and tire trailer.

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

Tow hitch and tire trailer.

But I don't need that! You should have directed your reply to MyFragileHalogen.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

It's a bit of a chore with an M4 but I manage every time I have a track weekend. I run at Buttonwillow Raceway most often, which is a 5-6 hour drive from San Diego, depending on traffic and weather, and pitstops. The route takes me over The Grapevine, and there are times when it's been pouring rain, either going or coming. There's no way I would drive that on my track tires (NT01s).

Those rear doors make it significantly easier with my wife's M3 though!

Which group do you go with? I mostly did SCCA cal club last year at button willow to get my comp license signed off.

Did we overlap ever?

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

ugh right, loading them through the little space between b-pillar and folded front seat is not fun.

No not fun, but I'm 69, have a bad back, a total knee replacement of my right knee, and my left knee is not in great shape. If I can do it, you can do it (unless you're over 6' and 200#, that would make it harder).

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Which group do you go with? I mostly did SCCA cal club last year at button willow to get my comp license signed off.

Did we overlap ever?

My wife and I have run most of the BMW CCA HPDEs since 2012, including Chuckwalla, Buttonwillow, Streets of Willow, Willow Springs, Laguna Seca, and Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch. I've run in the A group most of that time. Last year my wife and I joined the Audi Club so that we can do their 2-day HPDSs, with the optional Advanced Driver day on Friday. We've done Spring Mountain and Buttonwillow with them. We have Buttonwillow coming with BMW CCA in March and Spring Mountain with the Audi Club in April.

I've never done SCCA, except when I used to autocross with them in my S2000 in the early 2000s.

We also attend many of the BMW CCA LA Chapter social events.

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

No not fun, but I'm 69, have a bad back, a total knee replacement of my right knee, and my left knee is not in great shape. If I can do it, you can do it (unless you're over 6' and 200#, that would make it harder).

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

My wife and I have run most of the BMW CCA HPDEs since 2012, including Chuckwalla, Buttonwillow, Streets of Willow, Willow Springs, Laguna Seca, and Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch. I've run in the A group most of that time. Last year my wife and I joined the Audi Club so that we can do their 2-day HPDSs, with the optional Advanced Driver day on Friday. We've done Spring Mountain and Buttonwillow with them. We have Buttonwillow coming with BMW CCA in March and Spring Mountain with the Audi Club in April.

I've never done SCCA, except when I used to autocross with them in my S2000 in the early 2000s.

We also attend many of the BMW CCA LA Chapter social events.

I saw your other post about your age and knees. Way to get to the track and I enjoy your hobby

Ok, we have definitely never overlapped. I had a Z435 most of the time I lived in socal, and that wasn't allowed at BMWCCA events.

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I saw your other post about your age and knees. Way to get to the track and I enjoy your hobby

Ok, we have definitely never overlapped. I had a Z435 most of the time I lived in socal, and that wasn't allowed at BMWCCA events.

I also have a Z4 M Roadster and I've done autocrosses with BMW CCA but I've never had it on the track.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That's the thing, the NT01 are not the fastest tires, by far. They are however a great budget option for the track rat. They offer decent grip, very good wear characteristics, predictable break-away, are immune to heat cycling and very consistent throughout their life. If I wanted to be the fastest guy on track, I would not be running NT01. I am out there just to have fun with my buddies and the NT01 allows me to this while keeping consumable costs relatively low.

Here's a couple of questions for everyone on here - what tires are out there that have as good of breakaway characteristics as the NT01
(Regardless of price)?

That being said - does the NT01 have much better breakaway characteristics vs. the RE-71 or BFG R1 or MPSC2?

[Tommy L Garage]

Hi there
Any idea If I will have issues running 275 40 18 on all four corners on 18x10 et25 wheels?

Thanks!

[Gomeler]

Originally Posted by Tommy L Garage

Hi there
Any idea If I will have issues running 275 40 18 on all four corners on 18x10 et25 wheels?

Thanks!

Do a little research my man -> https://support.apexraceparts.com/hc...-Fitment-Guide

[Tommy L Garage]

Originally Posted by Gomeler

Do a little research my man -> https://support.apexraceparts.com/hc...-Fitment-Guide

Thanks but it still doesn't answer my question my man

[Gomeler]

Originally Posted by Tommy L Garage

Thanks but it still doesn't answer my question my man

There are plenty of setups in there that yield tire heights similar to what you are interested in along with the spacer requirements to fit. 18x10 setups are discussed to death in the wheels and tires sub-forum. So, when I was saying do some research, I didn't mean ctrl+f. I just pointed you in one direction where you could start figuring things out

[jmg]

Thinking of my next step in for my M3 CS. 6-8 track days a year 8-10 auto-crosses, driving to and from. Nothing too serious, I don't want to start playing the mod game until I get much better as a driver. I don't daily the car, maybe once or twice a week to work for fun. Think OEM++.

So far:

MPHAS
GC Camber Plates
PS4S

Possible next steps:
RE-71R - 265/30/19f 285/35/20r - I originally wanted track wheels, but the streetability of RE-71R's might let me just stick with the OEM wheels. I would love to go 295/30/20r but the short sidewall is a concern.

Brakes - I want to stick with the stock brakes/rotors and get pads and fluid.

What should I lean on first, brakes or tires? Any suggestions with the stock brakes what pad will work best for PS4S street tires? - Endless ME20, Ferodo DS2500 or PFC08?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jmg

Thinking of my next step in for my M3 CS. 6-8 track days a year 8-10 auto-crosses, driving to and from. Nothing too serious, I don't want to start playing the mod game until I get much better as a driver. I don't daily the car, maybe once or twice a week to work for fun. Think OEM++.

So far:

MPHAS
GC Camber Plates
PS4S

Possible next steps:
RE-71R - 265/30/19f 285/35/20r - I originally wanted track wheels, but the streetability of RE-71R's might let me just stick with the OEM wheels. I would love to go 295/30/20r but the short sidewall is a concern.

Brakes - I want to stick with the stock brakes/rotors and get pads and fluid.

What should I lean on first, brakes or tires? Any suggestions with the stock brakes what pad will work best for PS4S street tires? - Endless ME20, Ferodo DS2500 or PFC08?

I really like the RE71 as a streetable track tire. IIRC I run 265 front and 295 rear. The rear sidewall isn't that short as it's a really wide tire, and the '20' is a % of the width

I would lean on brakes way before tires. The worst thing that can happen with a PS4S is you destroy them in a weekend and even then it would be due to insufficient front camber, nothing else. With brakes though, the worst thing is going into a wall.

I've instructed plenty of beginners and intermediates and never run into an issue with their street tires, however, their brakes fail quite often.

I'd use the PFC11 pad as it is quieter than the PFC08, but either will pull your eye balls out of your sockets.

Right after pads and long before even upgrading tires I would get front camber plates. They make a world of difference in tire longevity.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I really like the RE71 as a streetable track tire. IIRC I run 265 front and 295 rear. The rear sidewall isn't that short as it's a really wide tire, and the '20' is a % of the width

I would lean on brakes way before tires. The worst thing that can happen with a PS4S is you destroy them in a weekend and even then it would be due to insufficient front camber, nothing else. With brakes though, the worst thing is going into a wall.

I've instructed plenty of beginners and intermediates and never run into an issue with their street tires, however, their brakes fail quite often.

I'd use the PFC11 pad as it is quieter than the PFC08, but either will pull your eye balls out of your sockets.

Right after pads and long before even upgrading tires I would get front camber plates. They make a world of difference in tire longevity.

Thanks for the reply. Fortunately I already have Camber plates. I'll be looking at pads for sure next. How do the stock rotors handle the PFC11's? Bedding procedures needed for going back and forth between OEM pads?

I'm relieved to hear about the rears. Do you have any pics of your setup?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jmg

Thanks for the reply. Fortunately I already have Camber plates. I'll be looking at pads for sure next. How do the stock rotors handle the PFC11's? Bedding procedures needed for going back and forth between OEM pads?

I'm relieved to hear about the rears. Do you have any pics of your setup?

ah great, so then you'll be juuuuust fine with the Ps4s.

Sometimes the forum makes it seem like you need a dedicated wheel and tire setup... in reality a set of PS4s are very fast and allow you to learn a lot. And they take no time to get up to temp.

A nice thing about PFC11 pads is you don't really bed them in. They just work and all the F8X and E9X cars I instruct in other than my own pair run stock rotors with no issues.
If you drive home with the track pads usually that drive is enough to 'clean' the rotors so the street pads are happy

I don't post pics of my cars, but if you pm your email/cell I'll send some pics over.
Before running the 265/295 setup I was worried because that is quite unbalanced, however, just like using PS4s or stock wheels, the issue is exaggerated.

[TheBreeze]

Originally Posted by Tommy L Garage

Hi there
Any idea If I will have issues running 275 40 18 on all four corners on 18x10 et25 wheels?

Thanks!

It's almost a certainty you would rub like crazy on the front fender liners. There's just not a lot of room to run a taller tire on the front. The size you are looking at 26.7" tall (+.7 from stock), and it's also at least .7" wider. Turning the wheel will catch the humps on the rear side of the fender liner, as well as the areas below the headlamp access on the front of the fender liners. I went up to 265/35/19 (26.3") in the front on stock 437s and had rubbing issues running 12mm spacers, even after taking a heat gun and remolding the fender liners. In the end, I had to back down to a 10mm spacer to stop the rubbing. With the more aggressive offset and extra width of the Apex wheel, coupled with a much taller and wider tire relative to stock, I just don't see how it would fit without MAJOR modifications to the fender liners.

[Tommy L Garage]

Originally Posted by TheBreeze

It's almost a certainty you would rub like crazy on the front fender liners. There's just not a lot of room to run a taller tire on the front. The size you are looking at 26.7" tall (+.7 from stock), and it's also at least .7" wider. Turning the wheel will catch the humps on the rear side of the fender liner, as well as the areas below the headlamp access on the front of the fender liners. I went up to 265/35/19 (26.3") in the front on stock 437s and had rubbing issues running 12mm spacers, even after taking a heat gun and remolding the fender liners. In the end, I had to back down to a 10mm spacer to stop the rubbing. With the more aggressive offset and extra width of the Apex wheel, coupled with a much taller and wider tire relative to stock, I just don't see how it would fit without MAJOR modifications to the fender liners.

Undersood. Thank you.

Ended up buying four NT01s 275 35 18.

I appreciate everyone's help.

[TheBreeze]

Originally Posted by jmg

Thinking of my next step in for my M3 CS. 6-8 track days a year 8-10 auto-crosses, driving to and from. Nothing too serious, I don't want to start playing the mod game until I get much better as a driver. I don't daily the car, maybe once or twice a week to work for fun. Think OEM++.

So far:

MPHAS
GC Camber Plates
PS4S

Possible next steps:
RE-71R - 265/30/19f 285/35/20r - I originally wanted track wheels, but the streetability of RE-71R's might let me just stick with the OEM wheels. I would love to go 295/30/20r but the short sidewall is a concern.

Brakes - I want to stick with the stock brakes/rotors and get pads and fluid.

What should I lean on first, brakes or tires? Any suggestions with the stock brakes what pad will work best for PS4S street tires? - Endless ME20, Ferodo DS2500 or PFC08?

Agree with most of what SYT_Shadow said already, though I'll add the following:

One thing to consider is that race pads work much better with track tires. Tires will be limiting factor in terms of braking power, and race pads can pretty easily overwhelm a street tire (ABS engages, squirmy threshold braking, etc.). If you're going to track a 300TW tire like the PS4S, I'd probably stick with a good street/track pad like the DS2500s or Stoptech Sports, run quality fluid, and maybe install some brake ducting to keep temps down and prolong pad life. No sense in spending $600 on race pads when $150 pads will be more compatible for your setup and skill level. Since you don't daily the car, I'd probably go with the DS2500s and not bother with swapping pads for now. Once you advance beyond a certain speed/level, and you start melting the street tires and brakes, then it's time for track tires and race pads capable of withstanding the heat generated by going faster. Keep it simple and let your progress as a driver dictate mods you need to get to that next level safely. I've seen plenty of drivers hit a "comfort wall" with HPDEs where they are simply not comfortable going any faster. Nothing wrong with that. it's supposed to be fun, not scare the shit out of you. If your "comfort wall" means you never melt the PS4S off the car, then no more mods necessary

I wouldn't worry too much about going to a wider tire out back - the sway bar set-up on the CS models lends itself better to a wider rear tire than the non-zcp/zcp models. I think a 265/30/19 in front will be too short however. With a 295/30/20 rear, you'd be looking at nearly a 2" difference in tire height front to back. A 265/35/19 will fit without modification in front provided you aren't running an aggressive offset. A 285/35/20 will be too tall out back, a 295/30/20 will fit fine.