Does Anybody Else DD with DSC Fully Off?

[CigarPundit]

I started doing this recently to get a sense of what the tune was doing to my power and torque. Previously I was driving pretty much all the time in MDM, and post-tune Euro MDM (though I did switch DSC off before the tune to get a baseline on the butt dyno). It's like a different car. I'm addicted to it, and I can't bring myself to switch DSC back on. In my experience, as long as I am aware of the fact that DSC is off and wheel spin could occur at any moment, it hasn't been hazardous at all. I'm expecting it and if I feel like it's getting hairy I just ease off and it hooks right up. No drama really. I love having full power available and the option to induce wheel spin at will. I think this is my new DD mode. Am I nuts and living on the edge or do others do this as well?

[BwoodBMW]

Originally Posted by CigarPundit

I started doing this recently to get a sense of what the tune was doing to my power and torque. Previously I was driving pretty much all the time in MDM, and post-tune Euro MDM (though I did switch DSC off before the tune to get a baseline on the butt dyno). It's like a different car. I'm addicted to it, and I can't bring myself to switch DSC back on. In my experience, as long as I am aware of the fact that DSC is off and wheel spin could occur at any moment, it hasn't been hazardous at all. I'm expecting it and if I feel like it's getting hairy I just ease off and it hooks right up. No drama really. I love having full power available and the option to induce wheel spin at will. I think this is my new DD mode. Am I nuts and living on the edge or do others do this as well?

Way too scared. I've had a few dicey moments with dsc off (which we're fine as I was driving 100% ready for it).

[CigarPundit]

I feel like it makes me a more attentive (and better) driver. I don't just mash it because I know what will happen.

[Luc@Speed&Tech]

That's pretty stupid TBH

[CigarPundit]

Originally Posted by LucBroDude

That's pretty stupid TBH

Well I’m 52 and I’ve been driving a long time. I disagree. One could certainly argue that nannies induce a carelessness that is itself “pretty stupid”.

[Luc@Speed&Tech]

Originally Posted by CigarPundit

Well I’m 52 and I’ve been driving a long time. I disagree. One could certainly argue that nannies induce a carelessness that is itself “pretty stupid”.

Driving skills don't improve with age.....If anything driving errors increase with age. Yes you can argue that nannies induce carelessness but you need to take into consideration that they're there to actually help you in case something goes wrong (ie, bad roads, oil patches, etc.). But don't take my word for it. Ask any professional driving instructor and see what they tell you.

[SherM4n]

I always turn the computers off...on a race track. On the road with other people, however, I'm happy to accept any help the car wants to give me in an emergency.

[CigarPundit]

Originally Posted by LucBroDude

Driving skills don't improve with age.....If anything driving errors increase with age. Yes you can argue that nannies induce carelessness but you need to take into consideration that they're there to actually help you in case something goes wrong (ie, bad roads, oil patches, etc.). But don't take my word for it. Ask any professional driving instructor and see what they tell you.

Not so sure about that. Maybe reflexes don’t improve, but judgment and judiciousness does (or can).

I’ve been to M School and I’ve talked to the instructors. Not interested in having corporate gospel quoted chapter and verse. And I don’t think traction control is a better risk mitigator than an attentive driver. I can understand that reasonable minds can differ about that though.

[CigarPundit]

Originally Posted by SherM4n

I always turn the computers off...on a race track. On the road with other people, however, I'm happy to accept any help the car wants to give me in an emergency.

Understandable.

[DanMpower]

On stock tires, not a chance.

Once I switched to Pilot 4S, so much more grip that I drive my car with DSC completely off. I do leave the nannies on when it's cold or damp out though.

[Don Molina]

Originally Posted by CigarPundit

Not so sure about that. Maybe reflexes don’t improve, but judgment and judiciousness does (or can).

I’ve been to M School and I’ve talked to the instructors. Not interested in having corporate gospel quoted chapter and verse. And I don’t think traction control is a better risk mitigator than an attentive driver. I can understand that reasonable minds can differ about that though.

These two risk mitigators don't necessarily cancel each other. So the argument of not using one or the other is quite weak IMO.

For DD I let it on, and when I'm going for a proper drive, it will vary between MDM and off, depending on mood and conditions. You must have a very fun daily drive, and I used to be like that in my early 20s in Greece, where everything is slippery and it's a huge playground. Now that I leave in Switzerland, I just can't see it happenning :|

[gunsmoker]

Unless you are taking the corners slow, don't drive with DSC off on public roads.
If you have driven your car on a track, you will know what I mean here.
Imagine you are getting into a corner faster than you can make it and that could be because you just did not know that corner well or the road conditions were not as you expected or you did not know that there was a slow moving traffic on the other side. This could be a highway clover leaf for example. So you start turning and you realize you are too fast. If you apply more braking than you intended, you will go into a spin - weight gets transferred onto the front wheels, the rear end gets lighter and starts to catch up with you. Unlike the DSC, you don't have independent control over the brakes for each wheel. You have one pedal. Well, you have the handbrake too, but under these conditions it could make things worse. The DSC, on the other hand, can do a better job of balancing the brake force between the front two wheels and the rear inner wheel.
If you end up in this situation, you should either quickly press the DSC button or try to straighten out the steering wheel gradually while applying more braking smoothly as well. This will push you to the outside edge of the road or on the shoulder, but you may be able to make it out without a spin. If you don't operate smoothly, you can unsettle the car. It's a bad idea to not use DSC on public roads - it's not something we can debate about.

[SMGCFP]

While I agree with an above poster that the Pilot 4S's are awesome, I use the MDM mode and never the DSC off mode. I know back in the 60's and early 70's cars had some serious power and no computers. This is not then. There are way more cars on the road now, and the roads are not taken care of as well as they are now. Combine that with more power and less weight, and you have a recipe for a bad outcome. At least as far as I'm concerned. After driving this car with the DSC on then off at the wet skid pad at the performance center, the DSC (even in MDM) makes me a much more courageous driver. When the power cuts out, I learn not do that maneuver again (and my car isn't wrecked and I haven't killed or injured myself or someone else). Disclaimer: I am not a great driver. (It takes a big man to admit this) Most of us are not great drivers. You learn this when you do a hot lap on a track with someone who is a great driver.

[gatorfast]

Fast forward six months to thread titled "Totaled my M3 today".

OP you can do as you please but you are putting yourself and others at risk unnecessarily imo. Maybe nothing will ever happen (and I sincerely hope that is the case) but the question is why is this necessary on your daily commute? All it takes is one misjudged situation by you or someone else for a wreck that may have been easily avoidable if the safety measures were in place.

[CanAutM3]

While I believe that one can be perfectly safe daily driving with DSC off the vast majority of the time, DSC could save you the one time you were innatentive or faced an extraordinary road condition. DSC can correct the car's attitude by individually applying the brakes at each corner, meaning it can do corrections that are physically impossible for the driver to do. So it can save even the best driver.

I almost always switch off DSC when on a dry track, it is the only way to truly appreciate the F8X's fantastic chassis and powertrain. Even Euro MDM is way too intrusive on a dry track to fully exploit the car's performance envelope. I will occasionnaly switch it off for a spirited drive on the street, but I rather keep it in MDM for the daily drive just in case an unforseen event presents itself. I don't push the car hard enough on the DD for MDM to be a nuisance to my driving enjoyment.

[mmmmQuattro]

I have had a couple of near misses, which were 100% due to people pulling out and not seeing me - the only way I avoided a crash, was due to the nannies.

I keep DSC on, but I think Euro MDM gives you a bit of slip - so that you can have your cake and eat it too.

Oh and by the way, my kids all think that my driving is getting worse with age - they say I take too many risks...

[instarand]

Does having traction off give the car more power? Or it just allows you theoretically to produce faster times because it doesn't slow you up in the turns?

Separately, does the throttle's sport or sport plus setting actually give you more power? In my 911, the sport button just makes the throttle response a bit more sensitive but didn't actually increase power.

[Alan l.]

If you are driving to the point were the cars electric features designed to keep you out of trouble is intervening enough to bother you then you don’t belong on a public road. Plain and simple.

Take it to the track if you want to explore the cars limits. Not next to a minivan filled with a family/kids on a public road.

Alan

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by instarand

Does having traction off give the car more power? Or it just allows you theoretically to produce faster times because it doesn't slow you up in the turns?

Separately, does the throttle's sport or sport plus setting actually give you more power? In my 911, the sport button just makes the throttle response a bit more sensitive but didn't actually increase power.

DSC does not change the engine's state of tune, meaning that in ideal conditions, it will make the same power. However, because DSC makes interventions by cutting engine power to prevent/in anticipation of loss of traction, in real world conditions, the car can make more power on average and accelerate better with DSC off. DSC, even in Euro-MDM tune is still way too intrusive, it will just not allow for the slip angles needed for fast laps.

Similarly, the engine setting does not alter the maximum power produced when at WOT. However, in the Efficient and Sport settings, the throttle reaction is dampened, so there is a slight delay before WOT is achieved when the accelerator is floored. This will not makes a meaningfull difference in acceleration times, but it does makes the car less sharp to throttle inputs while handling. I personnaly prefer the un-dampened response of Sport+ when on track which allows me to more precisely position the car, but I find it too jerky for the DD.

[Luc@Speed&Tech]

Originally Posted by CigarPundit

Not so sure about that. Maybe reflexes don't improve, but judgment and judiciousness does (or can).

I've been to M School and I've talked to the instructors. Not interested in having corporate gospel quoted chapter and verse. And I don't think traction control is a better risk mitigator than an attentive driver. I can understand that reasonable minds can differ about that though.

You're missing the point....I'm not talking about your judgement. I'm talking about your ability and skill to control the car should something unexpected happens (where reflexes do come into play). Sounds like you think your driving skills are adequate to control the car without nannies but honestly in reality they're not. You're a danger to yourself and others around you on the road with that kind of thinking.

[cwhands]

There's a time and place for this...and IMO it isn't on public roads.

To each his own.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by LucBroDude

You're missing the point....I'm not talking about your judgement. I'm talking about your ability and skill to control the car should something unexpected happens (where reflexes do come into play). Sounds like you think your driving skills are adequate to control the car without nannies but honestly in reality they're not. You're a danger to yourself and others around you on the road with that kind of thinking.

Don't you think that is an exageration?

The car does not become suddenly uncontrollable when DSC is off. A decently skilled driver can be able to perfectly control the car in an emergency situation in most scenarios with DSC off.

That being said, I still rather have the nannies on during the DD for that one time I could need them.