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View Poll Results: Will Donald Trump be Impeached or will this blowback on Biden
Orange Trump bad. Trump gone. 83 32.17%
Trump Trump-umphant. 88 34.11%
Inclusive 18 6.98%
Biden C4'd to oblivion. 75 29.07%
Biden grows in strength and gets shot in the arm for nomination. 10 3.88%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 258. You may not vote on this poll

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      11-20-2019, 06:24 PM   #2905
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More on what the leftist propaganda media won't be feeding their sycophants today or ever.

https://tass.com/world/1090971
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      11-20-2019, 06:29 PM   #2906
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
More on what the leftist propaganda media won't be feeding their sycophants today or ever.

https://tass.com/world/1090971
Investigate him.
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      11-20-2019, 06:34 PM   #2907
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
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Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Who are you kidding?

"I know that members of this committee have frequently framed these complicated issues in the form of a simple question: Was there a 'quid pro quo? With regard to the requested White House call and White House meeting, the answer is yes." - Sondland



On Fox News, Ken Starr, who led the inquiry that led to Bill Clinton's impeachment, said after Sondland testified that "it's over.... We now know that the president, in fact, committed the crime of bribery." source
Oops.


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...eachm-n2556787
Sondland said what he said. Nail meet coffin
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      11-20-2019, 06:41 PM   #2908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Who are you kidding?

"I know that members of this committee have frequently framed these complicated issues in the form of a simple question: Was there a 'quid pro quo? With regard to the requested White House call and White House meeting, the answer is yes." - Sondland



On Fox News, Ken Starr, who led the inquiry that led to Bill Clinton's impeachment, said after Sondland testified that "it's over.... We now know that the president, in fact, committed the crime of bribery." source
Oops.


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...eachm-n2556787
I wanted to attach here a pic of my fav James Thurber cartoon, but I can't find it, so I'll provide instead my inadequate description==>

two guys dueling. one has no head, head lying on the floor, speaking. caption:

"touché"
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      11-20-2019, 06:48 PM   #2909
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^
1933 When the Soviets were our ally in defeating Nazi global threat.

2016 When Putin is assassinating journalist.
Singer, we always count on you to miss the point. Totally.
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      11-20-2019, 06:53 PM   #2910
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That's how you feel. However, facts are NOT feelings. I noticed you apprecieated the interfax article in the "Barr" thread. Talk about a victim of propaganda..........
You continue to confuse the two. For example, you still believe that the Russian Hoax and the Obstruction Hoax were proven. Again, this current foolishness will end the same way.

And as far as victims of propaganda goes, you still quote CNN as a credible news source. Nothing could be further from the truth. I could go on but I have a call.
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      11-20-2019, 06:54 PM   #2911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I stand by what I said and this applies to ANY investigation, not just Trump: Just because you can't find evidence, it doesn't mean they didn't do it. It just means you can't prove it in a court of law, and they are innocent in the eyes of the law.... again, it doesn't mean they didn't do it. It also doesn't mean that they did do it either. That's a fact.

This is opinion:

If Russian Collusion was a hoax, Trump wouldn't have had to lie about it and wouldn't have tried to block the investigation. Smoke and fire.
As I'd bet the house that you aren't privy to all information, the referenced post is YOUR OPINION.
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      11-20-2019, 06:55 PM   #2912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCSU View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
I was referring to the name calling.

I've noticed many times in this forum, one side finds no problem with calling names and throwing insults, but is quick to call fowl when the other side does it. There is so much hypocrisy around here and those who still choose to put their party above all else.
"insults"? on a political forum?

............thud
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      11-20-2019, 06:58 PM   #2913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I stand by what I said and this applies to ANY investigation, not just Trump: Just because you can't find evidence, it doesn't mean they didn't do it. It just means you can't prove it in a court of law, and they are innocent in the eyes of the law.... again, it doesn't mean they didn't do it. It also doesn't mean that they did do it either. That's a fact.

This is opinion:

If Russian Collusion was a hoax, Trump wouldn't have had to lie about it and wouldn't have tried to block the investigation. Smoke and fire.
As I'd bet the house that you aren't privy to all information, the referenced post is YOUR OPINION.
Like I said...
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      11-20-2019, 07:01 PM   #2914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCSU View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
I was referring to the name calling.

I've noticed many times in this forum, one side finds no problem with calling names and throwing insults, but is quick to call fowl when the other side does it. There is so much hypocrisy around here and those who still choose to put their party above all else.
When in Rome. I'm no saint as certain others pretend to be. Saying like it is, which is a Trump virtue. One needs only follow Trump's twitter.
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      11-20-2019, 07:07 PM   #2915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Like I said...
You added, "That's a fact.", to the end of your first paragraph. This isn't a court of law so your discourse doesn't apply. It's a political smear. THAT is a fact.
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      11-20-2019, 07:26 PM   #2916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Like I said...
You added, "That's a fact.", to the end of your first paragraph. This isn't a court of law so your discourse doesn't apply. It's a political smear. THAT is a fact.
No disrespect but please read it again. It's worded very specifically. Factually, even a court ruling or an investigation can find a guilty person innocent if they don't have the evidence. It does not necessarily mean they are, in actuality, innocent of what they are accused of. That is a fact. What is opinion is that, in this case, I think Trump is guilty. Not that my opinion matters.

Case in point: should the House find Trump guilty there will be plenty of his supporters crying foul that the inquiry was biased, unconstitutional, illegal etc. you can see that in this thread already. They will have their own opinion despite the findings.

Thus, I have my own opinion despite the findings in the Mueller report. I happen to think Mueller proved to be very fair. He didn't find enough evidence. The cause is up for debate, but many believe the WH obstructed the investigation. My opinion: they did.
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      11-20-2019, 07:51 PM   #2917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
Just some thoughts and questions for both sides:

For the Pubs:

1: What possible reason is there for Rudy to be in the Ukraine, and why is he, as a private citizen, poking around in foreign affairs?

2: Why do members at the Ambassador level in the Dept of State give Rudy any credence as to how they should proceed?

3: It is obvious to me that when it comes down to whether or not there is hard, direct evidence, (at least so far), NOBODY has heard President Trump say that the aid was linked to the statement or the meeting. Given that, do you not see a problem with how this whole thing did go down?

For the Dems:

1: Witch hunt... Blah blah blah, right? Well, when Schiff said for the better part of 2 years that he had hard evidence of Russian collusion with the Trump campaign, and then when it was all out in public and he did not have a single thing, why should ANYBODY believe him now?

2: IF there was no impropriety in Hunter Biden taking $80,000 a month for a job in which he had no experience, are they hiring? Seriously, hook me up! Now the serious question, (and if it was me I would have a hard time if I was Joe Biden doing this because I love my sons more than anything,) could Joe 100% NOT take Hunter's job into account while conducting business of the US with The Ukraine?

3: Where were your cries of foul when Obama, on a hot mic and telling all the world to "tell Vlad I'll have more flexibility after the election"? Is that not worse than this?

General thoughts:

I am really happy that this whole thing was televised. I have newfound respect for those that handle foreign relations for the US. I have the utmost respect for the honesty and dignity in which they handled being called to service abroad, and also in these hearings. They are good people, and we are lucky to have them in the posts they hold. That said, I do not think that the results, whether they fall one way or another, will be worth this knowledge.

Rudy needs to go away, and maybe be locked up.

Trump needs to throw his Twit-phone in the trash.

I almost hope that the impeachment inquiry AND articles goes through the House quickly, also through the Senate and is enforced with Trump being removed. That is the only way I see a true choice in 2020. If this drags out until spring/summer, the R's will stand virtually no chance to put up somebody that could have the time to assemble a winning team, which leaves us with President Pete and no alternative from the other side.

Listening to Nunes right now, and he is right, there is no hard evidence. That said, it is pretty apparent that at least Rudy was trying to do slimy stuff to push Trump in 2020. The fact that Trump, whether guilty in this impeachment or not, chose to associate himself with Rudy in this fashion disturbs me. That is not the judgement that I want from MY president, whether D or R.

The political class wants nothing more than power. They just want lots of it. Both sides are willing to do whatever unethical nonsense that they can to further tighten their grip on the wheel.

Both sides have incredible hypocrites who apparently have no shame in saying one thing and doing another.
regarding item #1, here's private citizen (and Soviet agent) Harry Hopkins poking around in foreign affairs. FDR was not the first to implement policy this way and obviously not the last.
Was Harry doing something to benefit FDR's political campaign?
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      11-20-2019, 07:53 PM   #2918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
No disrespect but please read it again. It's worded very specifically. Factually, even a court ruling or an investigation can find a guilty person innocent if they don't have the evidence. It does not necessarily mean they are, in actuality, innocent of what they are accused of. That is a fact. What is opinion is that, in this case, I think Trump is guilty. Not that my opinion matters.

Case in point: should the House find Trump guilty there will be plenty of his supporters crying foul that the inquiry was biased, unconstitutional, illegal etc. you can see that in this thread already. They will have their own opinion despite the findings.

Thus, I have my own opinion despite the findings in the Mueller report. I happen to think Mueller proved to be very fair. He didn't find enough evidence. The cause is up for debate, but many believe the WH obstructed the investigation. My opinion: they did.
I think you should read again, no disrespect. This isn't a court of law. The rules of evidence do not apply in this political event.

I will say this then leave the conversation as we appear to be in a loop. People aren't found innocent. They are innocent until proven guilty. This is a subtle but critical distinction.
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      11-20-2019, 07:57 PM   #2919
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Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Ehem... did you read the report from the White House? $500 billy PER YEAR.
I did, from what I gather it really a 10 year period
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      11-20-2019, 08:19 PM   #2920
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lmfao, Gallup has Trump's approval rating going up slightly since the impeachment proceedings started. What a well deserved disaster for these disgusting dimturds.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/268493/...ent-probe.aspx
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      11-20-2019, 08:26 PM   #2921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
regarding item #1, here's private citizen (and Soviet agent) Harry Hopkins poking around in foreign affairs. FDR was not the first to implement policy this way and obviously not the last.
I will admit that I do not know more than what a quick search about Mr. Hopkins revealed, but I am pretty sure he is dead and can't hop into the Ukraine business to help Rudy in any way. In any case, I don't like it one bit for a number of reasons. Do you think it is a good idea? If so, why?
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      11-20-2019, 09:00 PM   #2922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
Just some thoughts and questions for both sides:

For the Pubs:

1: What possible reason is there for Rudy to be in the Ukraine, and why is he, as a private citizen, poking around in foreign affairs?

2: Why do members at the Ambassador level in the Dept of State give Rudy any credence as to how they should proceed?

3: It is obvious to me that when it comes down to whether or not there is hard, direct evidence, (at least so far), NOBODY has heard President Trump say that the aid was linked to the statement or the meeting. Given that, do you not see a problem with how this whole thing did go down?

For the Dems:

1: Witch hunt... Blah blah blah, right? Well, when Schiff said for the better part of 2 years that he had hard evidence of Russian collusion with the Trump campaign, and then when it was all out in public and he did not have a single thing, why should ANYBODY believe him now?

2: IF there was no impropriety in Hunter Biden taking $80,000 a month for a job in which he had no experience, are they hiring? Seriously, hook me up! Now the serious question, (and if it was me I would have a hard time if I was Joe Biden doing this because I love my sons more than anything,) could Joe 100% NOT take Hunter's job into account while conducting business of the US with The Ukraine?

3: Where were your cries of foul when Obama, on a hot mic and telling all the world to "tell Vlad I'll have more flexibility after the election"? Is that not worse than this?

General thoughts:

I am really happy that this whole thing was televised. I have newfound respect for those that handle foreign relations for the US. I have the utmost respect for the honesty and dignity in which they handled being called to service abroad, and also in these hearings. They are good people, and we are lucky to have them in the posts they hold. That said, I do not think that the results, whether they fall one way or another, will be worth this knowledge.

Rudy needs to go away, and maybe be locked up.

Trump needs to throw his Twit-phone in the trash.

I almost hope that the impeachment inquiry AND articles goes through the House quickly, also through the Senate and is enforced with Trump being removed. That is the only way I see a true choice in 2020. If this drags out until spring/summer, the R's will stand virtually no chance to put up somebody that could have the time to assemble a winning team, which leaves us with President Pete and no alternative from the other side.

Listening to Nunes right now, and he is right, there is no hard evidence. That said, it is pretty apparent that at least Rudy was trying to do slimy stuff to push Trump in 2020. The fact that Trump, whether guilty in this impeachment or not, chose to associate himself with Rudy in this fashion disturbs me. That is not the judgement that I want from MY president, whether D or R.

The political class wants nothing more than power. They just want lots of it. Both sides are willing to do whatever unethical nonsense that they can to further tighten their grip on the wheel.

Both sides have incredible hypocrites who apparently have no shame in saying one thing and doing another.
regarding item #1, here's private citizen (and Soviet agent) Harry Hopkins poking around in foreign affairs. FDR was not the first to implement policy this way and obviously not the last.
Was Harry doing something to benefit FDR's political campaign?
only secondarily, his main objective was to benefit Josef Stalin.
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      11-20-2019, 09:23 PM   #2923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
regarding item #1, here's private citizen (and Soviet agent) Harry Hopkins poking around in foreign affairs. FDR was not the first to implement policy this way and obviously not the last.
I will admit that I do not know more than what a quick search about Mr. Hopkins revealed, but I am pretty sure he is dead and can't hop into the Ukraine business to help Rudy in any way. In any case, I don't like it one bit for a number of reasons. Do you think it is a good idea? If so, why?
my point was not to defend the practice of Presidents using personal representatives to implement foreign policy via back channels, but only to point out that it is common practice and has been since the founding of the Republic.
would I have picked Rudi? no.
would I have picked Harry Hopkins? emphatically no.
I do think that the spectacle of the last few days demonstrates WHY Presidents feel the need to create back channels to circumvent Foggy Bottom: it's just easier than trying to convince these tweed-encrusted bow-tied martinets that they are NOT, in fact, a coequal fourth branch of government.
hard not to picture Alger Hiss right now....or Owen Lattimore, or Harry Dexter White, or John Stewart Service....the list goes on but Hiss is sort of the poster boy==>
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      11-20-2019, 09:38 PM   #2924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
my point was not to defend the practice of Presidents using personal representatives to implement foreign policy via back channels, but only to point out that it is common practice and has been since the founding of the Republic.
would I have picked Rudi? no.
would I have picked Harry Hopkins? emphatically no.
I do think that the spectacle of the last few days demonstrates WHY Presidents feel the need to create back channels to circumvent Foggy Bottom: it's just easier than trying to convince these tweed-encrusted bow-tied martinets that they are NOT, in fact, a coequal fourth branch of government.
hard not to picture Alger Hiss right now....or Owen Lattimore, or Harry Dexter White, or John Stewart Service....the list goes on but Hiss is sort of the poster boy==>
Thank you for the explanation. I gotta ask, though, are you implying that in grouping RG with those people, he is in the same line of work? That would take this to a whole new level, wouldn't it?
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      11-20-2019, 09:41 PM   #2925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
my point was not to defend the practice of Presidents using personal representatives to implement foreign policy via back channels, but only to point out that it is common practice and has been since the founding of the Republic.
would I have picked Rudi? no.
would I have picked Harry Hopkins? emphatically no.
I do think that the spectacle of the last few days demonstrates WHY Presidents feel the need to create back channels to circumvent Foggy Bottom: it's just easier than trying to convince these tweed-encrusted bow-tied martinets that they are NOT, in fact, a coequal fourth branch of government.
hard not to picture Alger Hiss right now....or Owen Lattimore, or Harry Dexter White, or John Stewart Service....the list goes on but Hiss is sort of the poster boy==>
Thank you for the explanation. I gotta ask, though, are you implying that in grouping RG with those people, he is in the same line of work? That would take this to a whole new level, wouldn't it?
same line of work?
Harry Hopkins was a Social Worker for chrissakes.

Edit: well, ok, that was harsh. I think the point may be that it's BECAUSE they're outside of Foggy Bottom that a President is able to count on their loyalty.
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      11-20-2019, 09:51 PM   #2926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
same line of work?
Harry Hopkins was a Social Worker for chrissakes.

Edit: well, ok, that was harsh. I think the point may be that it's BECAUSE they're outside of Foggy Bottom that a President is able to count on their loyalty.
Point taken. I was referring to the common trait I found between them, which at a quick glance appeared to be spying for Russia or China. Sorry that was not more clear.

Regardless, it is a really bad idea from an optics perspective, and especially when it is broadcast to every corner of the planet.
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