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View Poll Results: Will Donald Trump be Impeached or will this blowback on Biden
Orange Trump bad. Trump gone. 83 32.17%
Trump Trump-umphant. 88 34.11%
Inclusive 18 6.98%
Biden C4'd to oblivion. 75 29.07%
Biden grows in strength and gets shot in the arm for nomination. 10 3.88%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 258. You may not vote on this poll

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      12-10-2019, 09:09 AM   #4093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Articles:

Abuse of Power
and
Obstruction of Congress


Russian collusion.... no wait, Treason....no wait, bribery.... no wait, quid pro quo..... no wait obstruction of Justice, no wait obstruction of Congress... no wait HE WON THE ELECTION!!!
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      12-10-2019, 09:32 AM   #4094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho;25554451[B
]The weakest banks were allowed to fail and several did. [/B]The weakest loan borrowers suffered a similar fate. The weakest banks were purchased by stronger institutions who repaid the government, with interest, for their temporary assistance.
Clearly you didn't look it up.

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      12-10-2019, 09:39 AM   #4095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Okay, so seriously... WTF is "Obstruction of Congress"?

LOL.
A made up charge for people that don't understand Title II Executive powers. Which seem to be quite a few.

How have you been, my friend?
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      12-10-2019, 09:50 AM   #4096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Okay, so seriously... WTF is "Obstruction of Congress"?

LOL.

Obstruction of justice is the impediment of governmental activities. There are a host of federal criminal laws that prohibit obstructions of justice. The six most general outlaw obstruction of judicial proceedings (18 U.S.C. 1503), witness tampering (18 U.S.C. 1512), witness retaliation (18 U.S.C. 1513), obstruction of congressional or administrative proceedings (18 U.S.C. 1505), conspiracy to defraud the United States (18 U.S.C. 371), and contempt (a creature of statute, rule and common law). All but Section 1503 cover congressional activities...

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34304.pdf

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      12-10-2019, 09:56 AM   #4097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Good, thanks for asking. I try to stay off the Politics stuff (except for Tesla). But when I heard the "articles" and obstruction of Congress, I almost wrecked my newly acquired E46, because I was laughing so hard.

How have you been? i8 still running good?
Pics of the E46, pls? You know better!!

All is well!!

I'm actually restoring a 1991 Mercedes 300E 2.6. It was my sister's car in college and med school and has been sitting up for about 10 years and she was about to sell it so I bought it from her. I'm pretty stoked about it.

Cleaned up the engine bay, replaced hoses and belts, plugs and wires, ordered a few more bits and bobs that badly deteriorated and energized the system over the weekend. Next is to drop the fuel tank and clean it completely, new fuel lines and filters, etc.

A little body work (quick fills and paint) clean-up and detail over the weekend as well as leather restoration and a couple of rips to be repaired are scheduled for the following week. I estimate having it back on the road the week of Christmas. It's the 2nd to last Mercedes ever bought in my family.

It will look new. I'll post a few pics.
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      12-10-2019, 10:07 AM   #4098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
A made up charge for people that don't understand Title II Executive powers.
Source?
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      12-10-2019, 10:11 AM   #4099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Source?
Please show me Obstruction of Congress in the constitution. I'll wait.
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      12-10-2019, 10:12 AM   #4100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Please show me Obstruction of Congress in the constitution. I'll wait.
You said many don't understand Article II. Please elaborate.

Hooligan beat me to it to show you obstruction of Congress.
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      12-10-2019, 10:23 AM   #4101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
You said many don't understand Article II. Please elaborate.

Hooligan beat me to it to show you obstruction of Congress.
Please share where this has been done.

Obstructing Congressional or Administrative Proceedings (18 U.S.C. 1505)
Section 1505 outlaws interfering with Justice Department civil investigative demands issued in antitrust cases.88 However, it deals primarily with obstructing congressional or federal administrative proceedings, condemning:
I. Whoever
II. A. corruptly, or B. by threats or
C. force, or
D. by any threatening letter or communication
III. A. influences, B. obstructs, or
C. impedes or D. endeavors to
1. influence, 2. obstruct, or 3. impede
IV. A. 1. the due and proper administration of the law under which 2. any pending proceeding is being had
3. before any department or agency of the United States, or
B. 1. the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which
2. any inquiry or investigation is being had
3. by
a. either House, or
b. any committee of either House or
c. any joint committee of the Congress
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years (not more than 8 years if the offense involves domestic or international terrorism), or both.89
Prosecutions under §1505 have been relatively few, at least until recently, and most of these arise as obstructions of administrative proceedings.90 “The crime of obstruction of [such] proceedings has three essential elements. First, there must be a proceeding pending before a department or
88 “Whoever, with intent to avoid, evade, prevent, or obstruct compliance, in whole or in part, with any civil investigative demand duly and properly made under the Antitrust Civil Process Act, willfully withholds, misrepresents, removes from any place, conceals, covers up, destroys, mutilates, alters, or by other means falsifies any documentary material, answers to written interrogatories, or oral testimony, which is the subject of such demand; or attempts to do so or solicits another to do so ... Shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than five years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both,” 18 U.S.C. 1505.

89 18 U.S.C. 1505. Under 18 U.S.C. 3571, felonies are punishable by a fine of not more than $250,000 (not more than $500,000 if the offender is an organization).
90 E.g., United States v. Safavian, 528 F.3d 957, 967-68 (D.C. Cir. 2008); United States v. Kay, 513 F.3d 432, 454 (5th Cir. 2007); United States v. Blackwell, 459 F.3d 739, 761 (6th Cir. 2006); United States v. Quattrone, 441 F.3d 153, 174 (2d Cir. 2006); United States v. Bhagat, 436 F.3d 1140, 1146 (9th Cir. 2006).
Congressional Research Service 16
Obstruction of Congress
agency of the United States. Second, the defendant must be aware of the pending proceeding. Third, the defendant must have intentionally endeavored corruptly to influence, obstruct or impede the pending proceeding.”91
Perhaps due to the breadth of judicial construction, the question of what constitutes a pending proceeding has arisen most often. Taken as a whole, the cases suggest that a “proceeding” describes virtually any manner in which an administrative agency proceeds to do its business. The District of Columbia Circuit, for example, has held that an investigation by the Inspector General of the Agency for International Development may qualify as a “proceeding” for purposes of §1505. In doing so, it rejected the notion “that §1505 applies only to adjudicatory or rule-making activities, and does not apply to wholly investigatory activity.”92 Moreover, proximity to an agency’s adjudicatory or rule-making activities, such as auditors working under the direction of an officer with adjudicatory authority, has been used to support a claim that an obstructed agency activity constitutes a proceeding.93 The courts seem to see comparable breadth in the congressional equivalent (“obstructing the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry” by Congress and its committees).94
91 United States v. Price, 951 F.2d 1028, 1031 (9th Cir. 1991), citing United States v. Sutton, 732 F.2d 1483, 1490 (10th Cir. 1984) and United States v. Laurins, 857 F.2d 529, 536-37 (9th Cir. 1988); see also United States v. Blackwell, 459 F.3d 739, 761-62 (6th Cir. 2006); United States v. Quattrone, 441 F.3d 153, 174 (2d Cir. 2006); United States v. Bhagat, 436 F.3d 1140, 1147 (9th Cir. 2006); United States v. Kay, 513 F.3d 432, 454 (5th Cir. 2007).
92 United States v. Kelley, 36 F.3d 1118, 1127 (D.C.Cir. 1994). The court also observed that “other courts have held that agency investigative activities are proceedings within the scope of [section] 1505. In those cases, the investigations typically have involved agencies with some adjudicative power, or with the power to enhance their investigations through the issuance of subpoenas or warrants,” id.
93 United States v. Quattrone, 441 F.3d 153, 175 (2d Cir. 2006)(“Quattrone’s Brief could be read as raising a distinction between the informal and formal stages of the SEC investigation and whether criminal liability for obstructing an agency ‘proceeding’ can only arise in the context of the latter. In our view, that argument comes up short”); United States v. Technic Services, Inc., 314 F.3d 1031, 1044 (9th Cir. 2002)(“However, the record shows that TSI’s conduct, while removing the asbestos at the pulp mill, was under investigation by the EPA at the relevant time ... An investigation into a possible violation of the Clean Air Act or Clean Water Act, which could lead to a civil or criminal proceedings is a kind of proceeding”); United States v. Leo, 941 F.2d 181, 198-99 (3d Cir. 1991)(“the government ... argues that the agency that Badolate obstructed acted under the direction of the Army’s contracting officer, who had the authority to make adjudications on behalf of the Defense Department.... Other courts of appeals have broadly construed the term ‘proceeding’ as that term is used in §1505. The Sixth Circuit, in United States v. Fruchtman, 421 F.2d 1019, 1021 (6th Cir. 1970) rejected the contention that the word ‘proceedings’ refers only to those steps before a federal agency that are judicial or administrative in nature. The Tenth Circuit, in United States v. Browning, Inc., 572 F.2d 720, 724 (10th Cir. 1978), wrote: ‘In sum, the term proceeding is not ... limited to something in the nature of a trial. The growth and expansion of agency activities have resulted in a meaning being given to proceeding which is more inclusive and which no longer limits itself to formal activities in a court of law. Rather, the investigation or search for the true facts ... is not to be ruled as a non-proceeding simply because it is preliminary to indictment and trial.’ See also ... Rice v. United States, 356 F.2d 709, 712 (8th Cir. 1966)(‘Proceedings before a governmental department or agency simply mean proceeding in the manner and form prescribed for conducting business before the department or agency ... ’). Given the broad meaning of the word ‘proceeding’ and the Defense Contract Audit Agency’s particular mission, we agree with the government that when Badolate obstructed Stern’s search for the true purchase order dates, Badolate obstructed a proceeding within the meaning of §1505”).
94 United States v. Mitchell, 877 F.2d 294, 300-301 (4th Cir. 1989)(“The question of whether a given congressional investigation is a ‘due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry’ for purposes of [section] 1505 can not be answered by a myopic focus on formality. Rather, it is properly answered by a careful examination of all the surrounding circumstances. If it is apparent that the investigation is a legitimate exercise of investigative authority by a congressional committee in an area within the committee’s purview, it should be protected by [section] 1505. While formal authorization is certainly a factor that weighs heavily in this determination, its presence or absence is not dispositive. To give [section 1505] the protective force it was intended, corrupt endeavors to influence congressional investigations must be proscribed even when they occur prior to formal committee authorization”).
Congressional Research Service 17
Obstruction of Congress
In the case of either congressional or administrative proceedings, §1505 condemns only that misconduct which is intended to obstruct the administrative proceedings or the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry.95 In order to overcome judicially-identified uncertainty as to the intent required,96 Congress added a definition of “corruptly” in 1996: “As used in §1505, the term ‘corruptly’ means acting with an improper purpose, personally or by influencing another, including making a false or misleading statement, or withholding, concealing, altering, or destroying a document or other information,” 18 U.S.C. 1515(b). Examples of the type of conduct that has been found obstructive vary.97
Section 1505 offenses are not RICO or money laundering predicate offenses.98 Section 1505 has neither separate conspiracy provision nor an explicit exterritorial jurisdiction provision. However, conspiracy to obstruct administrative or congressional proceedings may be prosecuted under 18 U.S.C. 371,99 and the courts would likely find that overseas violations of §1505 may be tried in this country.100 Moreover, the general aiding and abetting, accessory after the fact, and misprision statutes are likely to apply with equal force in the case of obstruction of an administrative or congressional proceeding.101

There is no such thing as Obstruction of Congress. There is obstruction of congressional and administrative proceedings which Mr. Trump has not done. If not allowing people in the administration to testify is what they are discussing, Congress needs to go back and haul every living president up on the same charges. More BS.
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      12-10-2019, 10:26 AM   #4102
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      12-10-2019, 10:36 AM   #4103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
-g
Isn't strange when a Dem President has similar economic growth numbers the economy is terrible, but when a Repub is Pres it is the "greatest ever". Isn't strange when the deficit only matters when a Dem is President?

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/...ts-great-again

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      12-10-2019, 10:45 AM   #4104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Clearly you didn't look it up.

Your opinions no longer matter. Enjoy your life.
I am familiar with what happened to WaMu - I work in the industry. What exactly is your point?

My opinions matter just as much as yours, in that they matter very little.

Why so bitter?
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      12-10-2019, 10:48 AM   #4105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Isn't strange when a Dem President has similar economic growth numbers the economy is terrible, but when a Repub is Pres it is the "greatest ever". Isn't strange when the deficit only matters when a Dem is President?

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/...ts-great-again
The national debt grew by 15% through February 11 of Clinton's first term and ended up growing by 36% by the end of the 2000 fiscal year, the final full fiscal year of his presidency.

The debt grew by 12% during Bush's first 752 days and grew by 75% when the 2008 fiscal year came to a close.

Under Obama's first two years and change, the national debt grew by 33%, and it grew by 84% by the end of the 2016 fiscal year.

The debt grew 10% in Trump's first 752 days and is projected to grow by 44% by the end of the 2024 fiscal year.


I'll Take Trump's over Obama's any day of the week. Also, the economy is BOOMING.
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      12-10-2019, 10:52 AM   #4106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
I am familiar with what happened to WaMu - I work in the industry. What exactly is your point?

My opinions matter just as much as yours, in that they matter very little.

Why so bitter?
Was WaMu, by any stretch of the imagination or regulatory strictures a "weak bank", as you say?
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      12-10-2019, 10:55 AM   #4107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
The national debt grew by 15% through February 11 of Clinton's first term and ended up growing by 36% by the end of the 2000 fiscal year, the final full fiscal year of his presidency.

The debt grew by 12% during Bush's first 752 days and grew by 75% when the 2008 fiscal year came to a close.

Under Obama's first two years and change, the national debt grew by 33%, and it grew by 84% by the end of the 2016 fiscal year.

The debt grew 10% in Trump's first 752 days and is projected to grow by 44% by the end of the 2024 fiscal year.


I'll Take Trump's over Obama's any day of the week. Also, the economy is BOOMING.
So was Obama’s and you guys said it sucked.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bus...rations-2019-9

It definitely helps when the previous President leaves you in much better shape and not with one of the biggest economic downturn in history. So 44% increase during a booming economy is acceptable to Republicans now?
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      12-10-2019, 10:58 AM   #4108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Was WaMu, by any stretch of the imagination or regulatory strictures a "weak bank", as you say?
No matter what I say, you're going to disagree with me. Why bother...

EDIT: I'll play ball

Quote:
By mid-September 2008, WaMu's share price had closed as low as $2.00. It had been worth over $30.00 in September 2007, and had briefly traded as high as $45 in the previous year. While WaMu publicly insisted it could stay independent, earlier in the month it had quietly hired Goldman Sachs to identify potential bidders. However, several deadlines passed without anyone submitting a bid. At the same time, WaMu suffered a massive run (mostly via electronic banking over the internet and wire transfer); customers pulled out $16.7 billion in deposits in a ten-day span.
lol, not weak at all...
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      12-10-2019, 11:07 AM   #4109
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Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Obstruction of justice is the impediment of governmental activities. There are a host of federal criminal laws that prohibit obstructions of justice. The six most general outlaw obstruction of judicial proceedings (18 U.S.C. 1503), witness tampering (18 U.S.C. 1512), witness retaliation (18 U.S.C. 1513), obstruction of congressional or administrative proceedings (18 U.S.C. 1505), conspiracy to defraud the United States (18 U.S.C. 371), and contempt (a creature of statute, rule and common law). All but Section 1503 cover congressional activities...

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34304.pdf

You're welcome.
Bump.....For MK.
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      12-10-2019, 11:28 AM   #4110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
And how did the Trump administration obstruct congressional or administrative proceedings? Did he turn off the electricity on the Hill or something?
I'm not doing all your homework for you. I've spoon-fed you something that would have taken you 2 mins to Google. You're on your own from here out.
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      12-10-2019, 11:39 AM   #4111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Obstruction of justice is the impediment of governmental activities. There are a host of federal criminal laws that prohibit obstructions of justice. The six most general outlaw obstruction of judicial proceedings (18 U.S.C. 1503), witness tampering (18 U.S.C. 1512), witness retaliation (18 U.S.C. 1513), obstruction of congressional or administrative proceedings (18 U.S.C. 1505), conspiracy to defraud the United States (18 U.S.C. 371), and contempt (a creature of statute, rule and common law). All but Section 1503 cover congressional activities...

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34304.pdf

You're welcome.
And how did the Trump administration obstruct congressional or administrative proceedings? Did he turn off the electricity on the Hill or something?
Probably has something to do with this Administrations wide application of executive privilege as it pertains to Congressional suponeas.

There's no reason to comply because the Administration believes that the Senate will never convict.
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      12-10-2019, 11:43 AM   #4112
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Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
I am familiar with what happened to WaMu - I work in the industry. What exactly is your point?

My opinions matter just as much as yours, in that they matter very little.

Why so bitter?
Was WaMu, by any stretch of the imagination or regulatory strictures a "weak bank", as you say?
Yes. They had insufficient capital for the amount of exposure to NegAm mtg buybacks and 2nd Mtgs.
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      12-10-2019, 11:51 AM   #4113
MKSixer
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Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
No matter what I say, you're going to disagree with me. Why bother...

EDIT: I'll play ball



lol, not weak at all...
And this was driven by what event?
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      12-10-2019, 11:56 AM   #4114
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
So was Obama’s and you guys said it sucked.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bus...rations-2019-9

It definitely helps when the previous President leaves you in much better shape and not with one of the biggest economic downturn in history. So 44% increase during a booming economy is acceptable to Republicans now?
That 44% by 2024 is 100% a guesstimate.

I will take Trump's 10% in the 1st two years vs Obama's 33% in the 1st two years:


Under Obama's first two years and change, the national debt grew by 33%, and it grew by 84% by the end of the 2016 fiscal year.

The debt grew 10% in Trump's first 752 days and is projected to grow by 44% by the end of the 2024 fiscal year.
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