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      01-22-2020, 10:42 AM   #771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
I'd argue no longer unique with the core components of an M, such as a closed deck block, air-to-water intercooler and mechanical water pump (key cooling components), and a locking differential... all lacking in any E90, F30, etc. It also has performance brake calipers, and stiffer track rated suspension... in which most M aficionados upgrade those variable parts anyways. Its not like with an M you're getting a Porsche GT3 or a McLaren out of the box and saying "well I can't do anything or it's moot to upgrade this car anyways..."

As we are constantly repeating ourselves. To finally end this thread and debate: you and I are both sitting in the BMW Welt boardroom over in Munich. Harald Krueger and Markus Flasch look over to us and say "Gentlemen, we need a car name or a moniker for the capable G20 B58 to compete with our chief rivals Mercedes' C43 and Audi's S division" ...to that you say what?
I think the "is" designation makes the most sense. Separates those cars from the base 3er or whatever and slots it in nicely below the true M cars.

For example, I had 2 different 135s (one N54, one N55) and they were great cars. But the 135is was a nice, incremental improvement over the base car, yet still distinguishable from the full on 1M.

It's easy, does the job, and doesn't water down the ///Moniker. Just my $.02...
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      01-22-2020, 10:56 AM   #772
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      01-22-2020, 11:16 AM   #773
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Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
I'd argue no longer unique with the core components of an M, such as a closed deck block, air-to-water intercooler and mechanical water pump (key cooling components), and a locking differential... all lacking in any E90, F30, etc. It also has performance brake calipers, and stiffer track rated suspension... in which most M aficionados upgrade those variable parts anyways. Its not like with an M you're getting a Porsche GT3 or a McLaren out of the box and saying "well I can't do anything or it's moot to upgrade this car anyways..."

As we are constantly repeating ourselves. To finally end this thread and debate: you and I are both sitting in the BMW Welt boardroom over in Munich. Harald Krueger and Markus Flasch look over to us and say "Gentlemen, we need a car name or a moniker for the capable G20 B58 to compete with our chief rivals Mercedes' C43 and Audi's S division" ...to that you say what?
I think the "is" designation makes the most sense. Separates those cars from the base 3er or whatever and slots it in nicely below the true M cars.

For example, I had 2 different 135s (one N54, one N55) and they were great cars. But the 135is was a nice, incremental improvement over the base car, yet still distinguishable from the full on 1M.

It's easy, does the job, and doesn't water down the ///Moniker. Just my $.02...
I liked the IS designations as well, although all it was a DCT (a big improvement) and minor trim details from a normal 335i.

Problem I see is the bigwigs at BMW GmbH probably see the IS designation —to the general consumer who are just looking at the badge— as step below the AMG43 and S5, already alienating themselves out of that market competition.

If they could come up with a better "M-lite" moniker, I think that would appeal to all parties. Like a MP3, MS3 or something like that (ML3 sounds too Merc).
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      01-22-2020, 11:23 AM   #774
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In the year 2020, with high crash standards yielding heavy cars, the lighter 4 cylinder 330i with M-Sport package, M suspension, M brakes and M LSD is the lightest and best balanced and is really the closest to an old school true M. So both you M340i and M3 fellas have it wrong.
Can even spec a 330 with an M-LSD?

BMW's heritage is 4cyl's, they just simply don't sound all that "interesting". They make good power, though, especially the B48.
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      01-22-2020, 11:32 AM   #775
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I'm not gonna lie. When I first got my M235i a few years back that was my first BMW and I was lured in by the M badge.

I was like, "bro, but the powers almost there! Almost as fast in a straight line!!".

When I got into the M3, was such a different beast. It's not even close.
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      01-22-2020, 11:50 AM   #776
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Can even spec a 330 with an M-LSD?

BMW's heritage is 4cyl's, they just simply don't sound all that "interesting". They make good power, though, especially the B48.
Yes, yes you can
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      01-22-2020, 12:23 PM   #777
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Yes, yes you can
That's wild, going to see if the CAD market gets the same love, if so I think I know what my next DD is going to be
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      01-22-2020, 01:15 PM   #778
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Originally Posted by cbertels View Post
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
M shrine boys foaming at mouth waiting for their "bespoke" G80 M3 to come out to save grace, even though they won't won't like the front end as long as the ass end has an M (and the registration) that's all that "M"atters.
Honestly, reading your posts, you come out as the biggest "fanboi" here. I am not sure what you have at stake, but you sure are intense about the topic.
+10,000%
Oh shitttt here comes the big bad ///M gang jumping on the single BMW advocate on this thread ✊
All you're advocating for is your car being more than it is and drinking the //Marketing cool-aid bud. After eleventy bagillion posts, we get it. The new 340 is the best thing from BMW since the E26.
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      01-22-2020, 01:29 PM   #779
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This thread is priceless! Sounds like Oprah was running the branding campaign....and u get an M and u get an M and u get an M! Everybody gets an M!! :
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      01-22-2020, 02:00 PM   #780
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I do t normally dip my toes in this water. @nicky dj, you sound like youíve wrenched in many cars before. I implore you put an F80 and new M340i in the air and start inspecting. There are many missing bits on the M340i that matter. Yes, Iíve driven both cars. The M340i is a ways off. It isnít as apparent in a straight like, but I suspect a road course would tell the story. M340i does have the necessary hardware to drag race comparably with an F8x car. I also have a 981 Cayman S which many think is like a GT4 because of the way it looks. There is a similar difference between Cayman S to Cayman GT4 as M340i to M3. The extra hardware makes a big difference on track.

The M Performance line is great for BMW and the consumer. Itís a lower trim level for folks who donít want or need an M for whatever reason. More people get to experience a fun, sporty automobile.
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      01-22-2020, 02:05 PM   #781
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To be since anything less than cs is not a full M or that cannot do 0-60mph in less than 3s. So the only cars worthy of changing my m240i to are m2cs, m4cs or m5.
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      01-22-2020, 02:39 PM   #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coxxoc View Post
I do t normally dip my toes in this water. @nicky dj, you sound like youíve wrenched in many cars before. I implore you put an F80 and new M340i in the air and start inspecting. There are many missing bits on the M340i that matter. Yes, Iíve driven both cars. The M340i is a ways off. It isnít as apparent in a straight like, but I suspect a road course would tell the story. M340i does have the necessary hardware to drag race comparably with an F8x car. I also have a 981 Cayman S which many think is like a GT4 because of the way it looks. There is a similar difference between Cayman S to Cayman GT4 as M340i to M3. The extra hardware makes a big difference on track.

The M Performance line is great for BMW and the consumer. Itís a lower trim level for folks who donít want or need an M for whatever reason. More people get to experience a fun, sporty automobile.
Agreed, and I think its a good thing.

As much as people dont want to hear it, BMW was losing the badging war to Audi and MB, I was so mad when Audi watered down the S class, at least in this case they are not watering down the full M.

Some people want 80% of an M just not the last part with the more jarring ride, much more expensive maintenance due to all those little differences in parts that add up. Especially if you never take your car on a track where the difference becomes apparent very quickly.

Its a good option. The only problem for BMW is they get more of a premium on M cars and have a possibility of cutting out their own legs by making the badging too close. Either that or they need to start really differentiating on the upper models.
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      01-22-2020, 02:40 PM   #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babaikram View Post
To be since anything less than cs is not a full M or that cannot do 0-60mph in less than 3s. So the only cars worthy of changing my m240i to are m2cs, m4cs or m5.
Won't be getting sub-3s 0-60 with a RWD M2cs or M4cs
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      01-22-2020, 03:11 PM   #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coxxoc View Post
I do t normally dip my toes in this water. @nicky dj, you sound like you've wrenched in many cars before. I implore you put an F80 and new M340i in the air and start inspecting. There are many missing bits on the M340i that matter. Yes, I've driven both cars. The M340i is a ways off. It isn't as apparent in a straight like, but I suspect a road course would tell the story. M340i does have the necessary hardware to drag race comparably with an F8x car. I also have a 981 Cayman S which many think is like a GT4 because of the way it looks. There is a similar difference between Cayman S to Cayman GT4 as M340i to M3. The extra hardware makes a big difference on track.

The M Performance line is great for BMW and the consumer. It's a lower trim level for folks who don't want or need an M for whatever reason. More people get to experience a fun, sporty automobile.
I'm not disputing anything you said, THIS HAS NEVER BEEN AN ARGUMENT THAT THE M340i IS AS GOOD OR EVEN WITH AN M.

All I've been ever saying is that with the new B58 closed deck system, M engineered coolant system, an M differential and a ZF8 transmission, this car is now a worthy car mechanically. This is factual.

I believe an M is better because it probably has heftier control arms, stiffer bushings, thicker sway bars, adaptive dampening coilovers, carbon fiber driveshaft, etc. I am just waiting for someone to tell me the specific differences (cause I don't know) between the cars and factual information instead of theorizing generalities.

And then you have the people saying "well I used to drive a M235i", and "I used to drive a 335i with the M Performance package" in which neither of these cars are comparable to the M340i just as much as the M340i is not comparable to the M, except for what I factually stated above. Does it make it the pinnacle M in performance? NO, does it make it M performance worthy (unlike the M235i and 335i PPK etc which are not), yes and BMW agrees.
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      01-22-2020, 03:17 PM   #785
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Found a great video BTW of an M3 driver versus a M340i driver:


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      01-22-2020, 04:47 PM   #786
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A funny little anecdote: Just last night at the gym, a friend of a friend told me he just picked up a left over 2018 "Full Alpina edition M5" from the local dealer (same dealership I bought my M2 from). So I texted my CA to confirm if the Alpina B5 ever came to the US for the G30 gen (it didn't), or whether or not they just recently sold any M5s). He confirmed for me no B5 in the US and that they haven't sold any M5s recently; let alone 2018 leftovers... what the guy actually picked up was an Alpine White M550.
Speaking of Alpina - curious what you ///M guys think about the Alpina division?
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      01-22-2020, 05:14 PM   #787
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babaikram View Post
To be since anything less than cs is not a full M or that cannot do 0-60mph in less than 3s. So the only cars worthy of changing my m240i to are m2cs, m4cs or m5.
Won't be getting sub-3s 0-60 with a RWD M2cs or M4cs
I understand m2cs and m4cs are not capable of sub 3s but M5 does, That was why I used 'OR'
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      01-22-2020, 05:32 PM   #788
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Speaking of Alpina - curious what you ///M guys think about the Alpina division?
Alpina is not a division of BMW. It is it's own company that modifies and tunes BMWs. They have an agreement with BMW to sell new Alpina-modified vehicles through BMW dealerships. This is similar to how Saleen or Roush operate with Ford (whereas SVT is a division of Ford). Alpina, Saleen, Roush are more make-specific tuners with sales agreements with the company's cars they tune.

BMW M is also it's own company but a subsidiary of BMW, and mostly (or used to mostly) build cars from the ground up with parts developed by their own engineers in their own facility. The M "division" (proper word is actually subsidiary) was created to build race cars FOR BMW... initially not even offering production cars. It evolved to make commuter cars because of homologation rules. The M badge was never intended to be used on cars that were anything but race cars. Then race cars first, street cars second, eventually they just decided soccer mom SUVs and rental cars get M badges too because the brand is "cool" or seemingly exclusive. Or once was.

It's hard to draw a direct comparison between Alpina and M as they serve different purposes. If BMW owned Alpina they'd have already whored that badge out too. Alpina, simply, isn't owned by BMW. They can't just use the logo.

Alpina has never been my cup of tea, although they build respectable modified BMWs.

Ask me how I feel about people putting Alpina wheels on a non-Alpina car then using that to justify rebadging the car as Alpina
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      01-22-2020, 05:39 PM   #789
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
Speaking of Alpina - curious what you ///M guys think about the Alpina division?
Alpina is not a division of BMW. It is it's own company that modifies and tunes BMWs. They have an agreement with BMW to sell new Alpina-modified vehicles through BMW dealerships. This is similar to how Saleen or Roush operate with Ford (whereas SVT is a division of Ford). Alpina, Saleen, Roush are more make-specific tuners with sales agreements with the company's cars they tune.

BMW M is also it's own company but a subsidiary of BMW, and mostly (or used to mostly) build cars from the ground up with parts developed by their own engineers in their own facility. The M "division" (proper word is actually subsidiary) was created to build race cars FOR BMW... initially not even offering production cars.

It's hard to draw a direct comparison as they serve different purposes. Alpina has never been my cup of tea, although they build respectable vehicles.

Ask me how I feel about people putting Alpina wheels on a non-Alpina car then using that to justify rebadging the car as Alpina
I know they are not owned under the BMW GmbH umbrella, in fact I know they build their own separate engines entirely. Just was curious about what people thought about the badge as a whole. Not my cup of tea either, but quite respectable especially in the BMW community. Candid explanation nonetheless.
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      01-22-2020, 05:42 PM   #790
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Speaking of Alpina - curious what you ///M guys think about the Alpina division?
All part of the BMW history of the M-cars.

I read that the decision to produce the E12 M535i was, at least partly, influenced by the fact Alpina were already making a performance version of the E12.

It is reported Jochen Neerspach who headed the Motorsport division at the time, had in mind a production equivalent of Alpina's bespoke version. The idea caught the imagination of the BMW management.

As they say, the rest is history.
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      01-22-2020, 06:29 PM   #791
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Speaking of Alpina - curious what you ///M guys think about the Alpina division?
All part of the BMW history of the M-cars.

I read that the decision to produce the E12 M535i was, at least partly, influenced by the fact Alpina were already making a performance version of the E12.

It is reported Jochen Neerspach who headed the Motorsport division at the time, had in mind a production equivalent of Alpina's bespoke version. The idea caught the imagination of the BMW management.

As they say, the rest is history.
That's awesome
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      01-22-2020, 07:40 PM   #792
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Can even spec a 330 with an M-LSD?

BMW's heritage is 4cyl's, they just simply don't sound all that "interesting". They make good power, though, especially the B48.
Yes, yes you can
WoW, this is hot!

Since all BMWs have the same electronically-controlled, mechanical LSD option, I honestly don't see the point of an official M car, other than the bragging rights - if that's your thing.

The one-wheel-peel was the only handicap that separated the standard BMW models from the M variants.

I wish I had a time machine, so I could take one back to to the 2008 model year and save a bunch of money, by not having to opt for an official M car, merely for this one, single option.

E92 335i with an LSD:



M235i with an LSD:

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