Having a hard time choosing between GT-R and M4

[Msizzle]

Originally Posted by Ketamine_Dart

Spot on. You can debate subjective things like looks and daily driveability, but there's no debating performance. Performance is an objective measure and if anyone thinks an M3/M4 is even close to the GTR in performance they are delusional. It's not even close. Although the GTR is almost an 8 year old platform, it STILL blows away the M3/M4 in ALL performance categories! It's NOT even close!!! I can't believe people here let the guy who said he was neck to neck with the GTR on a roll race get away with spewing such BS. Was the GTR towing a car during that race???? Lol

LOL so true my friend, I own an M6 and I'm the GM of a nissan dealership so I'm very familiar with both brands. To realistically pull on a gtr with a manual rwd car you need about 100whp more than that gtr, there are tons of videos of gtr's pounding on manual vette's,mustangs, and supras etc with more power. The guy that said he ran neck and neck giving up 100hp,shift time(dct vs manual), and traction (awd vs rwd) is a joker

[04cobra]

Originally Posted by Msizzle

LOL so true my friend, I own an M6 and I'm the GM of a nissan dealership so I'm very familiar with both brands. To realistically pull on a gtr with a manual rwd car you need about 100whp more than that gtr, there are tons of videos of gtr's pounding on manual vette's,mustangs, and supras etc with more power. The guy that said he ran neck and neck giving up 100hp,shift time(dct vs manual), and traction (awd vs rwd) is a joker

/shrug. Don't know what else to say. I'll film it in the summer. It was from a roll agaisnt a stock GTR. There are plenty of vids of a tune M beating a GTR from a roll, so why can't a stock one hang? Maybe the GTR was in the wrong gear, he had a 2nd person in the car. I have been racing for a loooong time and know how to drive a manual. Im not spewing BS at all. But believe what you will.

[Ketamine_Dart]

Originally Posted by 04cobra

/shrug. Don't know what else to say. I'll film it in the summer. It was from a roll agaisnt a stock GTR. There are plenty of vids of a tune M beating a GTR from a roll, so why can't a stock one hang? Maybe the GTR was in the wrong gear, he had a 2nd person in the car. I have been racing for a loooong time and know how to drive a manual. Im not spewing BS at all. But believe what you will.

Then obviously the GTR driver can't drive worth crap or don't know anything at all about paddle shifting in his GTR. All things equal, meaning equal driver abilities, I can 100% guarantee you the GTR will pull multiple car lengths on the M4. Either that or you are not telling us the truth about what's REALLY under the hood of your car.........which would be a moot point racing a "stock" GTR with a modified M4. I've driven both and the M4 has nowhere near the speed, traction, nor handling of the GTR. Again, this is non-debatable. Want to debate, debate looks, driver comfort, interior, etc......

Also, you would have to have 100% perfect shifting in your M4 to even have a chance in matching computer's shifting in a DCT. Do you really think you can shift better than a computer????? The only advantage you have is a slight weight advantage, but the GTR has a major HP, gearing, DCT shifting and traction advantage in its AWD system. It shouldn't even be a close race. Godzilla will trounce the M4 all day everyday

[Kidscollege$]

Originally Posted by Sparco

I happen to own both, a 16 manual M4 and a 15 Black edition. I got out of a beautiful Cayman GTS that I had built just 16 months ago. The acquisition of the M4 made me sour a bit on the Cayman which then led to the GTR purchase. They are NOT on the same performance level if both cars are in stock trim. The one thing Ive learned since purchasing the GTR is the amount of character the car has. I dont think its given enough credit for how it feels. Fit and finish is obviously better on the M as is the ride. GTR is harsh but livable and of course creaks, and clunks which is inherent in the vehicle. It is a total DUDE magnet. I have never owned a car that attracts so much attention. The purchase for me of the GTR was a true get it out of your system purchase but am really surprised how much I like it. I will be tracking both cars next month and am interested to see the differences between the two. Either way, both cars are drivers machines just in different ways.

Curious of your opinion of the Porsche Cayman GTS? I was contemplating that before I bought my M4...just wonder what could have been?

[Kidscollege$]

Originally Posted by KinoBoom

I know they are two different animals. I have an M4 on order but I recently got to see a GT-R and really liked it and started to lookup info about it and how it is built. The thing is a beast!
Some input from you guys is greatly appreciated!!!!

If your looking for a used one with low miles...

http://porscheofomaha.com/preowned/s...ition=preowned

[KinoBoom]

Originally Posted by Kidscollege$

If your looking for a used one with low miles...

http://porscheofomaha.com/preowned/s...ition=preowned

Thanks!
I am actually looking at a new 16 with like 1 mile on it for $2K less, will see how the deal works.

[04cobra]

Originally Posted by Ketamine_Dart

Then obviously the GTR driver can't drive worth crap or don't know anything at all about paddle shifting in his GTR. All things equal, meaning equal driver abilities, I can 100% guarantee you the GTR will pull multiple car lengths on the M4. Either that or you are not telling us the truth about what's REALLY under the hood of your car.........which would be a moot point racing a "stock" GTR with a modified M4. I've driven both and the M4 has nowhere near the speed, traction, nor handling of the GTR. Again, this is non-debatable. Want to debate, debate looks, driver comfort, interior, etc......

Also, you would have to have 100% perfect shifting in your M4 to even have a chance in matching computer's shifting in a DCT. Do you really think you can shift better than a computer????? The only advantage you have is a slight weight advantage, but the GTR has a major HP, gearing, DCT shifting and traction advantage in its AWD system. It shouldn't even be a close race. Godzilla will trounce the M4 all day everyday

So I'll ask why does a tune only M take a GTR from a roll but a stock M can't be dead even. A GTR stock is a one trick pony from a dig. From a roll they aren't that special. I cannot out shift a GTR, but stock for stock from a 40 mph roll in 70 degree weather we were dead even. His car with his extra passenger was probably 400-500 ish lbs heavier than mine. I have taken out many GTRs in my Cobra from a roll as well. Anything can happen on the street. On paper the GTR beats the M in all situations. But in this one (and we did 3-4 pulls) we were even. Believe what you will, but I am very happy with my STOCK M3.

[Rain49king]

I am not debating if GTR is faster than an M3/4 because it is but I will share my personal experience. A GTR has long been on my short list of cars to own but for some reason it never happened, I bought a 2008 Z06 2011 C63 back to a Z06 then to a 2015M4 now a 2016 M3. In between the last Z06 and the M4 I had a chance to drive a 2014 black edition GTR for a week. The car is very fast off the line as everyone has pointed out with the AWD there is not much that will get the jump on one of these things. Having said that I will have to say getting on it at speed is not that impressive to me I felt faster in other cars my Z06's for sure. To be fair I never raced anything I am strictly speaking from feel but the car felt a lil heavy and disconnected to me. The torque only felt good from a dig, the transmission was fast but brutal shifting. The car obviously has amazing grip and can power through curves but was so boring to drive IMO, it just had no feel it is just a point and shoot kinda car. My wife took one ride in the car with its squeaky brakes and rattles and refused to ever step foot in it again and this is after riding in the cars I previously mentioned. We have owned way more sports cars than I have listed and I have never seen her hate one until the GTR. I am not knocking the car it does some things extremely well as I stated but try and find a way to drive both and form your own opinion. For the record I don't think ///M cars are perfect but I find there short comings more tolerable for my taste.

[48Laws]

Last week, I played with a GT-R. I had 3 people including me in my car. All I have is Stage 1. The cars were dead even. The GT-R driver was so impressed he pulled next to me, rolled down his tinted window and we chatted. He looked very shocked. I was feeling myself. I had mad confidence that day. Lol. The car is still very intimidating. Especially at launch.

[MPerformance211]

Originally Posted by Rain49king

I am not debating if GTR is faster than an M3/4 because it is but I will share my personal experience. A GTR has long been on my short list of cars to own but for some reason it never happened, I bought a 2008 Z06 2011 C63 back to a Z06 then to a 2015M4 now a 2016 M3. In between the last Z06 and the M4 I had a chance to drive a 2014 black edition GTR for a week. The car is very fast off the line as everyone has pointed out with the AWD there is not much that will get the jump on one of these things. Having said that I will have to say getting on it at speed is not that impressive to me I felt faster in other cars my Z06's for sure. To be fair I never raced anything I am strictly speaking from feel but the car felt a lil heavy and disconnected to me. The torque only felt good from a dig, the transmission was fast but brutal shifting. The car obviously has amazing grip and can power through curves but was so boring to drive IMO, it just had no feel it is just a point and shoot kinda car. My wife took one ride in the car with its squeaky brakes and rattles and refused to ever step foot in it again and this is after riding in the cars I previously mentioned. We have owned way more sports cars than I have listed and I have never seen her hate one until the GTR. I am not knocking the car it does some things extremely well as I stated but try and find a way to drive both and form your own opinion. For the record I don't think ///M cars are perfect but I find there short comings more tolerable for my taste.

I've owned the same cars as you, along with a 2010 GTR, and you are spot on with your anlaysis and comments.

[M3guy3]

Originally Posted by Msizzle

i can't believe some you can say with a straight face that a m3/m4 has similar performance to a gtr!! Its literally not even close to the same planet when it comes to performance. And to say the gtr has nothing going for it other than 0-60 is just plain silly because the gtr has more lap records than it knows what to do with. On just about any track the gtr will be in the top 5 of any car at any price. It is also the measuring stick that all other cars are judged. Someone posted that his manual M ran neck and neck with a gtr, are you kidding me? Guys we can debate opinions but we can't debate facts! Tons of gtr's have gone 10's stock and they all trap 118-127 or so, an m3/m4 again can't sniff those times never mind a manual example

the GTR is a all numbers car. if it didnt have the crazy performance numbers for the price, not many people would even talk about it.

Where a M3 or M6 has performance and other things going for it.

my biggest problem with the GTR is that its a car from 2007. old tech, old styling, old interior etc... its hard to pay so much money (even used) for a car like that.

with all that said, i still would like to own a GTR one day. I just dont think they are worth the price right now.

[TahoeM3]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Last week, I played with a GT-R. I had 3 people including me in my car. All I have is Stage 1. The cars were dead even. The GT-R driver was so impressed he pulled next to me, rolled down his tinted window and we chatted. He looked very shocked. I was feeling myself. I had mad confidence that day. Lol. The car is still very intimidating. Especially at launch.

This seems surprising to me unless it was a pre-2012 stock GTR, which is a very rare thing. Mine is a 2011 with just a tune, mid pipe, and MPSS tires. With just that, I know from experience that I can outrun a new Z06 from a roll and in the turns. Ironically, your added weight may have helped since it puts weight on the rear wheels and helps traction, but still it's hard to imagine that could be enough to allow you to keep up with even a stock 2012+ GTR.

[48Laws]

It occurred the same day I took a shot of my new watch(see watch thread). Our little bought was inspiring. At no point did I feel I ran out of boost to hang with him. He caught up and I rolled down my window with my cigar in my mouth and waved my hand saying, "not today, my friend". Lol. We both laughed. His car was well kept and appeared to be a bit louder than usual. I also ran a C63 coupe (last Gen)and left it. I was alone on that run.

[shu5892001]

GTR is a beast on another level, but I would not daily it...

[Ketamine_Dart]

Lol, it's quite comical to hear M3/M4 owners trying to "justify" their car being just as good or a better performer than a GTR. I'm sure I can pull on a shitty driver of a Porsche 918 Spyder too, but I would never think that my car is just as fast or faster than that car. Street racers are a funny bunch

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Ketamine_Dart

Lol, it's quite comical to hear M3/M4 owners trying to "justify" their car being just as good or a better performer than a GTR. I'm sure I can pull on a shitty driver of a Porsche 918 Spyder too, but I would never think that my car is just as fast or faster than that car. Street racers are a funny bunch

Not one person is justifying anything. You're insulted by personal anecdotes? Or are you a rational person that realizes car performance embodies a number of variables. Do you also realize "fast" is subjective and ultimately what you consider better performance is like splitting pubic hairs? A few seconds faster? More g -forces? All fuzzy numbers that do very little in the universe of driving unless you're a sponsored driver earning millions a year.

[Rain49king]

Originally Posted by Ketamine_Dart

Lol, it's quite comical to hear M3/M4 owners trying to "justify" their car being just as good or a better performer than a GTR. I'm sure I can pull on a shitty driver of a Porsche 918 Spyder too, but I would never think that my car is just as fast or faster than that car. Street racers are a funny bunch

I didn't make one mention of a ///M car being faster than the GTR. I simply shared my perspective of what I didn't like about a GTR and why I wouldn't own one. It is a fast car no doubt but by no means is it the perfect car. I can easily see why people would choose an ///M over one and not just for practicality. As someone who has owned a ton of cars and driven even more I can tell you IMO you can buy a car for half the price of a GTR with a higher level of fun factor. Notice I said fun factor speed is only one element of the driving experience, if I wanted the fastest 1/4 mile car for under $100k it would be hard to over look a GTR but that's not important to me. For the record I have never been driving along a 50 mph an ran across a GTR to tell you what would happen if we decided to race but if your claiming it's a drastic difference at 40-60 MPH when you decide to WOT I doubt you have driven/owned either car.

BTW in a race from 40-60 MPH or higher a Z06 would kill Godzilla or the ///M.

[Ketamine_Dart]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Not one person is justifying anything. You're insulted by personal anecdotes? Or are you a rational person that realizes car performance embodies a number of variables. Do you also realize "fast" is subjective and ultimately what you consider better performance is like splitting pubic hairs? A few seconds faster? More g -forces? All fuzzy numbers that do very little in the universe of driving unless you're a sponsored driver earning millions a year.

Lol, seriously?? Put the GTR in automatic RRR mode, and mash the gas all the way down from a roll and watch it pull car lengths on the M4. It's not hard. There's no timing or driving skill involved at all. Unless guys in GTRs you raced were trying to paddle shift and screwing up the shifts badly or they're hauling 3 other NFL linebackers or towing a VW bug, you are NOT running neck and neck with a GTR. I don't care if you were a Pro NASCAR driver, you're NOT beating a GTR from a roll if your car is stock and the GTR driver does exactly what I just described. You obviously have never driven a GTR. Do me a favor, next time ask your friend who is the crappy driver in the GTR to drive your "stock" M3/M4 and you drive the GTR and put everything in RRR and mash the gas down for the whole roll race and let me know the results. If you don't understand how/why a GTR will obliterate the M3/M4 in any type of race, you are either in denial or don't understand anything about other cars at all except yours. I'm not going to try and explain this anymore. Good day

[Ketamine_Dart]

Originally Posted by Rain49king

I didn't make one mention of a ///M car being faster than the GTR. I simply shared my perspective of what I didn't like about a GTR and why I wouldn't own one. It is a fast car no doubt but by no means is it the perfect car. I can easily see why people would choose an ///M over one and not just for practicality. As someone who has owned a ton of cars and driven even more I can tell you IMO you can buy a car for half the price of a GTR with a higher level of fun factor. Notice I said fun factor speed is only one element of the driving experience, if I wanted the fastest 1/4 mile car for under $100k it would be hard to over look a GTR but that's not important to me. For the record I have never been driving along a 50 mph an ran across a GTR to tell you what would happen if we decided to race but if your claiming it's a drastic difference at 40-60 MPH when you decide to WOT I doubt you have driven/owned either car.

BTW in a race from 40-60 MPH or higher a Z06 would kill Godzilla or the ///M.

My post wasn't directed at you. I never claimed the GTR was perfect either. The GTR's flaws have been listed ad nauseum here and elsewhere. And I would agree with most of the flaws posted already. Fun factor, looks, feel, engagement and character of a car are all subjective. I'm the opposite of you, I have a shit-eating grin everytime I get into the GTR, accelerate on a freeway on-ramp, pass cars on the local streets and highway with such ease and quickness, and carving up mountain twisties like very few cars can, all are definite "fun" factors for me.

To answer your question, WOT from 40-60 between a GTR and M4 of course will be close, because of such a short distance btwn these 2 speeds. Even a race btwn a 918 Spyder and Honda Civic would be close. But what do you think the distances btwn the two cars would be as you hit 90, 120, 160, and so on.........????????? That's right, it would turn into multiple car lengths. Come on now, I'm not that naive! Don't be so presumptuous!! And yes, a C7 ZO6 will pull car lengths on Godzilla from a roll. However, a C6 ZO6, Godzilla would win.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Ketamine_Dart

Lol, seriously?? Put the GTR in automatic RRR mode, and mash the gas all the way down from a roll and watch it pull car lengths on the M4. It's not hard. There's no timing or driving skill involved at all. Unless guys in GTRs you raced were trying to paddle shift and screwing up the shifts badly or they're hauling 3 other NFL linebackers or towing a VW bug, you are NOT running neck and neck with a GTR. I don't care if you were a Pro NASCAR driver, you're NOT beating a GTR from a roll if your car is stock and the GTR driver does exactly what I just described. You obviously have never driven a GTR. Do me a favor, next time ask your friend who is the crappy driver in the GTR to drive your "stock" M3/M4 and you drive the GTR and put everything in RRR and mash the gas down for the whole roll race and let me know the results. If you don't understand how/why a GTR will obliterate the M3/M4 in any type of race, you are either in denial or don't understand anything about other cars at all except yours. I'm not going to try and explain this anymore. Good day

My bout with GT-R wasn't from a dig. I'm a driver. I've owned performance cars my entire life if that matters. I'm knee deep in the culture. I currently own a '15 F80 and a '15 911 GTS. I'm not delusional nor do I assume paper racing always translates to real world performance exactly the same every time. Moreover, I don't think your opinion qualifies as anything more than fodder. Are you an online instructor? Lol I honestly wish I knew the gentlemen in the GT-R. He seemed more of a sport than you. Cheers!

[mrjbb77]

Originally Posted by MPerformance211

I've owned the same cars as you, along with a 2010 GTR, and you are spot on with your anlaysis and comments.

Same here. Owned a '12. Felt like sh*t to drive. I wasn't impressed at all. The front became very dated for me, the rear looks so much better IMHO. However, the rattles, the unknown mechanical mishaps, the unrefined machinery that it is, mixed with horrible depreciation, and the stupid attention mostly from idiot males was more than enough to have me running towards another M again.

Plus, it's not very comfortable. I think the M4 beats it by far in the interior segment.

[Rain49king]

Originally Posted by Ketamine_Dart

My post wasn't directed at you. I never claimed the GTR was perfect either. The GTR's flaws have been listed ad nauseum here and elsewhere. And I would agree with most of the flaws posted already. Fun factor, looks, feel, engagement and character of a car are all subjective. I'm the opposite of you, I have a shit-eating grin everytime I get into the GTR, accelerate on a freeway on-ramp, pass cars on the local streets and highway with such ease and quickness, and carving up mountain twisties like very few cars can, all are definite "fun" factors for me.

To answer your question, WOT from 40-60 between a GTR and M4 of course will be close, because of such a short distance btwn these 2 speeds. Even a race btwn a 918 Spyder and Honda Civic would be close. But what do you think the distances btwn the two cars would be as you hit 90, 120, 160, and so on.........????????? That's right, it would turn into multiple car lengths. Come on now, I'm not that naive! Don't be so presumptuous!! And yes, a C7 ZO6 will pull car lengths on Godzilla from a roll. However, a C6 ZO6, Godzilla would win.

I think we can both agree there are many great cars under 100k including the GTR and ///M. Just because I chose one car and you enjoy another doesn't make either of us wrong. If one car was superior in all categories over the competition car sales would probably be pretty lopsided, instead performance segments get more competitive every year. I just took issue with your comments towards a guy posting that he was rolling down the street and ran even for an undisclosed distance up to an undisclosed speed with a GTR. Don't seem that far out of reach to me, I wouldn't automatically assume the guy in the GTR can't drive or OP was dreaming it up. I also didn't see anyone defending the fact that they own an ///M car, this is a car forum 90% of the conversations are car related. The way you came across made you seem like you where the one trying to justify your car. I am sure you genuinely enjoy your car as you should, discussing the performance of our $70,000 and up sports cars is probably the definition of first world problems.